Stop Avoiding the Ask and Start Selling with Annie Ruggles
Without sales, you don’t have a business. But the resistance to selling is fierce among small business owners, particularly in the helping professions. (I’m looking at you, therapists and coaches!)

There’s too much frantic posting on social media, trying to be everywhere, and creating content for the sake of creating content. Where’s the ask? Where’s the solving of your audience’s problems?

This week on the podcast, my friend Annie Ruggles is sharing her energy and insight into pulling back and being more intentional with your time on social media. We talk about pushing your comfort zone, letting go of bad sales practices, creating sustainability in our marketing, re-aligning our expectations, and what we should be asking for when we create content.

We don’t have energy for everything and we shouldn’t try. Tune in now!

About Annie Ruggles:
For over a decade, Annie P. has harnessed her Hulk-like disdain for hard-sales, tacky self-promotion, and overly competitive sleazeballs as inspiration to help people find better ways to grow their small business. As Founder of The Non-Sleazy Sales Academy, she’s guided hundreds of people toward making deeper connections, lasting impressions, and friendlier, more lucrative transactions and conversations. Her pride and joy is her podcast, Too Legitimate to Quit: Instantly Actionable Small Business Strategies with a Pop Culture Spin. Visit her website and follow her on Instagram.

Links & Resources:

Time Stamps:

[3:45] – Annie’s super special secret power
[4:57] – There’s a premium to selling with authenticity
[8:08] – Market in a way that loses the fluff
[9:01] – Have fun in marketing but overall people are looking to have problems solved
[10:53] – People are having fun with Reels and they’re loosening up a bit
[13:32] – Amber is qualified as a dance party starter
[17:03] – Know, like, trust is important; it’s just incomplete
[19:16] – Spray and pray marketing – all the things you’re doing to increase brand awareness is an experiment but you have to do it in a controlled way
[21:33] – Instead of trying all the methods of marketing, try all the methods of asking
[22:55] – The difference between feeling like you have to do all the things and thoughtfully choosing to experiment
[23:28] – Podcasting is a long game; you have to give things time
[26:02] – Asking in all the ways we can ask
[27:02] – Find your own sales voice
[30:01] – Sales avoidance in a caring profession
[33:01] – You have a finite amount of energy and excessive experimentation is depleting your account of time and energy
[34:34] – The best advice for marketing


Amber Hawley 0:01
Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business and life despite their type aways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur and as dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional care for entation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelm perfectionism and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. Hello, hello, my distracted but never deterred friends. I have got a fantastic interview for you. Today, I got a chance to talk to my good friend Annie Ruggles, who is somebody who describes herself as a human muppet. And I think that says it all. She is the founder of the non sleazy skill sales Academy and has guided hundreds of people towards making deeper connections, lasting impressions and friendlier, more lucrative transactions. I mean, what could be better than that? She also has an amazing podcast that I was honored to be on, called to legitimate to quit instant actionable small business strategies with a pop culture spin. And if you know me, you know I love my pop culture. I feel like I could have done every single episode but we bonded over So I Married an Axe Murderer so you should go check out that episode. If you are a super fan like me, and you want to hear us mangle Scottish accents. Anyway, before we get into the interview, I also wanted to let you know that in the inner circle, we have added weekly coworking I have gotten so much positive feedback over the benefits that the co working aspect of the membership has given people that for some people that’s in and of itself, the benefit, they just love coming they get a lot done, it helps them get focused, and helps them stay on track with everything they need to do. So we are now offering weekly, and it’s still at the low low price of only $49 a month. If you would like to find out more information head on over to to find out more. And now for my conversation with Annie. Welcome. Welcome my friends. Welcome Annie.

Annie Ruggles 2:33

Amber Hawley 2:37
This is I am so excited to be recording this interview. You are my new newest BFF soul sister whatever you want to call it.

Annie Ruggles 2:52
The newest and the best everybody else get out the way.

Amber Hawley 2:57
That’s so funny. I was singing that song earlier Get out the way good way. Because I was always being super productive. So that’s that was like my like songs let people know like it’s happening today. People get on board.

Annie Ruggles 3:09
I normally sing my y2k jams when I’m being really, really productive.

Amber Hawley 3:16
Oh, love it. Okay, well, now, I hope you got a little taste of where this interview is gonna go. But other than meeting you last year at a conference, the only thing I have been to in two years, two and a half years. And it was such a thrill to meet you. But for all of those who are not at the conference, and we’re not at our table at lunch, can you tell them that everybody given the official bio, but tell them any other super special magic things they need to know about you and the work you do?

Annie Ruggles 3:47
Super special magic things. My secret power is getting people around sales avoidance. So if people feel sleazy, nasty, slimy, jerky douchey when they put price tags on their products and services, or when they have to push a little bit to close the sale. That’s totally understandable. I was the most sales avoidant person alive. But I had to learn how to do things with ethics and integrity and enthusiasm my way. And once I figured that out, I realized that if I could sell honey anybody can sell without compromising who they really are.

Amber Hawley 4:30
Yes, and I love that. And I think that’s, you know, part of why I really have enjoyed spending time with you. Because when you meet somebody who’s really authentic and they genuinely are doing that sleazy sales stuff, like you just want to be around them. Right. Yeah. And I think that’s, you know, showing up authentically as you are is a big part of that, right like

Annie Ruggles 4:54
that a lot, right? Like there’s this huge premium in both Mark Eating and selling for authenticity. But what happens is, all of these wonderful heart centered, gooey, gooey, gorgeous do gooder people are out there like showing the world their hard wearing their values on their sleeve. But there’s not enough sales education out there yet. There’s still the stigma of sales and all of these nasty practices. So you take a gorgeous hearted person, and you give them a nasty book of sales practices. Of course, they’re gonna feel inauthentic. So what happens is, we magnetize people to us, because we’re showing up authentically and transparently and you know, as the loving, gooey, gooey, gorgeous sponge of humanity and path gorgeous HSPs that we are, and then we go to sell. And we feel like we have to shape shift into this other thing. And what happens is our prospects get whiplash. We’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, who is this person? Because I’ve been falling in work love with this brain. Now this brain is suddenly Turkey talking, suddenly talking like Grant Cardone, how did that happen? No. voice came out of my mouth, people would be very confused.

Amber Hawley 6:18
Oh, that’s funny. Well, or the other thing I see too is and I am guilty of is we just don’t ask for the sale. Right? So that ends up being the other part. We either Yeah, you have you feel like you have to shape shift or you shut down. So are you

Annie Ruggles 6:33
just totally you know, have a little like frontal lobe fit and go to your dark place and go back to bed. And what that actually looks like on a call for a lot of us, because a lot of us are offering free consultations or discovery calls or anything like that, is we say that the call is 2030 45 minutes, maybe even an hour. And then three and a half hours later, the person on the other end of the phone is crying about how we changed their life. And we’re being so amazing and generous with them. And they can’t imagine their life yesterday, continuing without us in it. And we love it. And we just go, Oh, I’m so glad you got a lot out of this, please feel free to go to my website, and then we hang up.

Amber Hawley 7:11
Exactly right. We’re not asking we’re not Yes. Not asking. Yeah. Well, you are going to be giving in my membership and awesome training next month that’s going to talk all about the different buyer types. Yeah. So that people can, like make sure that they’re addressing the concerns or preferences of every buyer type both in their copy and and how they talk to people. Yep, so that is there for the extra special. Like for people who are wanting to join the membership, this would be a great time, because then you could be with Annie live and q&a. But in the interim, what we wanted to talk about is, as we are all easily distracted entrepreneurs in this Goko girl world, how we wanted to talk about marketing in a way that like loses the fluff, right like so that we’re not wasting time on things that actually don’t move the needle, just because we’re told this is something we have to do. And then we end up feeling like we’re, you know, on the treadmill. So that is what we are talking about today, folks.

Annie Ruggles 8:21
So full disclosure, I’m not a social media person. I love me some Instagram, I surprisingly love LinkedIn lately, which makes me feel like I’m about 17,000 years old. But you know, I’m not coming at this topic as a social media strategist or as a social media denier. I’m not trying to knock those things, but we all are in a more performative content space than ever before, with the you know, prevalence of stuff like tick tock. So now everybody is shaking their butt and pointing at things in the sky that aren’t there. Or, you know, we’re all dancing to the same routines and trying to use the same sound effects. And that all is really great. But I worry that long term, that essence of the problems you solve, and why you are the perfect person to uniquely solve them is gonna get lost under performative fluff. And so, what I want to make sure that we’re doing is yes, have fun in your marketing show up authentically in your marketing, if you want to shake your butt and pointed stuff in the sky, feel free but over all people are looking to have problems solved. People want their minds changed. People want their roads paved. People want their bellies or their brains fed. That’s what they want. They want change even on a micro level. If I sell cupcakes, I was hungry. Now I’m not hungry. Thanks for the cupcake problem solved. Right. So when we’re doing all of this marketing, marketing marketing is we rely too much on shiny, and not enough on delivery, right and getting people to the point of mindset where they feel like change is possible, or providing those micro wins actually moving the needle forward and with them, we are going to get swept away in a tide of everybody else’s kick talk. Right?

Amber Hawley 10:31
I was like, that’s a lot. My mind was going like 15 Different places while you were talking. I know, I was like, oh, so good. And yes, please hear that. She’s not saying you can’t do those things. Because, you know, it is fun. It is something that people are like, explore, like, I see it sometimes as I’m noticing, as some people are getting into either tiktoks, or reels, or whatever it is, that they’re having fun with it, and it’s helping them loosen up and get into their creativity. So I think there’s value in that. Like, there’s I think that’s about being authentically you. Right, like even I’ve said to you, you know, offline before, like, I do not know why I haven’t been doing tiktoks I friggin love dancing. Like I

Annie Ruggles 11:19
You’re also hilarious. So tiktok was in essence born for you.

Amber Hawley 11:24
And yet I’m not on it. Really. I did actually create one tiktok, I did it

Unknown Speaker 11:28
Because for you. And for many of us, it requires a large energetic output. That is for us, at least at this point. Prior to prioritized in other ways. My cuckoo crazy balls energy that I have leftover from my cuckoo crazy balls, group goals, and my cuckoo crazy balls job I save for my podcast and podcasts like these. I use my extraversion to podcast I’m actually a very loud introvert. Right? So for me, if I was going to do stuff like this, which is more important to me, and then turn around and have to do a tick tock video, that’s going to be harder, but to your previous point, there are also so many people that have found a home there, that feel liberated there. I was just talking earlier today to my dear friend, Melody Johnson, the course consultant, and I told her, I’m like you have been killing it. With these reels and tiktok videos lately you are killing it. And she said, You know, I’m really having fun doing them. And I’m feeling unblocked doing them. And I was like, well, good, that’s perfect. But the reason I’m drawn to her videos, more than other videos, if she’s doing the dancing, she’s doing the pointing. But she’s also teaching me really great content on a micro level day to day, which is so enjoyable, right? Her whole world is courses. So she’s going, hey, don’t forget to put this in your FAQ. That’s the video I want flash need to be watching. It makes me laugh. But it also makes me think that’s a perfect example of what I was talking about solving a problem that I didn’t even know I had while I’m being entertained.

Amber Hawley 11:31
Yes, yes. I’m that is a great distinction. And so as we talk about this, please hear we are not Pooh poohing anything. We are just saying, yeah, be mindful of your energy. And I think you make a great point. What I realized was like, why am I not on this? Like, I literally, I might be the only person on LinkedIn, who under my skills, one of them is Dance Party Starter. I’m pretty sure most people have seen it in person.

Annie Ruggles 13:44
So if anyone has ever had a doubt, is Amber qualified, and an experienced Dance Party Starter? I would have to put my reputation on the line here and say 100% Yes, I endorse Amber’s dance party skills.

Amber Hawley 14:03
Yes. Okay. So everyone else feel free to go to LinkedIn and endorse me for that skill as well. But that’s where, frankly now I feel like we must tell everyone that is actually how we met was on a dance floor.

Unknown Speaker 14:17
Dancing it’s actually how we almost true our dear friend Diane wing or mutual love of us both attempted to introduce me to Amber but as previously discussed, Amber was mid dance party. And so when approached, Amber said very famously

Amber Hawley 14:44
can’t talk dancing,

Unknown Speaker 14:46
Cant talk, dancing. Yeah. And in that moment, I was like, whoever this is, she will be mine. Eventually, eventually she will be might be cuz like what you were talking about when someone is showing up in their lane in their zone, and in their authenticity, it’s really, really easy for polarizing behavior to occur. It just so happens that the person you said Can’t stop dance and can’t talk dancing to was me. So I was like, yes, please come into my life. I am willing and patient like, yes. Right. But exactly, this is easily we talked about this, you were like, oh my god, I’m so sorry. When I told you about a letter, you’re like, that must have come off is so rude. And I’m like, not to me. It didn’t. Right? Because to me, it seemed like like attracting like, so when you’re out there living it, shaking your butt. Having an Ambu horrific time. It’s easier for people to find you.

Amber Hawley 15:48
Yes, yes. And to your point. So in that, that, to me is my energy zone. But you were right, that, like capturing that in a tick tock is a very different energetic load altogether. Like that’s what I realized is, I was talking to somebody who was saying like, Oh, okay, so you should do something for like these different holidays. And they mentioned, they mentioned, what was it Earth Hour? Or what is that called? There’s like an hour. Something like it was something it had to do with Earth Day, but it was like Earth Hour, we’re like, we don’t use power or something. And authentically, I just off the cuff was went on, like a little tirade. I said, we’re like, sorry, Earth you used to get a whole day now you get an hour. I was like, What’s this Earth Hour, I was like, you know, like, that’s how much we don’t care about you. That’s how fast things are moving, you get an hour now we don’t have time to give you an all day and went off to the whole thing. They were laughing hilarious. And they’re like, you should record that. And of course I didn’t. Because I was like, No, when I can do it in the moment authentically, it’s one thing but if I had to sit down and do that I would feel so uncomfortable, which is why I’m pushing myself to do them because it is about for me, I’m looking at as like you’re saying the pushing my comfort zone to just get more comfortable expressing myself as my authentic self as much as possible. Yeah, but I am never going to be like, This is my main avenue to revenue success. Like I will always know it comes after know,

Annie Ruggles 17:23
like trust is important. It’s just incomplete. Right? So it’s not that I’m saying, get out there, be seen, be loved and be lovable. blow minds make days. I’m not saying not to do any of that, do all of that. But once you have someone in your beautiful and benevolent grasp, and they tell you, or they give you permission to sell to them, by all means, please freakin do that.

Amber Hawley 17:57
I love it. I love it. Well, and this is where I think you and I are in so much alignment, because a lot of what I talk to people about, especially in my coaching or working individually with people is about sustainability. And I’m like, we have to look at our energy flow, like, you know, even and that changes throughout the day. It changes throughout the week. It can change throughout the month. It really even seasonally, like I think our energy, you know, waxes and wanes, right? Yeah. And so I think we have to look at that. And we have to figure out like, sustainably Why am I doing it. So if I’m choosing to do something like this for fun and to push my comfort zone and to kind of make myself grow a little bit, but I I don’t feel the pressure to be like I have to do this in order for my business to succeed, then it’s okay. But if I felt like I have to do all the things, and then it’s like that scattershot. You know, I’ve literally heard somebody before I couldn’t, couldn’t believe they said this. But it was somebody who says they’re like a social media marketing expert. And they said, Oh, yeah, I often advise people to it’s like throwing spaghetti at the wall. And then you see what sticks. And I’m like, literally, that’s an example that most people say the opposite of

Annie Ruggles 19:11
literally that is a spray and pray marketing. Yeah. And here’s the thing about spray and pray. Okay. Yes, marketing, all forms of marketing, social, copywriting, outbound advertising, even, every single thing that you’re doing to increase brand awareness is in and of itself an experiment. Right. And so there’s a lot of experimentation that goes into perfecting these things. Yes, but you still have to do that in a controlled way. This is grade school math. If your science if you change too many variables, we can identify what’s working right. And so as much as I appreciate the gumption of throwing up the wall and see what sticks if you’re independently one Coffee and are sitting on a giant Scrooge McDuck pool of time, then sure, by all means, get out there and spray and pray. But most of us do not have the time other than exploring, well, what would happen if I introduced this kind of content? Or what would happen if I did more video that’s about as experimental as we can get within our current confines of energy and giving a shitness, right, because we are so very much divided in all these other ways, but that spray and pray mentality of like, chucking to the wall and see what sticks is actually pretty dangerous for people with ADHD, or people like me, I have OCD, in that if you told me to throw something at the wall and see what sticks, can you imagine the rabbit hole that comes out of the ground in front of me, when you give me that distraction, permission slip, I will wind up planning entire strategies on platforms that I currently don’t even know exists, because I’m supposed to be figuring out what works. And in order to figure out what works, I literally have to plan for everything. And then I can use that as an opportunity to procrastinate, yes, or opportunity to be perfectionistic, I can use that as an opportunity not to cross the finish lines, I can use that as an opportunity not to start starting lines, right? I can do all these different things in the name of trying all the things. But instead of trying all the things, what if you took that energy? Did the social posts and the things that light you up? Did the marketing that feel good, and hit your people where they live so that they can find you? And then instead of trying all the methods of marketing? Try all the methods of asking?

Amber Hawley 21:56
Hmm, I was. I liked that. I liked that. As you as you were talking, now I feel see you say some something profound like that. And I feel like I can’t follow up with it. So I want to go into the different forms of asking. But first, I want to just make a point because I think it was really important. There is a difference, because I will talk to people a lot about experimenting. Like I’m this is an experiment I’m trying. And I think when you’re experimenting to me, there’s still a thoughtfulness to it. Like you’re still strategically choosing something for a particular reason. As opposed to spray and pray, which is the, like, you’re supposed to do this stuff. So you have to do all these things, even if they don’t feel incongruent with your audience or congruent with your personality or congruent with, you know, like things you enjoy. It’s, I think it’s very different. So there’s a difference between feeling like you have to do all the things and thoughtfully choosing to experiment and like you said, the key and experimentation is your choosing one thing, and I think you have to stick with it for a little while, because that’s the other thing is like people, right, you know, they put in a little bit of time, and then I’ll say it literally will be like weeks later because this is how our brains work. Right? Like, yeah, we can be very, we forget, we forget, like, oh, it’s only been two and a half weeks. And we think it should all be working. And sometimes, you know, you have to give it more time. Like we, you know, people who are on podcasting, they get told a lot like this is the long game. And it’s true, like you build audience over time, and you have to slowly build. But it’s like, you have to give things time, but we’re kind of humans are kind of notorious for this, where it’s like, oh, yeah, I’ve been doing that. But now and I’m like, It’s been two and a half weeks. You need to, you need to calm down.

Annie Ruggles 23:50
And you know, so it’s experimenting, because we don’t know what happened during that two and a half weeks Amber, like, we have no clue what is happening behind the scenes in your business. We also don’t know what’s happening in the world that this marketing or selling is going out in and that does affect right, like, we cannot say it is 2022 We cannot say that the pandemic didn’t change our marketing. I mean, I was supposed to have a major launch the day that Russia invaded Ukraine. I I had to ask myself questions. I woke up it was already happening because of time zones. I had all my scheduled stuff good to go. Ready to go. I had a live stream scheduled and I had to ask myself, does it feel appropriate for me to show up this way in this way today? And I said, No. My choice was no. There have been other times and other disasters and other sentences where I’ve thought you know what, push through. You got to but on this particular day I went no, and saying No, for me was an experiment. What would it feel like to have all of these plans? And to cancel them? What would it feel like to have to send an email to my list being like, hey, today’s live training is canceled, because I’m scared, and I want to go back to bed. And I hope wherever you are, you’re okay. Because this is a lot. I didn’t know what that was gonna feel like, I didn’t know if I was gonna have a mass rush of unsubscribes. But in that moment, the world dictated what I could do. Right? Yeah. So part of our experiment, and part of why we have to take things one variable at a time is because none of us are marketing in a bubble.

Amber Hawley 25:38
Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. And we have to give things more time than we then we want to, because I’m that person, too. Who will hit refresh to see like, how many signups? Have I gotten for an event or something like that? Because it get excited, right? And then you just have to keep you keep pushing through. But I want to go back to because you said the important thing is, why don’t we try asking and all the different ways there are to ask, so I want you to expand on that.

Annie Ruggles 26:08
Okay, here’s the thing, all the different ways to ask is, there’s both mindset, parts of that, and strategic parts of that. The strategic parts of that those are the easy ones, see what it would feel like to put a pour your heart out social posts, and then say at the end, hey, I really love to talk about this. I’m close and intimate get on a discovery call with me. That’s an ask right? Or another ask is, hey, Amber, you and I are so totally aligned. And we both have podcasts? What would you feel about doing a swap? That’s an ask, right? So there are different strategic kinds of apps, you could ask for partnerships. You could ask for referrals, you could ask for testimonials, you could ask for just straight up introductions, that are even referrals, right, you could ask someone to do a favor exchange, you could ask someone to share something you could do all of these different asks a bajillion different ways. But you cannot do that, until you are willing to find your own sales voice. And your own sales voice is something that you already have, it is not something you put on it is not something you would vent, it is something you polish and hone. So you, for example, are a mother and a military wife. What parts of being a mother, what parts of being a military wife could inform your asking tone, right? mother’s parents, regardless of gender, have to convince their kids to do a whole lot of stuff that the kids don’t want to do, that the parents know they have to do. Clients can realize, like children tell you what they want. And then you give them a solution. And they don’t really want to hear it. But you know that the broccoli needs to go down the throat hole, right? So you can try asking in a maternal way, if that’s a role that you play in your life, whatever that tone is, what would it feel like to ask it in a maternal paternal way? Or, you know, military families are constantly dealing with change and fear? How can you handle pain points? Like a military family? Right? How can you say, Listen, I know what I’m asking you to do is gonna require a lot of you. But here’s why I think you can hack it. And here’s the support that you’re gonna have along the way. Right? These are roles that you’re already playing you as therapists, you are a boundary, if How can you show intimacy and boundaries simultaneously? That’s critical and sales? You do that with every single session you have? Are you bringing that warmth? But that separation to your sales stuff? I am a musical theater frickin muppet. How can I bring my natural enthusiasm? To asking? Right it’s roles that we already play is the hats that we wear voluntarily. And that we excel at Naturally, there are elements of asking in those things that you can bring to relationship by selling very easily, just by saying how would insert your name here, the insert your role here, ask in this scenario, if that makes sense?

Amber Hawley 29:37
Yes, yes. I like that. Although initially when you were talking about the mom thing I was like, so I should bribe and yell at my clients. Is that what you’re saying?

Annie Ruggles 29:45
Yes, yes, you should ground your clients. You should demean your clients and you should take away their social media. Yeah.

Amber Hawley 29:52
Oh, yes, no, we just we just

Unknown Speaker 29:59
A humungous portion of people with sales avoided are in some kind of caring profession. Because the boundaries are gooey gooey, and we want to give we have trouble with receiving because we don’t know what’s appropriate, or we are naturally over givers or over delivers, or, you know, big empaths sponges or whatever it may be, right? And so a lot of people go, I just want to given given given given given, given, therefore, it’s weird to ask, but people come to me and they’re like, I can’t sell. I’m a nurse. I can’t sell. I’m a teacher, I can’t sell. I’m a therapist, I can’t sell I’m a parent. And I was like, yeah, no, you sell all day long. You can’t sell like a Wall Street trader, but you can certainly sell like the heart that you already have.

Amber Hawley 30:51
Yes, I think that’s a really good point. Because, you know, like, when you talk about like money archetypes, there’s one called the nurturer. And like I think all of those helping professionals, we’re most helping professionals, I should say, fall into that category. And it’s the that that over delivering over serving, taking care of others. And asking is really hard to do. Even if it isn’t, like you said, it’s not in that it’s not in some kind of smarmy way. It’s not, you know, you’re not working for x cap. I don’t know I watch billions. I’m super into that show. Weirdly, I watch billions to become a better business owner and my husband’s like, they’re all corrupt. I was like, I know. Like, my goal isn’t to be like them. My goal is like their but their dogs good for their goals. Like they and

Annie Ruggles 31:43
I watch prison shows for the hustle. I’m like, I admire that.

Amber Hawley 31:47
Exactly. I was like, I know, I’m not the only one. I’m not I’m not the only one who loves to watch, you know, people even if they’re doing duplicitous thing.

Annie Ruggles 31:56
I mean, I have an entire pop culture, small business podcast, because I very much believe that Inspiration is everywhere. I don’t just mean positive inspiration, y’all, you could find the bad stuff out there, too.

Amber Hawley 32:08
I know, I know. It’s so entertaining and so entertaining. But yeah, I think that’s a great distinction. And so hopefully, if you’re listening to this, and you identify this, as I know, so many people who are listening are, you know, most of the people listening are service providers and a lot of fall into that category of, they just want to over give, they want to, you know, do good work. And I know they wants to be compensated for it as well. But that’s the piece. It’s like, you can put yourself out there as much as possible. And you know, yes, you can get sales, but sustainable, predictable sales come from getting comfortable about putting out the ask, you know, whichever way management aspect,

Annie Ruggles 32:54
right? Like, here we are on the easily distracted entrepreneur. People that are listening to this show know that they have this beautiful bank account of something called attention. And attached to that bank account is an interest, call it energy. And when that is gone, that is gone. But what we’re saying is that all of this over marketing, all the shiny stuff, all this excessive non experimentation, but just attempting, right all of this doing is depleting that bank account of time and attention and energy that we already your white knuckle grabbed on to because we know it’s challenging for us. What I’m asking listeners today to do is use that precious precious energy to ask to connect with the client on a deeper level than to keep spinning your wheels in content creation asked to go deeper, it’s an easier and more efficient use of that precious brilliance that we are all trying to hoard.

Amber Hawley 33:58
Hmm, I love that. I love that. If you were going to give like one last piece of advice, either around, discerning, you know, is this, is this going down a shiny marketing rabbit hole? Or is this a good utilization of my efforts to like get myself known because obviously that’s what marketing is. It’s like letting people know the problems that you solve what you do, and you know getting it out there. What would you do you have any advice for people in that place?

Annie Ruggles 34:31
You already said it right? Then solve a problem. Solve a problem. If you’re shaking your butt. Do my prospects need to have the day brightened is today a rough day doesn’t seem like the energy’s a little bit off today. Would me shaking my butt open the door for other people to feel comfortable and confident and safe. Those are all problems that you’re solving in that aspect. Then get out there and torque babe do it. But at the same point if you’re like am I I’m just doing this because I feel like I should work today. And it’s going to be sort of fun. And he maybe my clients will like it. That’s not actually solving a problem. I would rather see a air quotes boring tick tock, where you share something that shows us who you are or a air quotes stuffy, educational Tiktok, where you actually teach me something, if I feel like I understand the motivation underneath the thing. So if you feel like you’re getting out there and getting into that spray and pray behavior, to stop and go, What the heck problem am I solving here? For me and for them? Ideally, the content you create, the presence that you build around yourself, the community that you gathered yourself should be a win win, it should fulfill something for you, even if it’s just enjoyment, but it should also deliver something for them. Otherwise, it’s just noise.

Amber Hawley 35:57
Hmm. Well, I’m going to leave it right there. Because I think that was perfectly said. And obviously, if you would like to hear more of Annie’s profound insights, and like we said, she’s going to go through the different buyer types, training in the membership in the inner circle membership, then you should head on over to Amber, forward slash inner circle, and join right away because she is giving her training on May 13. Friday, the 30 days shall be every day. Awesome. And if people would like to connect with you, either before that, or in addition to that, where should they go?

Unknown Speaker 36:42
Ah, you know, I love to connect with people as quickly as possible. So if you’re a bit of a wallflower, understand I am to like I already said, I’m an introvert, but I would really love to connect with you on the platform with messaging, you are welcome to go to my website, which is But if you are having active sales avoidance right now, do not even think about it. Just go hit me up on Instagram, where I’m at any printer or on LinkedIn, where I’m at Annie P. Ruggles. And you could also join a community with me and Amber and I call the legitimate party and I would love to welcome you in.

Amber Hawley 37:21
Yes, we did bond over pop culture, that is one of the favorite things, but the legitimate it is legitimate. So and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on today. And I’m pretty sure I’m pretty sure we’ll have to have you back.

Annie Ruggles 37:39
Thank you for the privilege. I would glad I got so excited about the prospect of coming back. I forgot how to talk.

Amber Hawley 37:46
I was like I’ve lost my mind.

Annie Ruggles 37:49
Thank you for the opportunity.

Amber Hawley 37:52
You are welcome, darling. And you shall come back over and over and over.

Annie Ruggles 37:57
Yes, ma’am. Thank you, ma’am.

Amber Hawley 38:00
It has been a pleasure to interview you. And I shall have you go. Go with gusto

Annie Ruggles 38:07
bum ba da. That was me going with gusto

Amber Hawley 38:11
and scene.

Transcribed by

The Inner Circle

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