Picture of Dora Rankin

If you’re feeling frustrated and discouraged because you can’t seem to close deals and build meaningful relationships with potential clients, then you are not alone! You may be spending hours cold calling and sending out generic emails, only to be met with radio silence or rejection. Instead of seeing your sales numbers grow, you find yourself constantly questioning your approach and doubting your abilities. But fear not, because there is a better way to master the sales process and achieve the confidence and effectiveness you desire.

In this episode, you will be able to:

  • Master the sales process to close deals with confidence and ease.
  • Discover the power of defining your sales and marketing strategies for business success.
  • Build strong relationships with your target audience and watch your sales skyrocket.
  • Unlock the secret to authentic and genuine connections that lead to loyal customers.
  • Develop a resilient mindset to overcome objections and achieve sales success.

About Dora Rankin:

As a master coach, she provides high level support for women who want to live their purpose and create wealth. Dora customizes her coaching for women in all stages of business, from high level corporate women starting consulting companies to venture backed startups. Her programs include money mindset, sales strategy, growth planning, capital planning and are delivered with genuine authenticity and a sincere desire to impact change.

You can learn more on Dora’s website, follow her on Instagram, and connect with her on LinkedIn.

Links & Resources:

Key Moments In This Episode:

00:00:00 – Introduction
00:02:00 – The Importance of Defining Sales and Marketing
00:05:09 – Understanding What Stopped Working
00:07:01 – Resolving the Issue
00:09:12 – Understanding the Meaning of Selling
00:16:05 – Finding Excitement and Authenticity
00:17:27 – Being Genuine vs. Forced
00:18:29 – Introversion and Sales Skills
00:20:43 – Overcoming Sales Challenges for Therapists
00:24:13 – Effective Chit Chat and Listening
00:30:39 – Starting from Somewhere
00:31:40 – The Tipping Point
00:32:57 – Overcoming Mindset Blocks
00:35:05 – The North Star
00:38:58 – Dealing with Life’s Challenges


[00:00:00] Amber Hawley: Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business and life despite their Type A ways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a dot com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional carefrontation.

[00:00:27] Amber Hawley: This is The Easily Distracted Entrepreneur. Your place to slay overwhelm, perfectionism, and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. Hello, hello, focus seekers. I cannot believe we’re coming up to the end of Q1 already. Time can seem to slip by. slip away, especially as most people are stretched thin and just trying to keep up with the day to day.

[00:00:54] Amber Hawley: So I have a question for you. How are you doing on the bigger goals you set for yourself for 2024? Have you started? Did you get a good start and maybe got busy with things? Well, if you did not get started, or if you haven’t accomplished any, or you’re feeling kind of stuck, or it kind of fell by the wayside, you would be in good company.

[00:01:17] Amber Hawley: It’s very common. It’s hard. It’s hard to work on bigger picture goals and projects in our businesses, especially if you’re doing it all on your own. So what if you not only didn’t have to do it alone, but I could also guarantee that you could be finished with that project by May 18th. Well, I have the most amazing solution.

[00:01:40] Amber Hawley: My longtime bestie, uh, my longtime biz bestie, Melissa McCaffrey of QA Prep and I are hosting another GSD retreat in May in Asheville, North Carolina. The GSD is the Get Shit Done Retreat. And we have a system and structure to ensure that you get that big project done. There are three pre work meetings and they start soon and they are invaluable.

[00:02:06] Amber Hawley: So if you’re interested in learning more about getting a major project done with ease and with amazing company in the beautiful Asheville, North Carolina area, then head on over to amberhawley.com retreat to get more information. In today’s episode, I speak to Dora Rankin, who is a master coach, and we discuss creating a sales process.

[00:02:29] Amber Hawley: I loved talking to Dora. She had some fantastic insights and hopefully, this will give you a little bit of hope and a new way to approach your sales process, which I know for many, it’s been a rough year. So taking a look at that. And how you’re bringing in clients in the door is always a good thing. Dora is also teaching a masterclass in the Inner Circle on April 2nd called The Heart Cell, The Difference Between Sales and Marketing.

[00:02:58] Amber Hawley: Yet another reason to join the Inner Circle as you get access to amazing guest speakers, in addition to quarterly goal planning, which by the way is happening next Friday, March 22nd. Weekly co working, group coaching, and more. To get more information about the inner circle, go ahead and visit amberholly.

[00:03:19] Amber Hawley: com forward slash inner circle. Hi, Dora. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, hello, hello. Well, I’m very excited to have this conversation with you today. We’ve had a few conversations, uh, recently because I joined your group and You are Well, I’m going to say I think when I think of you, I think of somebody who can help you kind of bust through mindset stuff and help people with sales.

[00:03:47] Amber Hawley: And notoriously, a lot of people struggle with sales or the feeling of being salesy, which you are not. But today we’re going to talk about the process or building a sales process. And maybe especially for the reluctant salesperson slash business owner. Right. Right.

[00:04:06] Dora Rankin: Isn’t that funny though, that you just said, when I think of you, I think of like busting through mindset and busting through sales, but you’re not salesy.

[00:04:15] Amber Hawley: I love that. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that’s where, you know, I know a few people like that and I love it. And I’m always I think we’re always needing well, not always, I think when there’s something that’s like at your edge, that’s a little bit hard for you or uncomfortable, constantly working on it and trying like, you know, learning from new people, getting different angles.

[00:04:39] Amber Hawley: I think it’s like incrementally up leveling our skills because, you know, even as business owners, you have to be able to sell like you have to be, there are certain things you just have to be able to do in order to have a business. And I know technically you can hire people, but at the end of the day, like we should be able to talk about what we do and get people excited about it.

[00:05:02] Amber Hawley: Right.

[00:05:03] Dora Rankin: We should, you know, as you’re saying that, I was like, what are the things that, that we can, I mean, we can pretty much offload almost everything except sales. And sales is the one thing that everyone wants to offload. As soon as possible. If not, like, let’s never do it. Yes, exactly. Let’s just skip across and not even ever do it.

[00:05:28] Dora Rankin: Yes.

[00:05:28] Amber Hawley: Well, my fantasy is like, Yeah, just be so awesome that everybody somehow magically learns your name and then tries to buy from you. I’m like, that’s my goal. And it turns out that doesn’t work that way, or it doesn’t work consistently, I should say. Um, so that’s the hard thing, right? Is like putting yourself out there, but in working with so many people, like, you know, I work with lots of different service providers.

[00:05:55] Amber Hawley: And I was saying to you before we started recording that in the last year, especially, I’ve talked to so many people who were doing really well, have been in business for years, and there’s just been such a shift in so many ways. And also, I think people have been pivoting. So it’s like they had confidence in where they were selling before or the work that they did.

[00:06:17] Amber Hawley: And as they pivot, sometimes it kind of like that confidence goes away for some reason, even though they’re just as skilled at whatever that pivot was. Right?

[00:06:28] Dora Rankin: Right. Yeah. As I was thinking about this podcast today and I was having some conversations with some clients, the subject kept coming up around This used to work.

[00:06:38] Dora Rankin: Why doesn’t it work anymore? This used to work. Why doesn’t it work anymore? And, and really the response that I had was like, let’s, let’s first like really go back to basics. Let’s go back to the basics of understanding the basics of what, what did you think was working to begin with? Like what was actually working?

[00:07:00] Dora Rankin: And the, the basic, the, the response, like what actually was working is that I was, Building relationships with my audience, my, my audience, my buyers, my customers, that, that’s what was working is that they, that, that whole infamous, like, no and trust factor that everyone talks about, but what stopped working was just the instrument that I may have been using to try to get that sale.

[00:07:32] Dora Rankin: So again, back to basic. When building out a sales process, before you can build out a sales process, you first need to define both define sales, define marketing. So when you say this stopped working, Dora, and I don’t know what stopped and we look at it and we find out that The instrument that you were using, whatever that channel or instrument was that stopped working, but your buyers are still there.

[00:08:00] Dora Rankin: Your audience is still there. Your people want to, to work with you. That’s didn’t stop working. So when we look at that definition. The what stopped working was the marketing channel. So marketing is, you know, my infamous, I say this all the time, but if you, if you take a look at the definition, the definition of marketing is how your people find you.

[00:08:26] Dora Rankin: And the definition of sales is how you find your people. So it is the sales is how am I going to go find you? And marketing is how are they going to find me? So when I hear it broke, then what I hear is you A, probably never had a sales process in the first place. Yeah. And B, that marketing channel of that was feeding you stopped working.

[00:08:54] Dora Rankin: So the good news is That you can resolve that really quickly when you put a sales process in place that works for you and a marketing channel that is also going to work for you. So that’s the great news is it’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s not, it’s not broke. You just haven’t, you know, You just haven’t started.

[00:09:17] Amber Hawley: Right. And I love that definition because I think so many people do, you know, convolute the two like sales and marketing. It’s like together. And maybe actually what I was just saying earlier, it’s like, maybe it’s my background in marketing that makes me want to be like, I want to build it and have them find me.

[00:09:34] Amber Hawley: That’s exactly it. Like, I just want to do marketing. I don’t want to do the sales part so much. I’ve actually changed my tune on that, but I feel again that like, that’s the part where people do get stuck. But I like that perspective because like you’re saying, I think a lot of people were feeling like either discouraged or hopeless or like, you know, um, I have talked to people who said, Well, people are just not spending money anymore.

[00:09:59] Amber Hawley: And I was like, well, is that true? And I said, well, I know it’s not true. Like I know it’s not true. So that’s a story you tell yourself. And when we do that, then all of a sudden we’re like, well, then there’s no point. Like why put any effort in, right? Right. So I like the messaging that you’re giving. It’s like, it gives it, there’s hopefulness there.

[00:10:17] Amber Hawley: It’s like, oh, well, this didn’t exist. And let’s change up how we’re putting stuff out

[00:10:23] Dora Rankin: there. Right. Right. So if the sales process didn’t exist. And I was leaning on marketing, and the marketing stopped working. Then it’s a shift of, well, what, what does it even mean to sell? Like, what does that even mean? If the marketing was working, and now the marketing is not working, what does it even mean to sell?

[00:10:41] Dora Rankin: So my simple, my simple explanation of how to get, how to get over that hump of, oof, sales, the whole thing just. Is something I want to run away from the if you look at it as okay, what if sales was just an opportunity for you to walk somebody down a path to find out if there’s an opportunity to solve their problem.

[00:11:09] Dora Rankin: What if you looked at sales as a relationship versus Okay. me convincing or pursuing or pressuring somebody into buying my product. And I think that’s what, where the big disconnect is. I don’t want to build out a sales process because I don’t like The way the whatever I see out there in the world right now, position sales.

[00:11:36] Dora Rankin: So let me stay inside marketing. Let me stay inside building out sales pages and building out funnels inside marketing. Um, so I can stay away from what potentially scares me. But if I am able to develop both, develop that skill set of relationship building based sales and develop a marketing that I feel comfortable with, then the floodgates will open.

[00:12:03] Dora Rankin: Then we’re, we, we see growth. That’s growth.

[00:12:06] Amber Hawley: Right. Yeah. And it’s, it’s interesting because like, even as you talked about it, You know, the, that idea of, well, one, I think people are feeling like, well, how do I do that with no pressure? Right? How do I build those relationships? Because it’s kind of, I see people do all or nothing.

[00:12:26] Amber Hawley: And I, I’ve done that for years. Like, I have an extensive network. I, I know the most amazing people, but I would never like talk about what I did or sell or anything or like, you know, even mention stuff. Right? Right. And when I started to then I sometimes I’m like, Oh God, like, what are they thinking? What are they going to think about me?

[00:12:42] Amber Hawley: You know that like you can get in your head and it’s like, well, okay, I, I probably need to get past that since, you know, I actually need my business to, you know, pay for my life and my family’s life and all of that. But it’s the, how do you do relationship marketing when you’re feeling so overwhelmed, like, Like, how do you connect with people in that way and stand out because I still think that’s like something, you know, I’m hearing from people and I know that’s probably a little bit both in the marketing side and on the sales side.

[00:13:13] Amber Hawley: It’s like, how do I stay front and center with somebody but not feel like I’m pressuring them? I don’t know if that makes sense.

[00:13:22] Dora Rankin: It does.

[00:13:23] Amber Hawley: There goes the dog. No, don’t worry. Yes, we’re gonna give a dog warning here that the dog actually agreed with my question and thought it was great.

[00:13:30] Dora Rankin: Okay, so I’d love for you and the audience when When you pose that question is how do I stand out right now, what we’re hearing in the marketplace is stand out with more marketing, more ads, more funnels, more audience, more newsletter, more posting.

[00:13:52] Dora Rankin: And I’d like to disrupt, disrupt that and tell you absolutely the complete opposite, which is what I’d like you to do is instead of. More, more, more social media, digital marketing. I’d like you to fall in love with your business again. And I’d like you to fall in love with your audience and who your consumer is, like, really, really fall in love with it.

[00:14:16] Dora Rankin: Um, because I was just talking about this earlier today, you know, like, remember back to the 80s, where you would turn on the TV and there would be commercials on the TV. Every five to ten minutes, there’d be a two or three minute commercial, and sometimes that commercial would grab your mom’s attention so quickly, and your mom would go and call on the phone and order whatever that was on the commercial, on the boob tube, on the TV back in the 80s, and the analogy is the same right now.

[00:14:48] Dora Rankin: Right now, instead of us turning on the TV, we’re We’re turning on the Instagram and we’re turning on the Facebook and we’re seeing ad after ad after ad after ad and it’s shiny and it’s exciting and we’re like, if we do this, then we will get that. And we’re not positioning ourselves as actually like, wait a second, this is my business that I’m building.

[00:15:09] Dora Rankin: This isn’t just a, let me put an offer out there and see if I can get enough people on an email newsletter and they’ll buy, they’ll buy my big course. You know, that’s, we’re actually building businesses and to build a business that is, is within your heart and what you love, that actually takes you building actual relationships with your people.

[00:15:31] Dora Rankin: Yeah. That human connection. Yeah. is a novelty. So when you’re building out your sales process, if you look at it as, wait a second, I’m not just pushing and selling. I’m truly, if I don’t share it with the world, if I don’t build these relationships, I’m doing a disservice because I’m not bringing myself to them.

[00:15:50] Dora Rankin: So that’s how you stand out. You stand out by not even, not even allowing that whole digital marketing to be the answer. It doesn’t have to be the answer. Yeah. It can be a piece, but it doesn’t have to be the answer.

[00:16:06] Amber Hawley: Which, I mean, I’m gonna guess some people out there are feeling like, well, that would be wonderful because they’re, they are feeling, like I work with people on, you know, sustainability building systems, like getting shit done, right?

[00:16:19] Amber Hawley: So if when they’re feeling overwhelmed, the idea of like, well, you don’t have to worry about building that funnel or building that thing. Just do the part that you’re good at and connects with people and you know, talk about the thing. I think that can feel very relieving. I will say the part where you said get excited about it.

[00:16:37] Amber Hawley: I think that was something like that I went through too earlier this year. Where I had kind of a rough year last year just lots of, you know, personal and professional things closing down my office by choice, but it still brought like there was still a lot of like grieving and letting go even though I was done with it years before.

[00:16:59] Amber Hawley: And so I was kind of in this funk a little bit, even though I still saw my clients and loved what I did. But I really got back to that thing of feeling excited, and I was like, Oh, I have figured it out. This shit will work. And when people would come on the discovery calls, like I wasn’t pushy, like you’re saying, now that I think about it.

[00:17:17] Amber Hawley: But I was like, I absolutely know this is the answer based on what you’re telling me. And, and then people joined and they have great experiences. And so like, I do think it’s that excitement. So I love that you said that, that like, to me, it was the thing. It was like, I got so, you know, friggin excited again because I’m like, this is it.

[00:17:37] Amber Hawley: I figured it out. Like, I’m so I’m happy. This is what I meant to do, you know? And when you feel that, your clients or your potential customers and clients fail that. Yeah,

[00:17:47] Dora Rankin: that’s called genuine authenticity. Being genuine and we’re sincere in our and we’re sincere in that as well versus the and I’ve walked down this path so many times like Well, if I do it this way, it’s supposed to get this result and it’s this forced and I’m not excited about it.

[00:18:09] Dora Rankin: I’m not in love with it. I’m just doing it because that’s what I see everybody else doing and I think it’s supposed to convert like it’s converting for everybody else, but that’s, it’s false. It’s just false.

[00:18:21] Amber Hawley: Do you have a sense of, you know, thinking about what you just said, like there’s this, there’s two sides of that coin.

[00:18:28] Amber Hawley: The one side is. And I agree with you. I’ve coached with many a person who has told me do XYZ. And I’m like, that doesn’t feel congruent. And I feel like it doesn’t feel good. So I might say uncomfortable, but I would say it doesn’t feel good. That incongruence was there versus there are times where it feels uncomfortable.

[00:18:47] Amber Hawley: And I’m like, I need to push myself, push my edge, like, you know, move past my, my own discomfort to grow. Is there, Like, for people out there, is there any way that you like see or can help people understand like what’s the difference?

[00:19:07] Dora Rankin: I think I’ll use my own personal experience because most people that, that, that have worked with me or know me, they think on the app, they think when they first meet me, Oh, oh my gosh, she, of course, she’s so good at sales.

[00:19:21] Dora Rankin: It comes to her naturally. She’s such an extrovert. She likes to, you know, be on stages and. That’s not the case. The case is I am actually very much an introvert. And I have to really prep myself before I go on any stage. I have to prep myself before I go into any group. And that everything, everything sales related has been a skill set that I have learned.

[00:19:47] Dora Rankin: And so when it comes to, well, I’m not comfortable. I want you to lean into courage and confidence. I want you to lean into, are you confident about you, the mindset? Are you, do you believe in your business? Do you know you’re the expert? And do you believe in your audience? It’s like that, that belief mechanism, um, that, that builds the confidence and the courage is if you believe in your business, then you’re in, you believe in your audience and you know that your clients are coming, then you’ll have the courage.

[00:20:18] Dora Rankin: To talk to them, because that’s all that sales is. It’s the art of conversation. And that’s the skill set that at the very beginning of this podcast, you’re like, we just can’t get around it. We can’t get around talking about what we do to the people that need what we have. And when we get really good at that skill set, then we’re able to convert.

[00:20:41] Dora Rankin: And really good at that skill set starts with, Can I do this authentically? Can I do it as me, genuine, sincere? And if you do that long enough, then you become what people like to call me, the sales queen that can sell ice to an Eskimo. But again, I am an introvert. So it’s not like I’m that showy salesperson.

[00:21:03] Dora Rankin: I don’t, that’s not

[00:21:04] Amber Hawley: me. Yeah. Yeah. So when I, my mind just went into places, that’s what happens. Sometimes in the neuro space, my brain went, and then I’m like, which path do I follow? And sometimes it’s like, ah, you’re not, you’re not on the path. Um, yeah. Cause I’m trying to think about like, Thinking about some of my clients, like, what would be, like, what would be the pushback or what would be the thing?

[00:21:31] Amber Hawley: I think it’s, like, here’s what it would be. This, it would, what I imagine, I mean, I’ve had the conversations with them, but also, like, can imagine where they’re at. Like, okay, I’m, like, a lot of therapists work with me. Obviously, being a therapist, I have a big network of therapists. And therapists are really good at connecting with other people.

[00:21:51] Amber Hawley: So theoretically, we should be fantastic salespeople. Yes. We have so much shit that comes up for us that stops us from feeling that confidence in that place, right? To feel, you know, whether that’s the imposter syndrome stuff, perfectionism, or this feeling of like, like I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be doing.

[00:22:12] Amber Hawley: Having a conversation and connecting to people, they do well, but what would you say to the people who do well at that, and I would say both introvert and extrovert, right, because we’re talking one on one conversations here, like this is, this is kind of, everybody can have this wheelhouse, what if it’s like, oh, I, I can do that, I can have the conversation, I can connect.

[00:22:33] Amber Hawley: And then again, I get to the point of, they never ask for the sale, they never talk about, kind of like, how they could help, or, oh, is that the issue? Like, how, in that part of the process of building it out, Like, how do you open up those conversations to, like, A, find out what they’re needing and B, like, actually let them know what you have going on?

[00:22:55] Amber Hawley: Yes.

[00:22:56] Dora Rankin: Uh, there’s tons to unpack there, but I’m going to try to keep it

[00:22:59] Amber Hawley: simple. I know. I was like, I just give you 15 questions.

[00:23:02] Dora Rankin: I’m going to try to keep it somewhat simple and, and again, give a little, I love to give like little stories as visuals. I hope your audience Oh, I love that. I always enjoy that, but I’ll give the The, um, the visual of, you know, going to, going to a networking event and you go to the networking event and your goal is to meet a whole bunch of people to make connections.

[00:23:26] Dora Rankin: But those networking events, they don’t turn into sales. That’s the point of saying they’re networking. We’re going to network and meet and connect, right? So what happens usually at networking events is you bring your QR code, you bring your, you bring your, your card and you have a little bit of chit chat.

[00:23:45] Dora Rankin: Um, you talk about, you talk about the weather and you exchange cards and you come home and you probably never talk to those people again. Maybe you’ll talk to one person, maybe you’ll schedule, um, a lunch with someone And that’s the, that’s where it goes. So picture the same type of environment, but instead of walking into that environment with the intent of just passing cards and talking about the weather, you’re actually poising it with real questions, questions that have intent, questions that go below the surface.

[00:24:24] Dora Rankin: So a fun activity you could even do with your coaching clients is Have them look over to their neighbor on Zoom or wherever they are and ask them to ask them a question that’s just surface like, how are you? What did you think of the weather today? And they’re not going to have any emotional reaction to that question.

[00:24:46] Dora Rankin: But if you ask them the same thing, like, how are you? And then you follow that, like, what do you think of the weather today? And then I’m, I’m Would love to know what has been going on in your business over the last three months or if you ask them an actual question that goes below the surface, then there becomes a feeling attached to it.

[00:25:10] Dora Rankin: That’s the feeling is where it’s at. So when you’re on a call with someone, and I have a whole long guide of this sales process stuff. But when you’re on a call, you’re networking, you’re in that conversation, when you have an opportunity to actually ask questions that are sincere, that you want to know more and it goes beyond the surfacey, I like to call it ineffective chitchat.

[00:25:36] Dora Rankin: Mm hmm. Then when you start finding things out. So, as a therapist, you know how to find things out. You know how to sit back and listen. So when you ask those questions and you sit back and listen and you start hearing, you start hearing the areas that you know you can solve, then you have an opportunity at the end of that call.

[00:25:57] Dora Rankin: to ask permission to share with them. Hey, I heard all of these things while we were talking. Thank you so much for answering all of them. Can I share a little bit about how I think I could support you? You ask for that permission and then doesn’t even feel like you’re pitching or you’re selling at the end.

[00:26:14] Dora Rankin: Because again, if you don’t share, you’re literally doing them a disservice by not sharing with them how you can solve their problem. Now on the other end of that, complete other end of that. If you don’t get there, if you don’t know the questions to ask, or you go straight from how’s the weather to hey, did you know I have this and I think it’d be really awesome for you and you should buy it, that, that right there, you, you’ve never made them feel anything.

[00:26:43] Dora Rankin: You just went from here’s the weather to buy my thing. So what are you doing during that conversation to make them feel something and, and, and in, in my coaching, it goes way deeper into like, how do you get them to feel pain, right? But as therapists, yeah, you should, you should, like, quote unquote, you should, but it’s a matter of once I find out all that information, how do I, how do I get a, A mutual agreement to then share with them what what I can do and how I can help them instead of going from whether to let me sell something to you.

[00:27:17] Dora Rankin: Yes,

[00:27:18] Amber Hawley: no, I love that. And I think we’ve all experienced that that person that they have that agenda of. It does feel like they don’t even, and sometimes, well, it’s like, I think about all of these pitches I get that they’re kind of ruining my, um, DMs. Yes. Because now I’m being trained to ignore all DMs. So even when, like, people I want to hear from or connected to, I’m, I’m trained to ignore all of them because it’s just this constant pitch fest.

[00:27:46] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Where they don’t even, like, there’s not even like a, I’m not sure if this would fit for you. It’s more like. I can help you get more clients and this and that. And I’m like, well, you have no idea. Like, I’m thinking especially with my therapy practice. Like, I’m doing great. I have more clients. That wasn’t the problem.

[00:28:04] Amber Hawley: Like, more clients that I could do with. It’s, it was like a different problem. Hiring, right, was the issue at the time. And so, I’m just thinking, like, that’s how it feels. There’s such a disconnect and it’s like, you don’t know me from Adam. So, like, this was useless and now you’re irritating to me. And so, there’s a bad feeling.

[00:28:21] Amber Hawley: It’s not good.

[00:28:22] Dora Rankin: I get those all the time, too. So, it’s like, It’s again, it’s like, it’s the times, you know, goes back to the time. So, you know, in the 90s and in the 2000s, it was, oh my gosh, if I get another telemarketing call, I’m going to scream, stop calling me. You’re so annoying and you’re hanging up on them.

[00:28:41] Dora Rankin: And now it’s just converted from the cold call phone telemarketer to the cold DM telemarketer. And truly, at the end of the day, we’re always going to have that. So it’s like, just how do you want to show up in your business? You can either choose to show up as that sleazy cold call DM, or you can choose to show up as someone who truly wants to get to know their potential client and only pitch to them if you can solve their problem.

[00:29:10] Dora Rankin: And still, You still, no matter what, no matter which you choose, you’re still going to have moments where people are going to reject you, say no to you, and even slam the door in your face. And that is part of building a business. That’s just being okay with that type of rejection.

[00:29:29] Amber Hawley: Yeah, no, I like that. I like that.

[00:29:32] Amber Hawley: Uh, well, normalizing it, you know, like just giving, I know, I feel like I’ve talked about this before, but, and I know it was, I got a reframe for it, but of course right now it’s not coming to me. So I think of like back in the day when I was being taught to sell. So I did retail, like, you know, very young, did retail.

[00:29:51] Amber Hawley: I was fantastic at it. I loved it. Like, you know, I was making like three, four dollars an hour. Where did you work in retail? Oh, so many places. Like, The Limited, which I don’t even think exists anymore. I worked at a hair salon. I worked at Bombay Company, a jewelry place. Like, I worked Simultaneously. Oh, and then my favorite was Glamour Shots, like, in the malls of America.

[00:30:16] Amber Hawley: Yes! Do

[00:30:17] Dora Rankin: you remember, do you remember the store called Merry Go Round that had Daisy Dukes and IOU sweatshirts and Zeke Avericis? Yes! That’s where I worked. I worked at merry go round. I used to use

[00:30:31] Amber Hawley: sweatshirts. And it’s so funny because when I think back, I mean, I just loved it. I never was, I would never lie to people or be like, Oh, that looks great on you if I thought it looked bad.

[00:30:42] Amber Hawley: Like I was, I was pretty, I was a very ethical person, but I loved selling and I had enthusiasm and it was great because it just, it didn’t, it felt like. They were coming in there to be sold to, right? And so that felt very different. And I think sometimes we get in our head about, Like in business, and then we have those experiences with the DMs and it’s like, well, how do I do that?

[00:31:05] Amber Hawley: How do I, how do I reach out? How do I connect to people on a level that’s going to be, that’s going to build sustainability, right? Because obviously, as we grow, when we have teams, we need more clients. We have to have more people to sustain that. And so it’s like, I’m, you know, thinking about that, I think that’s where people start to feel overwhelmed of like, Oh my God, I’m always going to have to be doing this.

[00:31:29] Amber Hawley: And that feels like overwhelming and scary,

[00:31:32] Dora Rankin: right? It does. But we all have to start somewhere. So we all have to start somewhere. So there, the day will come, I promise you, the day will come where that flywheel will activate. And you won’t have to do as much outbound work and inbound work and figuring out the marketing, figuring out the sales.

[00:31:52] Dora Rankin: But you have to start somewhere. There will, but there will be a day where it’s like, Oh, everything is now, everything is now going automatic. But if we don’t start, we’re not going to be able to scale. Right.

[00:32:08] Amber Hawley: Right. Yeah. No, I think it’s helpful for people to hear that, you know, that it’s, I think sometimes what happens is.

[00:32:15] Amber Hawley: And this is what overwhelms us. We get too far down the road. Like we need to look big picture, but then we have to pull it back to what’s our next step. What’s in front of us. You know, like I do believe in having that bigger picture, but yeah, then we go too far down and think, Oh my gosh, like I’m going to have to do this and I’m going to have to get this many people.

[00:32:34] Amber Hawley: And so it can be really overwhelming, but I like that idea of like, okay, just start. I do agree. I think there’s a tipping point, right? I mean, you see this if you watch other people’s businesses, because I love, I love. You know, paying attention to that kind of stuff and seeing and it’s like, yeah, there becomes a point where you’re, you know, if you’re new and you’re not, you know, you haven’t really worked on your mindset, you might be like, Oh, it must be nice.

[00:32:56] Amber Hawley: So easy for them without acknowledging that they also had all of that work at one time that they were starting from somewhere as well.

[00:33:05] Dora Rankin: Right? Yeah. Yes. So our chapter. You know, it’s our chapter two, and it’s their chapter 24, um, and they started, started somewhere, started somewhere as well. Yeah. I go through that as well.

[00:33:19] Dora Rankin: I go through the, well, you know, I wonder if I’m ever going to get just, you know, Just be able to do this one thing. So I don’t have to do any of the rest of the rest of the stuff. And I’m in year three. I’m not in year. I’m not in year five or 10 yet. So, but I’ve built out other businesses and I know this is the process, right?

[00:33:39] Dora Rankin: This is the process. It’s going to be temporary. It’s going to scale. Things are going to change. Um, and that was, that’s the other thing. I don’t think we stick it out long enough either. I think we, okay. We, one, we don’t, we don’t, we, hey, like, we’re having this conversation. We don’t like sales, so we don’t even want to start it.

[00:33:58] Dora Rankin: But then when we do, it’s, we don’t stick it out long enough to say this isn’t working. We’re like, it’s not working and I don’t like it, so let’s just stop all together. So, and then we look over to that other person and say, well, why is it working for them so well? It’s because we. Started, stopped really quickly, and now are comparing ourselves to someone else.

[00:34:21] Amber Hawley: Exactly. Well, and this is kind of, I mean, I think it’s a overall business problem, but especially for us NeuroSpicy people, then we get the shiny object, right? So then it’s like, Yeah, it’s like, Oh, that didn’t work. And the anxiety comes up. And rather than like sitting with that, or like you said, like, how do you, how are you even determining why that something is working or not?

[00:34:45] Amber Hawley: Like, what is, what is the data points that you’re using that tell you that it’s not working? Right. So that’s where, like, sometimes, you know, they’ll, they’ll say that and I’ll be talking to somebody and it’s like, Oh, I did this like three times or four times, you’re like, well, like, I mean, I’m not a sales expert, but I just from a research standpoint, like if our data pool is like three people, that’s not really a very adequate way to analyze whether something works or not.

[00:35:14] Amber Hawley: Yeah.

[00:35:16] Dora Rankin: So true.

[00:35:17] Amber Hawley: Yeah. No, I like that. So figuring out, we have to be connecting with people. We have to be excited about our business. We have to be having conversations, making people feel things, not just being surfaced and sticking with it. What are the other pieces that you would say, like, are kind of part of that sales process?

[00:35:41] Dora Rankin: Yeah, so your sales process is only as good as the mindset that’s leading it. And your overall growth strategy for your business is only as good as the mindset that’s leading it. So that’s what I have to say.

[00:35:57] Amber Hawley: You’re like, I’m so sorry. That’s it.

[00:36:02] Dora Rankin: It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s true. That’s why, that’s why people have coaches.

[00:36:06] Dora Rankin: That’s why people have mentors and leaders. It’s all because we, we aren’t able to guide ourselves through this, especially in areas of skillset that we’re not familiar with. So our mindset’s going to tell us, um, no. And then just know it’s going to keep us stuck. It’s going to keep us blocked. Right. So that’s why the coaches and the mentors and the guidance, the therapist, right?

[00:36:33] Dora Rankin: That’s why we’re here to, to help with that. Let’s overcome that. Let’s, we may not even overcome it. That’s just practice. That’s just practice. And then we can move into, to building out that sales process and building out that strategy that’s going to work to scale your business.

[00:36:51] Amber Hawley: Okay. Yeah. I mean, I agree.

[00:36:54] Amber Hawley: It’s, you know, anybody who’s doing business consulting or coaching, like you’re going to see you have those clients who come in and they’re really open. They might still be just as scared or have those blocks, but they’re willing to kind of like push or take those steps, those uncomfortable steps. And then you have people who are like, that’s not going to work.

[00:37:13] Amber Hawley: Like that doesn’t work for me. And they’re like, yeah, I’m done. Okay. I’ve got to go. Like move on to something else, right? Yes.

[00:37:20] Dora Rankin: Yes. Very true. The North Star, the, you know, the, we talk a lot about the North Star with, with my clients and I’m sure yours as well, and this, this North Star of like, what’s What’s the end goal?

[00:37:35] Dora Rankin: Like what, what do you actually want to, to see? And so if we’re in business and we’ve left corporate and we’re running our own businesses and we want ease and comfort and freedom and freedom to do what we want and enough money to do all those things that like it boils down to do we know how to build our businesses?

[00:37:55] Dora Rankin: And are we comfortable getting out there to do that? Are we really comfortable getting out there to do that? And it doesn’t, and I don’t mean getting out there posting and reeling and living. I mean truly getting out there and talking to our, to, to our potential buyers.

[00:38:12] Amber Hawley: Okay. Yeah, no, exactly. That’s, I mean, that’s kind of the thing that I do see, and I’ve been guilty of it too.

[00:38:20] Amber Hawley: When, when you’re in those, Especially if you’re going through stuff in life, you know, if you’re in those tender places and you’re like, I just don’t have it in me to like put myself out there right now. And then, but I think ultimately the people if you have to at some point, otherwise. It’s nothing changes.

[00:38:37] Amber Hawley: Nothing changes. Nothing changes. Right.

[00:38:40] Dora Rankin: The, the, I have a client that and you may need to pause, right? You know, I have a client that did need to pause because she was late stage, um, late stage diagnosed ADHD and, and she had to work through understanding how she lived her entire life up until that point.

[00:39:00] Dora Rankin: And then over, you know, that way, it was, You have, she prioritized her well being and she prioritized, like, how do I do this before building out a sales process? So

[00:39:13] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. And I mean, I’m, you know, I’m sure you have people too that I have clients going through like major health things or You know, divorces or, uh, you know, like lost death, all kinds of, like, all kinds of things are happening constantly.

[00:39:32] Amber Hawley: Unfortunately, life just keeps lifing. And so, like, sometimes you, sometimes it is taking that step back, but, but I think it’s like understanding eventually, like, you still have to deal with those uncomfortable things. in your business to really truly grow it, right?

[00:39:51] Dora Rankin: Yeah, I

[00:39:53] Amber Hawley: agree. So for, you know, I want to be mindful of time.

[00:39:57] Amber Hawley: It went really fast. Actually, I just all of a sudden like looked up and I was like, Oh my gosh, we’re all like almost out of time. If you had advice for somebody, like, Okay, how, I want to connect with people and obviously they need to know their ideal client. They have to, you know, understand where they are, but do you have a piece of advice or suggestion on like, where do you start with that?

[00:40:23] Amber Hawley: Like what is, where do you, what is the first thing you do or what is something that you do to ensure that you’re continually building that connection or working? towards building those connections. Yeah,

[00:40:35] Dora Rankin: I, you know, I just wrote some things down as you were asking that and I just kept writing the same two words down and it’s literally leading and building your business from the heart and and that’s something that I’m writing.

[00:40:50] Dora Rankin: The the book that I have coming out in 2024 is all about the heart cell.

[00:40:55] Amber Hawley: I think your dogs like stuff with hearts. They’re agreeing. It is about

[00:41:01] Dora Rankin: hearts. Um, no, it’s like that time of day where everyone shows up at the house. Yes, that’s the biggest piece of advice. Is that, that’s why I say fall in love with your business because when you do, you will then lead from the heart.

[00:41:18] Dora Rankin: And so selling doesn’t even become a feeling of sales. It’s a feeling of love. It’s a feeling of heart. Um, and it makes it so much easier.

[00:41:26] Amber Hawley: I love that. I love it. Well, if people want to find out more, follow you or a gentle stalking, as I like to say, um, and they would like to connect, where is the best place to find you?

[00:41:40] Dora Rankin: Yeah, you can find me at all the places. I’m Dora Rankin. R A N K I N. Um, and then I have a couple of businesses. I have GypsySoulCoaching. com and the Women Who Soar Collective. I’m primarily working as a full, a full suite business coach. And then as you heard, focusing a lot on sales and marketing.

[00:41:59] Amber Hawley: Wonderful. Wonderful. And all of your information, all of Dora’s information will be in the show notes, all the links to all the places. And, uh, yeah, I just want to thank you for having this conversation and, you know, I’m guessing somebody out there is hearing this and it’s like, there’s like a sigh of relief of like permission to not do all the things and to reel it back and to really focus, focus on doing things in a more aligned, heartfelt way.

[00:42:27] Amber Hawley: So I love that.

[00:42:28] Dora Rankin: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. This was a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

[00:42:32] Amber Hawley: Yes. Thank you.


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