Setting Boundaries with Clients with Melissa Morris

Amber [00:00:24]:
Welcome to season 5 of the My Biz Bestie Podcast. I'm Amber Hawley.

Maelisa Hall [00:00:28]:
And I'm Melissa Hall.

Amber [00:00:30]:
And today we have with us another fabulous guest. We have the beautiful Melissa Morris with us in the house.

Melissa Morris [00:00:37]:
Yeah, ladies, thanks for having me.

Amber [00:00:40]:
Hello.

Maelisa Hall [00:00:41]:
Thank you so much for letting us know that you share our ballerina views.

Melissa Morris [00:00:46]:
It's true, it's true. That's why I reached out, really.

Amber [00:00:52]:
We bonded over ballerinas.

Melissa Morris [00:00:54]:
That, and I really just love your guys' like intro, like your podcast. I just jam out to it every time when it comes on.

Amber [00:01:00]:
Like, yeah, we like that. We actually took a while to pick that music. We were we really— did.

Melissa Morris [00:01:05]:
Bravo, ladies. Spot on, spot on.

Amber [00:01:08]:
It's got a little jam to it.

Melissa Morris [00:01:09]:
I like it.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:11]:
Yeah, yeah, we like it. So yes, we were thinking of you all when we did that. We invested that time up front. But it is fun because I'm like, there are certain intros, you know, podcasts I listen to that I like skip regularly.

Melissa Morris [00:01:24]:
It's kind of bad. Yeah.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:25]:
Yeah. I think ours, I'm like, yeah, I dig it. Like, I actually want to listen to this one, right?

Amber [00:01:29]:
Yeah, we're pretty awesome.

Melissa Morris [00:01:30]:
Sometimes I don't even get to the interview, I just keep listening to the intro.

Amber [00:01:34]:
I know, she's like repeat, and then she starts mixing it like.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:40]:
Oh my.

Amber [00:01:40]:
Gosh, you can make yourself a little mix or buy the whole song. I'm pretty sure that it's actually a whole song.

Melissa Morris [00:01:47]:
You could just do that.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:49]:
I forget the name of it. It has— it's like devil or dog or one of those words is in there.

Amber [00:01:53]:
Yeah.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:53]:
Somewhere.

Amber [00:01:53]:
Like devil dog something. It is It just made it better. How you retained that, I don't know.

Melissa Morris [00:01:59]:
Yes.

Amber [00:02:00]:
Anyway, aside from awesome funky rap music and thinking that ballerinas are hardcore, why don't you tell us a little bit more about you? Yes.

Melissa Morris [00:02:12]:
So I'm a business operations consultant who specializes in client processes. So what I mean when I say client processes, I mean client onboarding, client management, and then client offboarding. So I help service providers streamline and automate these processes. And that also typically involves some consulting and coaching up around setting expectations with clients and creating and holding boundaries.

Amber [00:02:36]:
I like it. I was like, ooh, I want someone to do that for me.

Maelisa Hall [00:02:39]:
I know. Doesn't it just make you be like, oh, I need that?

Amber [00:02:43]:
I know. I was like, I just want to grow just to have that. That's how I feel. It's kind of like office supplies, anything where somebody has processes. I'm like, oh, Ah, yes.

Melissa Morris [00:02:55]:
Yeah.

Maelisa Hall [00:02:56]:
Yeah.

Amber [00:02:56]:
I love it.

Maelisa Hall [00:02:57]:
Yes. And are you like a do-it-for-you model or a let me help you set this up type model?

Melissa Morris [00:03:04]:
Yes. I offer done-for-you services. So I work in two phases. So a lot of people skip the first phase and that's the strategic part, right? And that's really where that setting expectations, that creating, that holding boundaries and the piece that's really going to set your business up to give your client a really excellent experience. Experience. So we work through that first, and this part involves really mapping out your client's journey, the client experience, and that's the point where we can identify spots for automating and streamlining. And so then I move in and I actually do the done-for-you tech setup, which would look like maybe setting up a CRM for somebody and building out, for example, a Dubsado workflow. Maybe I'm creating Trello boards and these are going to be the templates for how you're managing and keeping track of client tasks.

Amber [00:03:58]:
I love it. Yeah, all of that. I'm like, ooh, tell me more. But actually, why you're on today is another really important thing. You're going to talk to us about boundaries with clients. Yeah, and I think that's so huge. And I I love, love that you reached out to us about that topic because I think we— Melissa was saying we've talked about that with teams or with our support systems that we have, but— or even with ourselves, or mostly with ourselves. We're so good at that part. But the part that we have not yet touched on is how important those boundaries with clients are. So we are very excited to hear all about that today.

Maelisa Hall [00:04:40]:
Yeah, so maybe you could start with like, what are some of the common themes that you see? And like you said, you focus mostly on service providers, right? Which I think is a lot of the people who are following us, but I would imagine that this could also apply to a lot of other people. For sure.

Melissa Morris [00:04:58]:
Yeah. I focus mostly on supporting service providers though, because kind of mentioned what I found is often the service provider, copywriters, bookkeepers, web designers, et cetera, they have left their prior business to go out on their own and now they no longer have that buffer between them and their clients. So I have 10 years client management experience. I worked in ad agencies for a long time, and so I was that buffer between our designer and our web team and the copywriters and all of the people who were providing the services. And I noticed that when service providers come out and they don't have that buffer, i.e., someone who is like me standing in the way, they don't know how to manage clients. And it's something, as I was mentioning to you ladies, that always has struck me as funny, is business owners are always so willing and eager to get leadership on how to manage their team. And you know, as we talked about being a better parent, which is also a leadership position and a management type of role. But when it comes to managing clients, this is something that I think service providers think they should just automatically know how to do, or they just never really pay attention to. And the truth is, is if you don't have client management experience in place, then you're going to very quickly start getting run over by your clients. And this is when we start pressing like the panic button that says, Oh my God, I need boundaries.

Amber [00:06:17]:
Yes, and I think the reason it makes sense with service providers is it's kind of like that creative thing where you're having so much more interaction with your client. It's not like they went and they bought a product, not saying that that's not important, it is, but they didn't just go and buy a product. They're actually having a relationship with you. And so there's just a much higher level of, you know, touchpoints, if you will. And so many people end up burnt out because they overextend themselves or they don't have those boundaries around their time or their processes. So I think it's a really important conversation to have for sure.

Melissa Morris [00:06:53]:
And that's exactly right because when you're a service provider, you have the service provider-client relationship, you need things from each other regularly, right? Like I am putting together a website from you, I perhaps need copy. I need images. So there really is this back and forth and someone really needs to become the leader in this relationship. And service providers who maybe are struggling to hold boundaries, set expectations, i.e., they have a lack of client management experience, they tend to want to kind of shrink back and let the client assume like the leadership role in this relationship. And they almost think that by doing that they're providing really excellent customer service. And what they're actually doing is they're leaving their client with a lot of questions, which is why they're getting so many emails, and they're leaving their client wondering, can you handle this? Right? And that's really what boundaries are, is just severe expectation management, getting really clear on what working with you looks like and letting them know. And then, you know, communication is obviously the best way to set expectations and manage them, which is of course setting and managing your boundaries. Does that make sense?

Amber [00:08:12]:
Absolutely.

Maelisa Hall [00:08:14]:
I know.

Melissa Morris [00:08:15]:
So when you're thinking about expectations, there definitely are— I think Amber, you kind of asked some of this, like what are those common areas where you start to see boundaries getting run over? The first one is one we obviously tend to think of first, and that's excessive emails or messages or this, I need this right now, you've got to respond to me.

Maelisa Hall [00:08:36]:
From people. Yeah, correct.

Melissa Morris [00:08:37]:
That's a big one. And so that's why I recommend to everyone I work with. So I actually recommend in your client onboarding process, you have what I call an expectations email. This is also called a work with me email, a how I work email, some people call it, but pretty much it outlines exactly that, the expectations, what they can expect working with you and then what you expect from them. And so there are 4 things that I recommend be included in your expectations email. The first is your preferred methods of communication, which, hello, this stops all of these excessive emails. So I'll talk about that a little bit more in a second. Your deliverables, meeting details, and then what you need from them or what you might expect, you know, from your clients. So when we're talking about preferred method of communication, this is really important for a couple of reasons. One, you don't want to be bombarded with excessive emails. Now you're getting a Voxer, now you're getting a Facebook message, et cetera. But what might happen is, is we tend to kind of teach our client that that's okay. If they send us an email, we answer to the email. If they send us a Facebook message, we answer there. If we don't respond to the Voxer right away and then they send an email, now we're responding everywhere and it gets really, really overwhelming. And so I just shudder when I hear a service provider, when I ask them what their preferred communication method is, they say, well, you know, just whatever my client wants. No, like, no. Tell them how to get in touch with you. That's the best way. And it serves your client because then A, your client always knows that if they communicate with you in this way, that you will in fact receive the message. You didn't miss the box or you didn't miss the message, et cetera. And then B, that keeps you from getting bombarded in different places and then losing track of tasks, requests, information. Needed. So if you have everything funneling in in one spot, it's much easier for you to more successfully manage your client projects. And then part of that preferred method of communication is not only telling them this is the outlet in which I want you to reach out to me, it's also this is when I'm going to get back to you. Like I respond to emails between the hours of 9:00 and 4:00 PM. I always respond within 24 hours. And just again, setting that expectation so that they know if they have emailed you at 5 o'clock, you don't even need to wonder if they're going to email you again, if they're going to get back to you. They say, oh, when it comes 9 o'clock tomorrow morning, they'll get back to me. They'll get back to me before the end of day tomorrow.

Maelisa Hall [00:11:13]:
What are your thoughts on like the reasons that this, because this sounds very easy, right? Like this sounds very easy to do, right? Almost intuitive. In some ways. And yet it does become a problem. And I wonder, because I'm kind of thinking of like what you say, and I can think it could be just struggling with the boundary in general, like just wanting to constantly meet people's needs. It also could be like, for me, my initial reaction is to balk at that because I'm like, I don't want them expecting me to reply within a certain amount of time. Right? Which is not fair, you know, for— but like, honestly, that is my initial reaction. And so like, part of it too is I wonder if a lot of the service providers you work with, if they're like, oh, but I don't want to have those limitations, or if they feel kind of boxed in as they start to think of these things, even though ultimately I do know it creates more freedom.

Melissa Morris [00:12:08]:
Yes, it does create more freedom. And the truth is, is keep in mind, like, you can make your own rules. If it's a week, before you'll get back to them, then say it's a week, right? Like, hey, I'll always respond to all emails within a week. If you haven't heard from me within a week, feel free to reach out again. And then this way they're not emailing you, they don't hear from you a day or two later, then they email you again and then they don't hear from you a day or two later. So then they email you again and now they're just kind of growing frustrated because they say, oh, I keep emailing her, she's not getting back to me. But in their mind, the expectation is 24 hours or 48 hours. But if you tell them, hey, that's not how I work, how I work says I'll get back to you within 1 week. Now I'm not even going to think to send you another email because it hasn't been a week yet. And if— and give them that opportunity. Like, if it's been a week and you still haven't heard from me, feel free to reach out again. Perhaps technology has failed us, or perhaps I missed your email.

Amber [00:13:05]:
And I you think, know, when you were saying that, it made me realize, I think what people do is they input their own expectations of what they think it should be in lieu of you having set that. Because there are people who are like, you should respond within the hour.

Melissa Morris [00:13:22]:
Correct.

Amber [00:13:23]:
We've had people like, I've been calling, and we find out like, oh, you called like at 9 o'clock and it's now 11, and you just showed up at the office.

Melissa Morris [00:13:32]:
Like, simmer down.

Amber [00:13:35]:
Yeah, exactly. These these are, are in my therapy practice, and it's like, okay, that's great, but the person who schedules is not actually here. So, right. One of those things where, yeah, people put in their own expectations. Right. And so that does make sense. I mean, if you put a week, they're going to think, God, she's kind of a jerk, but at least they won't keep messaging you.

Melissa Morris [00:13:57]:
Right. Well, and then too, like what a beautiful way though to start picking the people who are actually going to be a good client for you. If there's somebody who is just appalled that you would wait a week, to get back to them, imagine how frustrating that relationship is going to be as you guys are working together when they're expecting a response within an hour and you're more like the week type of girl. It's better to know upfront for them and better to say, okay, then I'm probably not a good fit for you because that's not how I work. So again, setting that expectation and that really strong communication upfront can really ward off a lot of what we see as these boundary issues because everybody knows what to expect. And I know right away if that doesn't work for me, then I'm going to go find somebody else.

Amber [00:14:45]:
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think that's important.

Maelisa Hall [00:14:49]:
And I kind of want to get like nitty gritty here. Like, I have questions, girl.

Melissa Morris [00:14:53]:
So I'm rolling up my sleeves.

Maelisa Hall [00:14:57]:
So one thing I'll see, like in these Facebook groups of like, you know, other women entrepreneurs or that kind of thing. One question I will see pop up maybe like every 6 months or so, like somewhat regularly, it's like, do you reply to emails during your off time? So let's say you've set these expectations, right? I reply to emails during this time. I reply within 24 hours. It's all very clear, but you do have your own business for a reason. So you're doing some extra work later in the evening or on Saturday or whatever. And I know that a lot of people feel conflicted about like, oh, well, do I save it as a draft and then like click send in the morning? Do I schedule it somehow? Like if I reply like right now, are they going to, you know, then assume that I will always reply? Like, I know this is a head game thing for a lot of people. So what are your thoughts on that?

Melissa Morris [00:15:49]:
Such a great question because I've obviously had conversations with clients about this too. And it's like, well, what do I do? And I think there are a couple of things at play and that will dictate on how we can do. So the thing is, is when you have your boundaries, you can always break your own rules. And so I tell this to people a lot. You were talking about, you know, a business owner who gets boxed in. Sometimes when I'm working with a client who's a particular maybe people pleaser or, you know, maybe just a little more conservative or concerned about what their clients might think, they always want to come to me with like, well, there's a special circumstance. You know, like, oh, well, I told them they had to have the website copy to me by this day or I was going to charge a late fee. But you know, their daughter was really sick and then they were home for 3 days. Okay, well, give them an extension. Like, you don't have to be like, that's okay if it's an extenuating circumstance. But what's not okay is when the business owner just emails you back and it's like, hey, I just didn't get that done. Can I get it to you next week? No, now there's a late fee, right? So to kind of circle back to that, just because you have told them that you don't respond between the hours of 9 to 4 doesn't mean you can't if you really want to. Like if it really is more convenient, you're working late before going on vacation, whatever, you can do that. But what you cannot do because you will set a precedent is if you're routinely responding to emails, messages, etc., that are falling outside of this time that you said you're going to, you could potentially be setting yourself up for a new expectation. Because while you have said 9 to 4 is when I work, if you'll carry on in a full Voxer conversation with them all evening, you're not holding your boundary. You're not living up to that expectation. Why should you expect them to? So know when you're going to break your own rule, right? Like, know when, okay, this I'll consider an extenuating circumstance. I'm going to be on vacation for a week, so I'm going to work late tonight or be sending emails early or wrap this up now. But know when you're not even respecting your own boundary and living up to the expectation yourself, because they certainly are not going to either. Does that help answer your question?

Amber [00:18:08]:
Yeah. And I think what you're talking about is you're being very conscious that you're doing it outside of those. Because if you don't pay attention to that, it is a slippery slope. Like I think about my therapy practice, we have a 24-hour cancellation policy and that is our policy. However, of course, there are rare circumstances in which we don't, but we take that on a case-by-case basis. And then we're very clear to say, okay, this one time we're gonna give you an exception because then you're paying attention to it and it's a note like, okay, just be aware Well, and ethically we're supposed to do that as part of our, as part of our profession to be clear, like, because you can't just not charge them all these times and then all of a sudden charge them, right? Like you have to be consistent in that. So, but I do like that even for yourself, pay attention.

Melissa Morris [00:18:58]:
Yes. And I love that we started talking about this because if you're going to know what is above and beyond service, if you're going to know what the extenuating circumstances are, know in advance what those count for you. So I always encourage service providers too who are struggling with boundary management, let's write them down. What are your boundaries? Because I think sometimes too, depending on when we work, if we are working a lot between the hours of 5:00 and 8:00 PM and you want to answer emails during that time, that is perfectly acceptable. So it really comes down to what's working for you, what feels good for you, and then make sure you're relaying that. But you can't know what an extenuating circumstance is until you know what the regular circumstances are, right? And so another place where I see boundaries get bombarded a lot too is what's called scope creep, where you're being asked to do tasks that are falling outside the scope of the project. And this can be very tricky because oftentimes I think that's why they use the word creep. It's stuff that's really like just outside, like it's just outside what you're supposed to be working on. And again, I hear this a lot. They say, well, I ended up doing this or that extra because I never really said it wasn't included. And first off, my comment to them is, well, you could have told them it wasn't included, but I understand that can be like challenging for people at that point is to now circle back and say that's not included. Or when your client again had the expectation that very much maybe this was included. So again, something to think about is get very specific on the expectations around communicating with you and that area, but also what is included in what you were offering and really know what is above and beyond when it comes to the services that you're going to offer to your clients. And take notice if routinely people assume that a certain task or piece is included in the project, then you need to make special note to let them know that, hey, that's actually not included. And again, kind of coming back to setting those expectations during client onboarding, if you're letting them know upfront and making a specific point to say this piece is not included, like a lot of people think it's going to be, but I'm telling you right now that it's not, I can bid this if we do want to move forward, or this is available upon request. And at that point, you're now setting the expectation that you're not going to do that, or maybe you are available to it, but expect that there may be an additional fee associated with it.

Maelisa Hall [00:21:40]:
I think this is such an important point because I know in my first business, which is a lot more automated and people are typically purchasing when they want and that kind of thing, but it has a personal service component to it. And I get a lot of customer service emails and have someone who manages that for that reason. But a lot of times we think, like you're saying, like we think this is the norm, this is expected, or even like in the industry, this is what everybody does. It doesn't mean that your clients know that. And I will often get emails that are like, seriously, somebody asking that question, you know? And I might have that thought sometimes, and sometimes it is like, really, come on, you know, for real. But other times I'm thinking that, but then I get 5 of those emails in 2 days, and that tells me, even though I may be thinking that, it is not being communicated. And so then I do change my thinking, and I think, well, I thought it was clear, but obviously it's not if it's that many people. That are confused about it. So let me clear it up because we're just thinking like, well, duh, of course, you know.

Amber [00:22:50]:
And that's how she started picking up people's dry cleaning.

Melissa Morris [00:22:56]:
No, that's exactly right though. And that's what I tell people too, is you know your process, you know how all of this works, you know, and for you, you've been doing this so long, you know it so well. These questions just feel like, seriously? Seriously, but to someone who is not in that space who has never done this before, it's a legitimate question. So that's a great thing to look out for. And then you can adjust your, you know, in this space, maybe it was sales page copy. What are you saying on your discovery call or your free consultations that are making people believe that this is included? So sometimes there is something you're doing that's leading them to believe this, or sometimes it's just, their lack of experience in the space that is leading them to understand that this is something that's included. But as long as you can figure that out and then communicate that with them, then you're never finding yourself in that awkward situation where you're thinking either I have to do this free work again, or I have to go back and have maybe an awkward moment where I say, actually, this isn't included, or this is going to cost extra.

Maelisa Hall [00:24:03]:
Yeah, or just get annoyed because you're saying the same thing 10 times.

Melissa Morris [00:24:06]:
Correct.

Maelisa Hall [00:24:06]:
Yeah, then it's like, hmm, okay, maybe.

Melissa Morris [00:24:10]:
Maybe I should actually— I'm a denominator here.

Maelisa Hall [00:24:13]:
Yes, include that. And kind of related to that, so this is the end of my digging in nitty-gritty style. How do you recommend communicating these things, these expectations to people? Like, do you think it has to be in writing? Do you think people need to sign something? Should it be over the phone? Should it be both? What are your recommendations there?

Melissa Morris [00:24:29]:
So I always recommend an expectations email, and that will outline these basic things. So it should include 4 things: your preferred method of communication, the deliverables, what you're actually going to be giving to them, which again helps ward off some of this scope creep because they have that in writing, meeting details. How can they schedule a meeting with you? How many calls do they get? Are you just going to pick up a phone at any minute and talk to them for 30 minutes? If you lay out those meeting details, you're going to want to do that. And then what you expect from them. So if you need more than that, kind of depends, I think, on the service that you're providing. Now I always have two recommendations. If it's something where you need lots of information from your clients or something that's probably very techie and that would be a little over their head, then I recommend you add what I call a kickoff call or like a getting started call. So you'll send the expectations email and this is going to outline some of the more basic things, how to reach me, the times you work, the more basic things. But then you're going to want to follow up with a kickoff call where you're probably going to dig a little deeper and start talking about more specifically the timeline. This is what I need from you. This is when I need it from you. Are kind of, are we in agreement there? You could potentially send them a timeline. So I do think there are instances where you need to get outside of just an email. But I always recommend sending it in an email, even if you have mentioned it to them on a discovery call, even if it kind of had come up at some other point, because you have to consider too the person's space. When you're on a discovery call, a free consultation, or even if you've put it in your contract and they're reading through the contract, they're not thinking about the tactics and the specifics of how we're going to get this started. They're still thinking, is this a good buying decision? Is this in my budget? Is this the right person? "Am I going to get the transformation that they're promising?" That's the space their brain is in, not, "If I shoot them an email, what time are they going to get back to me?" They're not getting down into those specifics, but once we've got the signature, once we've got the money in the bank, now their brain is shifting into gear of, "Let's get the work done." Now is the time to remind them, "This is what it's going to look like as we're working together." I always recommend it comes in an email. I mean, this is really legal protection. But it does feel more comfortable if someone is pushing you and saying, no, I really think that was included. I swore you said that on the call. Actually, if you refer back to the email, I say clearly that was not included.

Amber [00:27:02]:
Just kind of going off of that, that's something I've been considering lately is for my one business, the therapy practice, we send a confirmation email and everything. And there are, again, there are assumptions that we make like, well, obviously you should understand the process, but a lot of people are new to therapy. And so I thought about even recording a video so that it's kind of like, here are general things, here's what to expect, just as a way to have a different format because not everybody is reading everything like very detailed. I guess we see a lot of ADHD And people. so, but even still, I think when they're first getting it, it's, they're in an anxious space usually. So they're not in that place, but I thought that might be another way of kind of reiterating that if it's something where it's kind of like, across the board the same process as opposed to having to do the call, which again, I understand is different if you're doing websites or copywriting or something. But I guess thinking about that, if it's generally the same stuff that keeps coming up, having that other medium might be a good idea too.

Melissa Morris [00:28:03]:
For sure. And that's something I have absolutely recommended to people as well. If it's pretty standard or even some things that are slightly tech, do a video of you demonstrating what you need them to do, right? Set your client up for success. Help them help you, right? I'm going like, was that Jerry Maguire? So, you know, cause I've worked with some service providers and then they can.

Amber [00:28:27]:
Show me the money.

Melissa Morris [00:28:30]:
Sorry.

Amber [00:28:31]:
That's okay. Love that movie.

Melissa Morris [00:28:33]:
So, cause I've also worked with people who say they have some clients who maybe aren't particularly tech savvy, but they really need to be doing Zoom calls. And they're like, oh, I actually always end up doing a weird phone call with this person or whatever because they don't understand how to work Zoom. Well, have you showed them? Have you helped them? Oh no, I haven't done that. So that's something to just give them a quick video tutorial, walk them through something, and oftentimes that will go a long way.

Maelisa Hall [00:28:59]:
Yeah, it's interesting because when I did have my therapy practice for a brief period, I focused on ADHD a lot. So I knew I had a lot of ADHD people, and so one of the things I did in my like onboarding email basically was I let them know how much time it takes to complete each task they needed to do before they came in.

Melissa Morris [00:29:20]:
So good.

Maelisa Hall [00:29:21]:
So I think it is helpful in general if you're giving people like a list of things to do that might take more than 15 minutes, you know, but I wanted them to fill out a lot of the paperwork before we see each other so that we're not wasting time doing a lot of that kind of stuff. So we can talk about like what you're mentioning, the actual expectations and how that's going to work. And I found that really helpful. And then I started to notice, I'm like, yeah, that's actually really nice to know, you know, but it's little things like that. What have I seen in my experience that people often have trouble with? Like, what is something I can do? Can I record a video? Can I let them know how long it's going to take to fill out a form, whatever it is, but also like what's specific to your client? Because some clients that in some situations might not really matter, but like, okay, well, I have this particular client and I know that they're probably going to struggle with this. So let me make this easier.

Melissa Morris [00:30:09]:
Yeah, for sure. Know your audience and just know ways to communicate too. And what's funny is sometimes people think that by scheduling a call or doing some extra communication is going to eat up time. And what I've actually found is the opposite. When something could really happen in 5 minutes on a phone call and we spend 2 weeks going back and forth over email on this, I recently worked with someone and we added at least 2, if not 3 calls. So she works with people over the course of 8 weeks. That's like 8-week projects. We added probably 3 90-minute calls to her process and she still told me she saves up to 4 hours per project.

Maelisa Hall [00:30:56]:
Wow.

Melissa Morris [00:30:57]:
That's how much of this like back and forth could be just cleared up. Get on the phone, handle it, and then move on.

Amber [00:31:07]:
I like it. And I think we've become such an email-heavy, even text-heavy society that maybe we think it's arduous to make the phone call. But it's looking at it like that, you're like, okay, but is this something that's so much easier to communicate in just like a quick phone call? I love that.

Melissa Morris [00:31:26]:
Yes. I would say too, just because a tool can do something doesn't mean you need to utilize that piece, right? Like some people just have like, why is this zapping over here? They're like, I don't know, because it does. Well, that's the first thing I'm getting rid of because you're not even doing anything with the data. It's zapping too. I love that.

Amber [00:31:49]:
So true.

Maelisa Hall [00:31:50]:
Decluttering all of our systems.

Amber [00:31:53]:
Yes.

Maelisa Hall [00:31:53]:
I think this has probably given people a lot of things to think about, like how they can improve their system. And I think the biggest part of this is like, it ultimately does make you enjoy your job more. And it also makes for much more satisfied customers, right? Like across the board, it makes people happy that they're working with you, that you were clear, and that they know what they're going to get and they're getting what they're going to get.

Melissa Morris [00:32:14]:
Exactly. Exactly. And you know what? Happy clients are returning clients. And happy clients refer to you.

Amber [00:32:22]:
Absolutely. I'm telling you, I think some people forget that.

Melissa Morris [00:32:27]:
Yes.

Maelisa Hall [00:32:28]:
So, well, if people are like, we, I love the detail and so appreciate you giving us all of these different things to think about, but obviously there's a lot more to it. So if people are wanting some support around how to get a system in place, how can they reach out to you?

Melissa Morris [00:32:48]:
So I'm on Facebook at, at follow Melissa V. Morris, and then my website is melissavmorris.com. And if you go to melissavmorris.com/checklist, you can get my client onboarding checklist, which will give you a great jumping off point to, yes, create your client onboarding. And also there's a super helpful link in there to a template expectations email. Or work with me getting started email. So it's super plug and play and you just plug in your own meeting details and preferred method of communication and all that. And then you're kind of set up to start managing your boundaries with clients.

Amber [00:33:27]:
I like it. I love, I love a good freebie too. I know. A good download. That's awesome.

Maelisa Hall [00:33:34]:
Nice checklist and template. And that's Melissa V as in violin Morris, violence as in They play in the orchestra if you go to watch ballerinas.

Melissa Morris [00:33:48]:
Okay, I see where you're going with this. I was like, as opposed to the other violins?

Amber [00:33:52]:
I know, I know. I was like, I'm really confused where you're going with this.

Melissa Morris [00:33:56]:
You know, it's a stretch, but I commend you. We circled back to ballerinas and I salute you, girl.

Maelisa Hall [00:34:03]:
Yeah, so now that you've listened to this amazing episode, if you haven't heard us talk about the ballerinas and how they relate to CrossFit people, go back and check out our complacency episode. We'll link to that in the show notes.

Melissa Morris [00:34:16]:
You are in for a treat if you listen to it, I promise. Thank you.

Amber [00:34:21]:
I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for being with us.

Melissa Morris [00:34:23]:
Thank you so much, ladies. I so appreciate it.