What to do When Your Business Friendship Goes Bad

00:00:24 - Maelisa Hall
Welcome back to season two of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:28 - Amber Hawley
And I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:30 - Maelisa Hall
And today we are talking about when your bestie relationship goes bad.
So it's not all fun and games and not all relationships are perfect.

00:00:42 - Amber Hawley
Or meant to be.

00:00:44 - Maelisa Hall
Yes, yes. Or meant to be forever. And sometimes things happen. So we are going to talk about what you can do in those situations because it doesn't mean that you can't repair things. So how do you figure all that out? And the first thing is really going through, maybe it's time to pull back a little bit.
And Amber, you had a great way of framing some different options for when things aren't going well, maybe it's not a breaking off, but it's just pulling back.

00:01:16 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And it's, you know, whether it's a pulling back or growing apart or a fade away. Like there, I think this is when it's, it's one of those things where it's not, maybe it's not... Like, as good as it once was, you know, I like again. We've likened this to dating many times and so it's like some of the shinies come off of it.
Or, you know, you just find yourself really busy and not connecting as much. But there wasn't, there wasn't like a a breakdown per se, or a big fight or a conflict.

00:01:45 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't always have to be about a big conflict, right, right, you just. Yeah, fading.

00:01:50 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, you could be, yeah, growing apart. And there's so many reasons why. But so to go along with the dating analogies, I had a few different ideas around this. So there might be that time where you had this great best bestie relationship, you were really connected for a while, you know, you spent all your time together going out all the time, it was great, connecting feedback, all the whole nine yards, and then, you know, some crickets and some time passes.
But maybe you have a one night stand biz bestie. And that would be the person who all of that stuff happened and nothing bad had happened necessarily or nothing bad enough to taint you on the relationship. But you really only connect when you go to events.

00:02:36 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. So then you can meet up at a conference and have a blast and share the hotel room and help one another connect. And then when you go back, you don't really... Have to follow up or chat or there's no, right? Is she gonna call me tomorrow?

00:02:54 - Amber Hawley
There's no expectation that you would maintain the same level of contact as you first did in the beginning of the relationship. It really is just like kind of a one and done sort of. So yeah, it's just, yeah, you would only meet during those special times or circumstances or if you run into them, you can have fun all night with them.
But again, there was a reason like, that so much time and effort wasn't being put in. And that just could be sheer busyness, but it also could be that, you know, you're just not in the same space, same groove, right?

00:03:28 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, yeah. And that could be totally cool. There's nothing wrong with that kind of a relationship as long as you're both cool with it.

00:03:34 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And then the second part of the whole pulling back thing, I think is kind of like the booty call where you only call that person when you have a deep need, whatever that need may be.

00:03:52 - Maelisa Hall
So if it's like a major freak out with some kind of business thing or whatever, and then I'm like, oh, okay, now I'm going to reach out.

00:04:01 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Or it's like, again, you previously had a more connected relationship and you're not really talking and it's not because you're upset with each other. You're just busy doing your own thing. And then all of a sudden you're shit hits the fan with one of your employees or something really bad happens or something like that.
And you're like, oh, I just need to call and get this person's advice.

00:04:24 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. Yes. Or their feedback or maybe vent with that to them or whatever. Yes. And then you know that they can do the same for you. Right. But there's no expectation of like having a weekly meeting or doing regular check-ins or anything like that. Yeah.

00:04:39 - Amber Hawley
And, you know, in some ways one could say the booty call is, relationship can be kind of a usury type of relationship. And I could absolutely see this going that way. It could it could and that's upon you to have your boundaries both ways. And to know like, what are the expectations of it.
But I also think it's like, there are people in your life that you probably don't stay super connected with, but they would have your back when shit hits the fan.

00:05:07 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, for sure. Like I know. Yeah, I'm in my personal life, I can think of people like that where we don't, we might go months without talking, but then if something major happened, like they could call me anytime and I would be there to help them and vice versa.

00:05:21 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And so we leave it up to you to figure out if this feels like a usury situation, you need to have the boundary and you don't have to accept the booty call. They can call and you can say no.

00:05:33 - Maelisa Hall
That's true. And that's where I think, yeah, if you had someone who was like a drama queen and That's probably not a good fit for the booty call, right? Because then, you know, if they're calling you constantly with their drama, but then you're not reciprocating because you have a different level of need, that's when it might not be a good fit.

00:05:51 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. Or their drama just becomes all consuming and it's draining. It's okay to not take that call. It's okay. We just want to put that out there. So the last one, though, is friends with benefits. So how I see this one in the biz bestie scenario is you realize that this person you just really enjoy their company.
You like going out and having fun. You like having meals with them or going to the spa or, you know, whatever your hobby is, whatever it is that you do. And you just you enjoy spending time with this person. But when it comes to giving each other business support, it's not a good fit.
And there, again, are many reasons why it may not be a good fit. It could be that you have just vastly different ideas, aesthetics, beliefs, whatever, or you're in different stages of business.

There can be a lot of reasons why it wouldn't be a good fit. But I would say the friends with benefit is you maintain that friendship and it's more focused on that. And then every once in a while you get the benefit, like you could pick their brain or ask for feedback, right?

00:06:57 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. Yeah. And I could see this happening a lot with people. If you become biz besties early on in your businesses, like maybe you both start your businesses around the same time and are both kind of in that hustle or startup mode. And then three years later, you could both be in very different places and your business, like very different levels of pacing and, um, totally different levels of focus.
And maybe one person is kind of disillusioned, but one person is still really excited about their business. A million different things could happen in a few years. But maybe you still have a good friendship and you still have a good connection. So they are no longer that biz bestie quite so much, but they're more like a really good friend.

00:07:41 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And so those scenarios, or at least in that last scenario, it's kind of like, don't throw the bestie out with the bathwater.

00:07:48 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah.

00:07:49 - Amber Hawley
Yeah.

00:07:49 - Maelisa Hall
So your relationship just morphed a little bit. Yes.

00:07:52 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. Yeah. So those are kind of the, you know, when you grow apart, pull apart, whatever, all those different reasons. And again, we could go into why that might happen, but I think we'll leave it to you.

00:08:03 - Maelisa Hall
Well, and I think it's important to really highlight with those, like, a lot of those are just kind of natural things that happen and you don't have to overanalyze it or as long as you're okay with it, you don't have to have like some big, deep conversation about it and, and really go into it a whole lot.
If you're cool with how things are working out.

00:08:24 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Because again, I'm going to use an old adage of that friendship thing where they say it's for friendship is for a season or reason or a lifetime and not, Everyone is going to be a lifetime. That's just unrealistic. There's no way. There's so many variables in that.
But it doesn't mean that has to be bad or negative or toxic or, you know, now they're on the dead to me list or whatever. So, yeah, that's one thing to consider. There's the fade away. But there are those times where... It's, you know, something goes bad or sour, or there's some toxicity, or, you know, maybe some personality stuff emerges, whatever.
There could be lots of reasons where you realize, like, Oh, no, we need to break up.

00:09:08 - Maelisa Hall
Yes, so what would be? I mean, you kind of listed off a few different things, but maybe why? why would you need to actually break up versus just letting it fade away?

00:09:22 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, my therapist brain is in this whole qualification overload of, well, but if, and sometimes, but... Because, yeah, there's never going to be one black and white rule. Right. And sometimes you have to decide, only you can know it's time, right? There are those times where you go through that period or maybe something happened and there was some bruised egos or upset feelings or whatever, and you just need a little space and, you know...
people are going through things, maybe they're going through things personally, or you are. And again, there's like a heightened sensitivity that wouldn't normally be there. It's like understanding those kinds of things, you might take that step back in like in the first example, and then everything is able to be worked out.
And probably a conversation is actually had, sometimes not.

But there are those times where it's like that stuff happens, and then it just continues to happen, or it gets more extreme. And then you realize like, oh, no, this needs to end.

00:10:19 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and I feel like it's probably one of those times too where all relationships take work. So it's not a matter of like, oh, this is taking up my time or taking up my work. But like when you start to feel resentful about things like that, there's probably something deeper there.
There's a reason why you are unhappy about having to put in that work more than just, oh, I feel like I'm busy or I have so many things to do and I can't worry about this person.

00:10:47 - Amber Hawley
Mm-hmm. Yeah, which may or may not have anything to do with what they're actually doing. It just might be what's going on for you. One example of when that would probably happen is when one person is still wanting the same level of interaction and support and the other person, for whatever reason, is unable or unwilling to give it.

00:11:09 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, so you're just at very different levels and you can identify that. And that might be a tough conversation to have and a tough decision to make.

00:11:17 - Amber Hawley
Absolutely. But I think there's so much value in having that conversation. I mean, I think that's just respectful adult communication to begin with. Of course, it's totally uncomfortable and it would feel so much easier to avoid it. But that again, that's not really a mature thing would be to have that conversation.
Yeah.

00:11:36 - Maelisa Hall
Right. Yeah. And then you feel better because if you can end a relationship amicably, then a lot of us, I think you discover whatever your business world is. it's much smaller than you would originally anticipate. So you're always going to see people around or see people later.
And if you can, you know, genuinely wish someone well and see them again, you know, somewhere and not have like these horrible feelings, negative feelings that come up every time that you see them, that's always better. That's ideal.

00:12:08 - Amber Hawley
That's ideal. And Yeah, and it's because that feels so awkward. And in business communities, more so than regular friendships, that's so much more likely to happen, right?

00:12:17 - Maelisa Hall
Yes.

00:12:18 - Amber Hawley
But, you know, I'm sure like for many of the listeners out there, they have experienced this or someone they know has experienced this, the feeling of being ghosted. Because I have so many clients that talk about that. I've had that happen to me before and a long time ago with a friend and it sucks and it's just awful.
And it does leave so many, you know, so much unfinished business and just animosity and tension and it's just not good for anybody. So I really suggest that people have that conversation.

00:12:52 - Maelisa Hall
What are some tips for having that? Like, how do you actually broach this conversation?

00:12:57 - Amber Hawley
I would say you stay very self-focused. So focusing on what's going on for you and your needs, being mindful not to be blaming the other person. Even if they are a drama queen, you don't really have to be like, girl, you crazy. I can't be around you anymore.
You can just say that, kind of talk about what's going on in your life and that that's too much for you and that you know, that saying that this, it just doesn't seem like you guys are on the same path or same space. And, you know, you're really having to limit your time and focus on, you know, family or whatever it is that you want to say that feels kind, but truthful.
And you don't have to Say it in a way that's not direct, it could be.

I don't feel like this is necessarily a good fit and that can be hard to hear. But just saying like, I feel like, personality wise, we're just very different and it's not not bad, it's just different. And I feel like this I need to. Kind of, I wish you well, but I just really can't.
This doesn't work for me anymore.

00:14:05 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and I guess you could. try that pullback first, like have that conversation and maybe do some of these pullback tactics and test things out and then determine if you actually need to do the breakup. How would you know it's time to actually break up?
Because maybe you have that conversation and then some really great things happen, right? And you work through it.

00:14:27 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, that's the thing. Having that conversation also gives an opportunity to talk about, hey, I've been struggling because, you know, this keeps happening, or I keep noticing this, and it's really hard for me. And that kind of brings me down or whatever.
Or you could be the person who's feeling like the other person's pulling away and saying, hey, it just, I feel like you're pulling away. And I don't, I don't know, you know, if something happened, and I just kind of want to talk about it. Sometimes it's something like that.
And you know, where people can have like hurt feelings and really like the habit facilitating that conversation allows that repair to happen and they're able to go forward. But sometimes people are pulling away, not even intentionally, but because they're really busy.
And again, we've talked about this before of if your businesses are in different stages or in different paces, like you just don't have a lot of time and you have to be really thoughtful about how you utilize that time.

And, you know, if you're, you know, going a million miles an hour, and I don't mean busyness wise, but I'm just talking about pace. If you're going, you know, full speed ahead and the other person is kind of taking a step back and, you know, really kind of restructuring their focus with their business or their life, that's going to be a tough one to maintain a pretty connected relationship.
Yeah, it's going to be like incongruent. Yes, as far as business goes. And again, we're talking about business relationships. It's going to be hard to give that person a lot of time and energy because it's almost like, For that person who's really go, go, go.
First of all, they don't have a lot of time, and then, second of all, it's like it feels like it comes to a screeching halt. You know, like it's like a step back and not in like a you're less than kind of way, but you're just not the same pace. And, conversely, the person who is taking, like, restructuring their time.

They could also feel like they could feel bad afterwards, like they could feel, you know, like, oh, maybe I'm not doing enough, or I should feel better. And sometimes people will attribute that to the other person, like. they make me feel bad after talking to them.
And as a therapist, I would say, well, let's look at that. Is that really true? But it's also could be you're feeling those feelings because it's scary to be pulling back in your business or to be refocusing or restructuring. And so you might be having your own feelings come up.
So I just think that can go both ways.

00:16:41 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, because I could see the other two happening where if you're the person who's like, go, go, go, busy doing all these different things. And then you talk with someone and they're like, oh, yeah, well, I spent the morning like hanging out and decided not really to do any work today.
And, you know, we went to the beach and blah, blah, blah. And then every time you talk to them, you're feeling kind of resentful. Oh, my gosh, they have all this time or why aren't they doing that? You know, then it's really it has nothing to do with the other person.
They're just doing what they're doing. It has more to do with like, OK, maybe that's not a good fit because it's bringing up some stuff for you. And of course, you want to look at that, too. Like, why is that bringing up stuff for you, right? But it might be a little bit easier to have someone who's in a more similar pace.

00:17:26 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and in that example, it makes me think about moms, like working moms who feel like when they hear that, it's almost like, oh, you say you're prioritizing your family, so you're saying I don't. And when that person is clearly not, they're just talking about what they're doing for themselves.
Right. But you feel the guilt or you feel shamed or, or whatever. And whether that's coming from that person or not, that just isn't going to be a good fit. If it's like, there's nothing wrong with focusing on your work. And everybody's circumstances are different.
And everybody's life is different. And, you know, you may love your work, which I do. So it's just one of those things. But yeah, when there's that incongruency, maybe it's not the best fit.

00:18:13 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, so that's when you know, it's kind of time. To have that conversation. Do you think there are any things like any maybe red flags that would pop up that would be like, oh, maybe it's time to break this off. Like maybe you've had that conversation.
You're sort of in a trial period after that. Or you're on a break. What would be some things to look for where like, okay, yeah, we try to work it out. We've put in some effort here, but I think it's time to end this.

00:18:44 - Amber Hawley
So your question is when or how do you know?

00:18:47 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, like how do you know like, okay, I feel like where you could feel like, you know what, I put in the effort here and we tried it, but it's not working. So it's time to break it off.

00:18:58 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, I mean, again, I think that's so individual. And there are some people where it's just more clear cut. I think it's tough when... I think for sometimes it's so clear cut, like somebody's really is very toxic or extremely negative or a drama queen, and they always have something going on.
It's always drama, drama, drama, right? And there's never a balance or there's never growth or perspective, then those are a little more clear. I think it's tougher when you genuinely like somebody and you connect with them and then you have a history with them.
And then it just seems like you know, maybe it starts off a little unsupportive or a little more distance. And then it comes across as like judgmental statements or as it kind of grows. I think those are the harder ones because it's like a bad relationship where you're like, but he's so nice when we're alone.

You know, it's like that where, you know, yes, but those are the ones where I think it's tougher. I think it's tougher to know, like, has this season ended? is it time to move on? But I think that's such a deeply personal thing because only you can do the cost-benefit analysis because your values are going to determine what the cost is and what the benefit is.

00:20:10 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. So, and I guess if you're someone who's listening to this and you're really feeling like that pull, like there is a relationship where you need to have this conversation or you're thinking about someone like, oh yeah, like there's a specific person that's really popping up in your mind because of what we're talking about, then maybe that's the first step is to do that cost benefit analysis on your own and kind of think through like, what are my goals for this relationship, right?
Like, why am I in this relationship with this person? What do I value about the relationship? Why am I feeling any of these negative feelings? Like, what is it that's coming up? Are there certain circumstances? Was there something that happened? And really kind of evaluating that on your own so then you could feel comfortable knowing that how you need to address it and what would need to change or what would be your deal breakers, basically.

00:21:05 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And as you were talking, I mean, obviously we're talking more about the bestie relationship because when somebody is kind of even in that inner extended circle, you know, maybe the second layer of the circle, that's somebody where you can just set better boundaries and maybe, you Not invest a lot of time or energy into that person outside of whatever group activities or or whatnot.
But when it's your bestie, it's just a very different thing. And you know, if you're having those thoughts and you're feeling like, Okay? What are the goals of having this Biz bestie relationship? And if you identify it as a biz bestie relationship? And you sit down together to have that conversation, like, what is your hope in getting out of having a biz bestie?
Like, what? What is it that you're looking for?

Because that might even be the issue. You might be looking for completely different things. And so the one person who you might say is a drama queen, for them, all they're looking for is emotional support. And we had talked about that before in a different episode about the different types of things that you could get out of your bestie or support system relationships.
And so they might not, it's not that they're Always a drama queen, or necessarily. But it's that because they're using it for that, and so that may be an adjustment. It might be like, well, you need to get a therapist. And also, how can we structure this to be a win-win?
And you know, sometimes it's not worth the effort, sometimes it's too much, if there's not enough connection, if there's not enough. trust and support, then then it is time to move on.

But if there is, and there, there are all these good things, then maybe you try talking about and figure out what what that actually looks like. And are your are your goals compatible?

00:22:52 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and it makes me think of a couple weeks ago, the interview we did with Geraldine and Janine, how they talked about, they are basically like serving the same market and doing the same thing in the same city. And And how they had some difficult conversations very early on to avoid some of that potential conflict later on.
Like about what is their goal for hanging out together and how can they make sure they're not stepping on one another's toes. And I feel like that's a really great episode if you're looking for some tips on how to have some difficult conversations. Oh, for sure.

00:23:26 - Amber Hawley
They really do exemplify that. And I think... that's, you know, having those respectful adult communication conversations. I mean, that goes a long way, but I also know not everybody is capable of that. I know.

00:23:42 - Maelisa Hall
I was like, I was, we were so on the same page because I was just thinking like, you know what? But sometimes it can still just go really bad. Yeah. Like it doesn't mean it's going to end up all like with a handshake and we're like, okay, we're going to go our separate ways.
This was nice that we were able to end this amicably.

00:23:58 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Well, but by having those conversations, they were able to build a deeper trust and foundation. And I think the solidness of that relationship is really good, right? But at the same time, it could be that you have that conversation, but let's face it, there are a lot of people who lack, they're emotionally immature and they do not have the capacity to probably at that time, maybe ever, to have that kind of conversation because it'll only change if they recognize it and realize they need to do that.
And so, yeah, as I always say to my clients, this is how you could get the best possible outcome, but there are no guarantees because that other person, we don't control what the other person does. I mean, if I could do that, I would be really rich.

But I think it is worth the effort when you think somebody is. And I think if you do that and somebody responds so poorly, that's information. And that tells you that person ain't worth your time.

00:24:57 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And even I think a lesson I've learned personally and with business relationships too is sometimes you kind of stick your toe in the water with that conversation. And once you get that information, you don't have to do the whole... Deep conversation, yes, like this is a mistake I have made in the past.
Where I'm like, but I just feel like the injustice of not sharing all of this. And I'm like, No, okay, just step back and then pull away and know like myself, it's done, you know? Instead of creating a major conflict, like I think sometimes I have been very well intentioned and yet created more conflict than needed to be there.
I don't know if we're thinking about the same thing.

00:25:45 - Amber Hawley
We probably are because we both experienced this. I don't know that you necessarily created the conflict, but again, you can't control how someone else is going to receive something, even if you do it in the most respectful, kind, thoughtful way and are coming from a place of wondering and growth, they can still be lit on fire.
And there are just some people who are going to be lit on fire. And once they are lit, they just got to burn out. And so, like you said, though, it's like, you can give some feedback to somebody. And if they go off the rails, off some basic feedback, then you know, that person's not worth investing a really deep, meaningful conversation to say, yes, like, it's not me, it's you, like, you might as well just stop there.

00:26:26 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah.

00:26:27 - Amber Hawley
And I did say that right, by the way, I wasn't.

00:26:30 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, I think that's the thing. Yeah, is is knowing like, okay, it's not worth my mental energy of even continuing to try and end this on that nice adult rational conversation note, right? Yes. Sometimes you have to recognize it's not going to end well, and it's better to cut your losses.

00:26:53 - Amber Hawley
Yes.

00:26:54 - Maelisa Hall
Leave them with a little bye, Felicia.

00:26:57 - Amber Hawley
But hopefully you do... Take these relationships slowly in the beginning, and I think there's a lot of value in that. And even though we have talked about stories where people have kind of gone fast and furious. And it really worked out well. And we sort of did that in a way, too a little bit.
I mean, I still feel like we took our time, we did test things out. Yeah, because I think we're both very aware of if red flags have been coming up, like big ones, because there's always things. Maybe I don't remember any with you, but no, I don't remember any with you, but also I feel like we connect, like.

00:27:31 - Maelisa Hall
The first time we really connected was on a seven-day in-person retreat together.

00:27:35 - Amber Hawley
That's true.

00:27:36 - Maelisa Hall
I mean, that is a lot of actual time spent together. That was a lot of time together.

00:27:39 - Amber Hawley
So that's the thing. But we still, even in that conversation, we started building up. We didn't just go hot and heavy. And as soon as we met, we spent every day together and talked every day. Right, right. I mean, that came like a month later. But... But we pay attention to red flags.
And I think that that's what you should do and be thoughtful. And that doesn't mean be guarded and don't invest. Like, absolutely not. But when the red flags come up, use it as information. It doesn't have to be a deal breaker, but use it as information.
So to hopefully avoid having to go through this. But that being said, there are times where you are awesomely connected. The person for a season was an amazing biz bestie. And for various reasons that are countless examples we could probably come up with, it just is no longer a good fit.
And if you can have that conversation and part ways amicably and truly wish them well, that's the ideal.

But I would also say do that rather than stay in something and force something that isn't a good fit.

00:28:42 - Maelisa Hall
I think that's a good note to end this on.

00:28:44 - Amber Hawley
That's my parting note. Yeah. Hopefully this was helpful for you because I'm sure in any relationship there are going to be those, again, those things for a season, a reason, or a lifetime. And times where it's more of a struggle and times where it's in flow.
But hopefully you got some value out of this. We would love for you to head on over to our website, www.mybizbestie.com and subscribe so that you don't miss out on anything. Any of our amazing information. We'll send information about when podcasts are released and any special events or any kind of exciting news we may have to share.
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