Productivity Strategy for the Neurodiverse / ADHD Business Owner with Special Guest Maelisa Hall

[00:00:00] Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren't reaching their full potential in business and life. Despite their type a ways with my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a. com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success. 

By using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional carefrontation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelm, perfectionism, and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. Hey, Hey, Hey, I have a super special guest today. I'm pretty dang excited about this one.

And I think you will be too right now, joining me on today's podcast. Is the one, the only, Dr. Melissa Hall. Yay! I'm like, where's, where's my little cheering sound effect? [00:01:00] I know! To go with it? Or the like, brr, brr, brr. That would be even more fun. Okay, editor, if you can pop, if you can pop that in there, go ahead and do that.

It'll sound way better than my sound effect. I'm not good at doing sound effects. I like your sound effect. You're like Amy Schumer ing it. I am very excited to be here. It's been, it's actually been a really long time since I've been on a podcast. Oh, wow. And I'm very excited. I think the last podcast that we recorded together came out in early March when we, you know, had to share our big switch up news.

But, uh, I'm so excited. And people are probably like, Ooh, look at, I threw down some credentials for you. Even Fred with the doctor. Cause it's relevant to this episode. It is totes relevant. Um, but yes, other than just. Having her here because she is a joy. And obviously I will take every [00:02:00] chance to talk to my biz bestie that I can.

But the reason we wanted to do this episode together, besides it being more fun, is that today we're going to talk about an ADHD strategy for getting things done. And you know, ADHD. We specialize in ADHD. We love supporting our ADHD community. So if you're. About to turn to tune out because you don't have ADHD.

Do not worry. The strategy actually works for everyone and it can be really helpful, but it's particularly helpful for all of our neurodiverse peeps out there. So we wanted to talk today and do a deep dive on body doubling. Yes. Which sounds like. It sounds more exciting than it is. I don't know. It's exciting because it helps you get things done.

But yeah, I love it. It's, it's one of those things that's so like simple and no, it's not, it's not about cloning yourself. No, it's not. [00:03:00] It's, but it is a really great strategy. And you know, the funny thing is, and I'm sure many, many of you listeners out there have had this experience. I actually just kind of intuitively did this without knowing that I was doing this.

Well, before I understood even before I knew I had ADHD or that this strategy is actually a thing, right? And so we're going to talk. We're going to go into it. We're going to talk about it. And then we're going to talk about different ways to utilize the strategy and kind of our experience of things that do work and don't work so well.

Yeah, because I think it's helpful to have. A multitude of strategies in your pocket, right? Like it, no matter who you are. Um, but also sometimes they don't work, right? Like as we get into it, we'll find like, I can share how like I've had experiences where body doubling is really helpful for me and other experiences where it's not.

And I've kind of had to [00:04:00] figure out when, when it'll work and when it won't. I love that. Okay. So what is body doubling? So that is. It's having somebody sit with you or be with you while you're doing a task and it, and it actually helps you focus more on the tasks that you're trying to get done. And that's, I'm going to, I'm going to say it that simple way.

Do you, is there anything to the definition you would like to add Melissa? Yeah. And it could be in literally in person or online. Exactly. Like just with you where you kind of can see, I think seeing them or feeling their presence in some way is the key. Right. And when I used to do this, because if you know me, you know, I love like organizing and purging and cleaning.

And, you know, especially when you have little kids, you have to do that kind of often. And there would be times even before we had kids, though, that like I had to go through a box of paperwork. Because hello, [00:05:00] ADHD, and I would like accumulate all this paperwork and my husband would eventually like take stuff like off a table and like put it in a bag and then pile up the bags into a box.

And again, let me be clear, though. The rest of my house was totally clean, but I always had one area that were everything accumulated. So it was like perfect. Action and then a total shitshow. And so I would eventually have to go through these things or I'd have to go back through like my craft closet or my supply closet or something like that.

Right. And, and it would be like a big project. And I was like, okay, this is going to take me some time. And I would want him to come and like, sit with me in the living room. And I said, you don't. You don't even have to talk to me. In fact, don't, but just sit with me. So that I didn't feel like I was all alone when I had this big thing to do, because I just knew that when that happened, I would, I would lose focus.

I would do other things. I would watch a show. And so having, just having him there present helped me focus [00:06:00] and get the thing done. And it felt more enjoyable. Yeah. And it helps with like motivation too. I think, excuse me, even for the people who are not ADHD, like I just had a friend who moved, um, and she is very, very not ADHD.

Um, she's very extroverted. So she's like, likes having, being around people and having people around and everything, but. not ADHD at all. And, um, but she was talking about how there are just certain things with moving like she hates putting away her clothes, right? Like that's just the task that she hates doing.

She's fine, like organizing the kitchen and doing all of that stuff. And we're kind of total opposites in that way. And so me being there, I was like, Well, yeah, and because she's not ADHD, she, she's kind of a little bit more willing to be like, okay, let's do the thing I don't want to do. Let's do it now.

Right. Because, because she knew that like I was there and I was kind of into it. And she said so many times, like, I would not be doing this if you weren't [00:07:00] here. I just wouldn't be doing this if you weren't here. And I wasn't like, I was kind of helping her just like. I was an extra pair of hands as far as like moving things from one room to the next or something.

But for the most part, it was just me being there motivated her to get it done. And she had someone to kind of talk through it with. Um, and so I think there's so many reasons it can be helpful. Like if it's something that's difficult for you, like even emotionally, there's a lot of things, like if you're going through something, um, if you tend to reminisce about things or if you're stuck because like you're going through stuff and finding things from an ex or, you know, like whatever it is, sometimes it's really helpful to have someone there even just to talk through things that are coming up or to be like, do I need this?

I never wear this. Do I really need this? And that friend can be like, yeah. Exactly. I mean, so yes, there's accountability. There's like keeping you focused, the [00:08:00] motivation. And I do think that that part too is huge, right? Like if you are somebody who is very sentimental or you tend to like over think things or, you know, reminisce is a good word, probably I'll try not to say, you know, like, uh, I'll try not to be, make it a pejorative, but, you If you tend to do that, I think it is so great.

And that's where I was saying, like, I wouldn't necessarily talk to my husband, like he would be watching a movie or something, but every once in a while I could be like, Oh, what do you think about this? And then he would just be like, boom, you know, and then we'd move on. Right. And I think all of that. And also, I don't know about you when I'm, well, I guess I'm thinking about organization in particular, but I agree with you when there's like emotional stuff, like sometimes having somebody who can do those things.

Like take something from one place to another or get you something. So, because if you're in an emotional place and you go to put a paper, let's say, put a paper somewhere or to go find your, [00:09:00] your tax, um, folder, the risk of you then getting sidetracked and doing something else is very high. So I think it's a really good strategy to have somebody when you have somebody physically there helping, but like you said in the beginning, this still is a super effective strategy virtually as well.

Like we've, you and I have done this. We have, we have done it just with each other. I do it with some other friends and I do it in my membership. You do it in your, um, your business as well. And, you know, we've even done them as my biz bestie, we hosted some coworking sessions. So they're very effective. And what I like is, again, it's the accountability piece and it's keeping you focused.

And then often we add in the Pomodoro method. And when you do that, The sense of urgency is there and that sense of urgency is usually just enough of what we need when we have ADHD to [00:10:00] keep us focused because it's like, Nope, I have, it creates that, um, that almost like false deadline. And, you know, so often with people who have, uh, who struggle with procrastination, it's like the deadline really creates enough adrenaline in them to actually get focused and finish something.

Yeah, for sure. And should we go over what the Pomodoro method is? Oh, well, that would probably be smart. Yes. So it's basically like 20, you work for 25 minutes, you take a five minute break, then you work for 25 minutes, take a five minute break. And you can adjust those times. Like, I know there have been times where I've done like 50 minutes on 10 minutes off or, but the idea is you do that for a certain set of times.

Um, and ideally you do that three times, then you take a 15 minute break. Then you do it again for three times, right? Then you can take an hour break. And so if you, if you do that, it's literally like six and a half hours of working. And so you have been concentrating and working on something for almost a full workday.

And. [00:11:00] Don't the idea is that you don't feel exhausted and wiped out afterwards. So it's, it's that it's, you're pacing yourself, but I know another big benefit is because the 25 minutes is helpful because you realize like, Oh, I just wasted that first 25 minutes. Or you realize like, Oh, I just spent a full 25 minutes on this one thing.

And so it, if you're the type of person with, especially if you have ADHD, A lot of us tend to be time blind and you don't recognize how long it's taking you to do things or you easily get hyper focused on things. And this is when hyper focus backfires because you spend too long on something that you really don't need to spend that much time on.

So forcing yourself to like have that break kind of like rips you out of that hyper focus state. Um, it can be really helpful to do that. And then once you do that, oftentimes Then you're able to be like, okay, I can see this realistically now that I'm out of it. But when you're in it, it's so hard. And if you're by yourself, it is nearly [00:12:00] impossible to motivate yourself to get out of hyper focus.

Yeah. And it's, it allows you, like you said, that chance to like, when you take that break to re evaluate kind of like what you're doing. So I know Um, so we do this in my membership, we do at least four hours a month, but sometimes I do like a bonus all day one. So when we do the, we do two hours twice a month and the two hour ones, we do 25 minutes and then a five minute break, 25 minutes, five minute break.

We just do it like that. And I'm always encouraging people. Okay. It's a break, get up, get something to drink, go pee, stretch, even, you know, just something because part of that strategy, not only does it create that urgency and that focus and, and like you said, almost without fail. people that first 25 minutes.

If people are in a place of feeling really overwhelmed, that's the 25 minutes where they actually plan the rest of the time and kind of get realistic about what's going to be accomplished. By taking the breaks, you actually prevent that [00:13:00] hyper focus hangover that we get when we spend so much time on something.

And like you said, we lose track of You know, we're working so hard on something, but then we feel exhausted the next day, like extra exhausted or at the end of the day, like you're supposed to go out to dinner with friends later. And you're like, Oh my gosh, all I did is sit at a computer all day, but I feel exhausted.

Although I was, yes, that's true. I was going to say, I don't know if I've ever. Ended a hyper focused session early enough in the day to actually still usually I'm like Oh, I guess i'm eating dinner at 10 o'clock tonight because I was so focused or Lately, I feel like my problem is that I forget to eat and then all of a sudden it's two in the morning And I was like crap And then you make bad decisions about what you're going to eat, and then you're eating right before you go to bed, and all of the bad things, right?

And it's just a vicious cycle. It is a vicious cycle. But it is a fantastic strategy, and, you know, a lot of the people in the [00:14:00] membership really love it, but, um, one in particular said, like, this is worth the membership price altogether, just coming to that. Because you do have that accountability, what I'm sorry?

My people say the same thing that like, even though people, so for my business, they're coming for like strategy and usually specific answers and they want, they want tools and practical things. This is not something anyone has ever come to me looking for, um, like ever. And. Then I, I use this as like a bonus when people sign up for my courses is we'll do like a full day every other month.

Um, and, and I've actually gotten more into the full days. I've had times in the past where I had a membership and we did shorter times just because it was more regular and that made more sense. But people, yeah, they plan it out. Like they love having that full day. There are people, a lot of people who literally put it in their calendar [00:15:00] months ahead of time and stuff.

Um, and say that like they would pay for it separately even if it wasn't included as a bonus right like and there are a lot I will say to the cool thing about doing it is you you start to meet like minded people um and people who kind of need this strategy and I have had two breakout groups from, you Uh, the people in my community who do the, the all day ones, I think there's one group that meets on Saturdays and one group that meets on Tuesdays.

And so it's like, I think it's every week. It's either every week or every other week. And for about a year, they've been doing it. I know. One of your people. Because it's so helpful. Yeah, one of your people's in my membership and she said that, that the Saturday one that, that, and it's really, really helpful and, and like you're saying, what I think is really cool about yours as well, and I know people can do whatever, but yours is the get notes done because you're helping, um, you're helping therapists [00:16:00] and healthcare people work on their documentation, and so I think there's something too about when everybody's working on the same thing that can be even more motivating, I think.

You know, and I know there are probably some people that show up and say, Oh, I'm here. I'm doing X, Y, Z. Right? Yeah, but for the most part, they are doing well. And I will say a benefit of that is a lot of the people who are coming to to my days are doing it because if they show up for the whole day.

They're either doing a different task, like maybe like setting up their whole like electronic business system or something, or they're catching up on things like notes that they're behind on because most therapists shouldn't have to spend six hours in a whole week doing all of their notes. Right. So they're doing notes that like never got done from like the last month or something.

And that part is very, is actually one of the most beneficial things. The whole [00:17:00] event is that they see everyone else. is getting behind too, and it's, it's normalized and they don't feel as embarrassed because they know like, wow, there's 20 people on this zoom meeting right now. And like most of them are doing the same thing I'm doing.

Um, and so even. just knowing that other people are struggling with whatever task you're trying to do is very helpful. Exactly. Yeah. And, and again, you don't have to all be doing the same thing, but I think like you're saying, especially when there's emotional stuff or shame or any kind of overwhelm around it, that that's just an extra layer that can be helpful.

So to remember that, and I know it's something that I've been thinking about, you know, in the membership is doing a, an extra one where we're really. Focusing on like finances. Cause that's something where a lot of people like don't have their budgets together. They don't have that. So there's like a structure to it, but then we're all like doing the same [00:18:00] thing.

And it keeps you in that accountable space right now. Mine are, everybody comes and they're doing something different. And so the, what we do is we do a quick check in and people say like what they're working on and like for that 25 minute period. And then, you know, I do the timer. And they're blown away when the 25 minutes is already over.

We all are. And then I, I usually play music and try to do a little dances and entertain and try to get them to stop. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you're, you know, you're adults. So if you want to keep working, you can, but I do encourage the breaks for the reasons that we said that it actually prevents.

You from getting worn out and it keeps your mind fresh because we know like there's so much research around this You either take breaks or you you're going to take breaks and not realize it. So at least this is intentional Right, and I know sometimes there's a lot of research to back that up. So for those of you who are like Wondering about this.

It is very clear that working breaking more [00:19:00] Overall is good for productivity, really good for productivity. So this is our science based, uh, suggestions here, people. We are all, we are all up in the science up in here. So, uh, but I do think it's, it is really helpful and, you know, you kind of break it up and again, you feel this camaraderie.

I personally cannot do it alone. Like when I have tried, I've tried, I have a timer and I was like, It ain't gonna happen. I need some accountability. I also have done it once in a group. There was another group that, um, that did it, but they didn't do the Pomodoro method. There was literally no talking or check in at all.

It was just like you come on and work for as long as you want. And I'm like, Yeah, that doesn't work for me either. Like there was no even like, hey, this is what I'm going to work on. And so for me, I'm like, well, there's got to be some, like some accountability. And I actually have to feel like I care. Like if I just think I don't care if I have to tell you I didn't do it or [00:20:00] well, cause you're not even checking in anyway, I need to have a little bit of.

Like, I have to actually care about not doing the thing with you. Yes, which brings me to the point I was thinking about at the beginning of when this hasn't worked for me, which is, I think as soon as you have more than one person involved, Which is the whole point of body doubling, which is what we're talking about.

Um, so there's like coworking, which is one of body doubling strategies, right? That we're kind of talking about. Yeah. So we're talking about coworking. Yeah. And, um, as soon as you have more than one person involved, you have to have a structure. Like you've got to have somebody who's gonna, even if it's not discussed and you don't have a designated leader, you've got to have somebody that's kind of going to take the lead.

Somebody who's going to have a structure or. All hell can break loose. And I learned this, I learned this early on in college that I was usually not good at group study sessions because I am the person who will sit there and just talk about whatever and like talk to people and have a great [00:21:00] time and enjoy it.

Um. And then have to stay up till 4am doing the actual study. Yeah. And then not get it done. Now, if I was with other people who were really focused and we were all good. So I had study sessions that were good with other people. Yeah. But it was like, we all had to be very focused on what we were doing or I had study sessions, um, even in grad school where we each would actually like pick a different topic to kind of like be the expert on that week and kind of like help teach the others.

Um, and so that was a way to kind of have a designated leader each week. So. It has worked for me, but for me, I, I discovered there were certain people. I just couldn't do it with ever. And there were, uh, like people who are more like me, right. And, and there were certain groups where it was like, if I, if I didn't know we were going to have kind of like a set thing that we were really going to work on, we're gonna have a specific amount of time, all of that, then I was better off actually studying on my own.

Absolutely. Those are such great points. [00:22:00] And yeah, I have found I agree with you in grad school that I would do study sessions. I was very particular about who I would study with for that reason, because if you had that person who was like, Oh, I don't really care. And they just wanted to like talk about whatever drama was going on in their life.

And I'm like, no, right now is like study time. Like, this is my designated time. So when I'm doing that in person stuff with people, or when we've talked about, you know, previously on the podcast, like GSD days, I have learned so much about like the ideal number of people when I'm in person with people, I can't be too big a group because then I just want to be social and it has to be particular.

Like it's gotta be, it has to have a structure to it. Like you said, in somebody kind of owning that. And I think that's why. You know, having, you know, the Pomodoro method is really helpful. I do want to say though, on my, like on, um, when we do the all day one, um, that I do as a bonus, like every once in a while, we actually do [00:23:00] 50 minutes on 10 minute breaks because.

What we found is there were a lot of us who were spending our time wanted to do writing like either we're working on a book or we're doing content and 25 minute breaks were too fast because you're just getting into it. So we, you can structure it differently. I mean, there's a reason why we do 25 minutes.

Like we said there, it creates that sense of urgency and it's really great for tasky like, like things. Yeah, like if you have multiple things you want to get done throughout the day. Exactly. And, and. Even if it's like this one project, but it's something that, that they're like small. Yeah. They can be broken up into like small pieces, but when you're doing something like writing to me, that's one of those times where I've had less success in the past.

And so we have found that like 50 minutes on 10 minute break and we would, I was doing between like eight and 10 hour days on those. And that was so much better because then we [00:24:00] had that time to really get into the groove of writing but then get, you know, get that little break and kind of take that step back so that you don't sit and obsess about that one thing, right?

For sure. Yeah, I could see, like, for writing tasks, 50 minutes on, 10 minutes off could be really good, whereas, like, for editing, like, if you were going back and editing your work, you're probably better off, like, 25 and So absolutely, like, adapt it and And try it out, you know, and see what works. I also, I do think the 25 five is good too.

If you're timing yourself on things, if you're not sure how long you're taking, or you know that you're taking too long on certain things, it does, like you said, give you, gives you more of that sense of urgency. to like, Oh, okay. I already, I already used up 25, 25 of my minutes. Yeah. So if you're like, if you're doing like a time tracking study for yourself to kind of understand, cause again, that time blindness thing, right.

Where we, or even like that time bias. optimism bias where we think [00:25:00] we're going to do something so much quicker than it is. And so we want to be more realistic. And so if you're, if you're doing that and keeping track, then you're like, Oh, wait a minute, actually, I was able to accomplish X, Y, Z in 25 minutes, or actually that took me three sessions.

So I need to, in the future, give myself about an hour and a half to do something like that. So I think it can be really effective for that as well. Um, And, and, and the opposite is true where it's that, um, I always forget what principle it is, but it's the work expands to fill the time allowed, allotted. Is that Pareto principle?

That's, uh, Parkinson's principle. Oh, it's Parkinson's. You're, ugh. See, they all, all those Ps, all those principles. I know, Pareto principle is the 80 20 rule. That's right. Parkinson's principle is the, I know, is the one where, yes. Basically, if you give yourself 30 minutes, it'll take 30 minutes. If you give yourself two hours, it'll take two hours, two hours.

Exactly. I know. And it's so funny. Like there's so many of these opposite truths that happen. And it's, so it's, we understand why it's difficult to [00:26:00] navigate. I really think that body doubling and, um, and like co working or GSDing or however you do it can be super effective. I also know there are times there are certain things.

I need to not be around people and I actually focus better, but that, but that's like a whole different level of things. This, but this can be so great. Like you said, especially if there's any kind of resistance to something or you're feeling kind of sluggish. Like I do this with my friend, Melody. Where, when I'm GSD by myself and I'm like, I have three things I have to finish before going to bed.

And she literally watched we're on zoom. She watches TV, but she runs the clock for me, the 25, five. And then she plays music for me. We have a little dance party, but. I don't know why it works. It shouldn't because part of me is like, when I'm, when I'm like, fuck it, I'm like, fuck it, you know, like if I'm like, ah, I'm not doing it tonight, I'll just not do it, but for some reason it's just enough [00:27:00] structure for me and my brain's like, okay, come on, you can do this.

Like we can do anything for 25 minutes and, and I get the things done and it feels so much better. So I absolutely love the strategy. That's why I put it in. Can I point out something real quick that you said? Cause I think it was super important. So, um, you said it shouldn't like the strategy. You're like, I don't know why it works.

It shouldn't work. There are people in your life who will tell you. This makes no sense, right? Because I've had that where people who are close to me are like, I don't get this thing at all. Like this makes no sense to me. And that's because they're the type of person who doesn't need it. And that's okay.

They're probably an upholder from Gretchen Rubin, right? Yes. Yes. But so know that there, you probably have people in your life who won't get it. Um, those are not the people to body double with probably. Um, they might run a timer for you. I don't know, but you know, like. But try it, because if you have any kind of [00:28:00] neurodiversity, it is likely to work better than having no other type of structure, um, or support.

Absolutely. I totally agree with that. And I'm glad, I'm glad you said that, because it's just one of those things where I, where you forget, like, that people have all kinds of opinions. Yes. But. It works. And so I guess we've seen it work with so many people. And like I said, I, I've heard so many people talk about things they were able to accomplish and they never would have gotten done if they didn't have that kind of like focus and structure.

And I have noticed, though, like as the months go on, Um, you know, in the inner circle, people are less and less needing that 25 minute like lead in time. There are people who come already ready, right? Like they're ready. They know exactly what they're doing. But sometimes That's true. I've found the same thing.

People who come over and over again, they're like, okay. I'm ready to do this. I've got myself prepped and you get the rhythm. You absolutely get the rhythm of it. [00:29:00] So You know, it's one of and it's not and there's no shame in using that first 25 to like get you know Get yourself centered and ready because we all have that like I I even do that and I know i'm pretty good My schedule and organizing and my task list, but there are still times where I just feel overwhelmed or I'm feeling a little hormonal So my brain isn't as focused Um, you know and so it's like it takes a little bit to get in it or like last night So you and I did this yesterday And we decided for whatever reason to do 30 minutes and then a break but we did 30 minutes and And I was like, okay, I need to do this, these two things.

And I did not do either of those things because what I realized is I was in a place where I was feeling really stressed about something else and my brain just kept going to that. And, and I wasn't in the right mood. Because, uh, it involved writing. So, I wasn't in the right mood to, to write. Like, for me, I've kind of, it's a [00:30:00] balance of two things.

Like, you know, if I have to write an email, that's one thing, but I have to be in the right mood to write content. And so, I, I, I tried, I said, okay, I'm going to do it this time. And after two, I was like, I'm just going to let it go and acknowledge that I'm doing something else. And so, I focused on something else.

So, I think you, you've learned to be flexible with yourself, but. Well, and you focused on the thing that was stressing you out. Hey, let me focus on this since I'm so stressed about it and can't get it out of my head. And then we also kind of talked about like ways to, um, make things easier based on all the things you had to get done.

Exactly, which is why I do like the check in. So when I've done the groups where they just show up and, um, you know, there is no check in, I think the check in part is valuable. So another strategy, if you're doing this at home with your friends and you're on zoom and my other strategy is. I recommend, I do not force anybody, I recommend that people leave their cameras on because I think it is another layer of accountability.

Yes. [00:31:00] Because I have seen that with my coaching clients where, you know, you see them and then all of a sudden they're almost immediately they're on the phone, which happens, like the phone rings. And then they're never, and then they're not at their desk for the whole 25 minutes. And again, it can happen, but when you see it over and over and over, it's like, you're actually not focusing right now on the thing.

So like checking in with somebody to figure out like what's going on, what do you need? Do you need to shift what you're doing? Do you need like a little pep talk to get focused on this thing you're avoiding? So I think it can be really helpful to have the camera on. The only time I've ever turned it off is if I'm like, I'm starving and I need to eat and I just don't feel anyone should have to watch that.

Well, yeah, and a lot of times you just tell people that or I've had people who are like, Oh, I'm going to be answering voicemails for this, you know, the next 25 minutes. And so they just say that ahead of time. So then they're on their phone where I have people who transcribe their notes. So they are, they are actually like talking the whole time, but you know, they're muted.

Um, but you don't think that they're just like on their [00:32:00] phone chatting with their friends. You're like, oh, okay, they're getting this done. Exactly. Yeah. And I have the same thing where people say, this is what we're, what I'm doing. I'm returning intake calls or something like that. And again, there's no judgment.

It's not that we're sitting there judging, but I think it's about the perceived Like accountability. Yeah, it's a perceived accountability. So that's why I think it's so effective. Yeah. And this is helpful as a business owner for getting things done and being focused and finding. And like we mentioned, like with, with my group has had these breakout groups, like finding other people and in other business owners that you can have community with, but also you could have so many different types of businesses and have some strategy around this.

that people find helpful. Like the fact that both of us use this and have had multiple people tell us like, I would pay just for this, you know, like it is, and we've attended things that [00:33:00] are just like body doubling or coworking. So like, Almost any type of business you have. I feel like that's something that's helpful to keep in mind that people want community and accountability.

They want it to be easy and it doesn't have to be hard for you. You don't have to sit there and plan out a whole day. It doesn't have to be a workshop. A lot of times people just need time to implement things. Well, and that's thing implementation. It's like all the ideas, but there really isn't implementation time.

And it's so, so helpful. I have, I, I've been to things too, where they promised implementation time, but it was really like, so minute and it really wasn't effective. And you're like, now I'm leaving with all this work. Exactly. When you promised I wouldn't, you know, or, um, I know when we've done it at big conferences.

That's almost impossible for me. When there's a giant room full of interesting people, my likelihood of staying focused on a task is so minute. Whereas we have friends that are so good at that, that it could be the [00:34:00] Titanic sinking around them and they're just sitting there plugging away at their spreadsheet or whatever.

You know, they're so good about it. Um, and, but you got to know who you are and what works for you and what doesn't. And so I think it's like, play around with it and try it. But I, I think it's one of those, you know, ADHD brain strategies that is so helpful to have in the toolbox, like you said, for sure.

And if you have kids, like if you have ADHD and you have children, it's highly likely that at least one of them has ADHD as well. Right. So like remembering that for working with your kids, like for helping your kids to get things done or like. You know, teaching them this strategy as they get older, too.

Yeah, you know, I didn't even think about this, but my husband, again, kind of, uh, intuitively figured that out, so when he, even though nobody in my house cleans to the level that I believe they should, I'm just going to put that out there right now, but when he goes to help the [00:35:00] kids clean, You know, help, quote unquote, the kids clean their room.

What he does is he goes up there with them and then he's like, OK, how many songs do you think it's going to take us to clean up your room? Oh, that's fun. Yeah, because, you know, I, I declutter everything. So it's. Realistically, it couldn't take that long for them, even though it looks like a disaster. We don't I'm pretty good about that But he will say and then they'll go okay Three songs and then they each get to pick a song or like they pick a song He picks a song, you know and go back and forth and he does that and they just They focus during that time.

And I hadn't even really thought of that, that that's exactly what it is. And sometimes they get to the end and they have to add an extra song, which then he usually plays one that really annoys them or something, but, um, but it is, it is a really useful strategy. So I, yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up.

Like with your kids, you can do the same thing. And even just being in the room with them, not, not like harping on them, but being there. to help [00:36:00] them stay focused because yeah for sure two of my kids have ADHD and so they need that that supports that accountability like they're not alone like it's not boring because my oldest is probably an ENFP as well um and I found yeah I know like lucky you and sorry sweetie but I found this too um in September I hired a professional organizer to come to my house, because again, even though I'm really great organizing, there's always seems like there's like this one place or this one, uh, you know, thing that didn't get done.

And I just didn't have the energy for it. When she came, I worked a ton. Because I did the same, I did it with her, like she was doing her thing, but it forced me to really, uh, and I woke up early, and I was, I mean, I was organizing everything, I mean, literally everything in my house was perfectly organized, it was wonderful, but it was like three days of hyper focusing, and it was [00:37:00] fantastic.

So sometimes you might hire a professional to come and let that accountability be a motivation as well. You know, maybe you're not working on the same task, right? Like she had her things, I had my things, but it was so fantastic. And so again, get creative and realize that this can be. Used in so many different areas of your life.

Absolutely. Yeah. Workout buddies. That's body doubling, right? You know, anything where you're just kind of using other people for accountability, um, and to get things done. And that's where like, yeah, you could pay to have a coach. Some people do that, right. Like for, um, a trainer, right. Or you can have like your friend who's a workout buddy.

Like it's kind of the same thing depending on what your goals are, but you're using other people as a motivator to get something done. I love it. I love it. We might have to write a little ebook, uh, body, body doubling for bad ass business owners or something. Ooh, I like it. Got to be alliteration, [00:38:00] right?

Yeah. Well, can we fit in there? I know with your bad ass biz, bestie business owners. Booyah. Uh, exactly. Boom. Um, obviously this is fun. It's nice to have you back. It's so nice to have you and I'm sure Melissa will join us again at some point. But do you have any final thoughts or suggestions for people around the body doubling or I mean, I hope we've convinced you that you should absolutely be doing this technique.

Yeah. Right. I think, I think the biggest thing is like what we've reiterated. Over and over, which is like, try it out and adapt it and, and find what works for you because, um, other people will like it, the same thing doesn't work for everybody and just because someone is a brilliant business person or they're your business [00:39:00] coach or they're your spouse or whatever, and they might be really smart and have great ideas.

If their strategy doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. So you can find a strategy that works for you, but sometimes you got to think outside the box. So try it and try it in different ways. Absolutely. So, and just to give you a heads up, if you decide to join the Inner Circle membership in the next month, I know that in September I'm doing a bonus all day co working session.

Ooh. And, um, like I said, those we structure 50 minutes on 10 minutes off. 10 minute break, but it's, it's a great way to tackle a major project and literally finish it or work on, you know, content or some big thing. And I have people that will come for like a couple of hours. Some people come for the whole day.

It really just depends, but I want to put that out there. So I would love to see you in the membership, but you know, there's a upcoming bonus. So why not? [00:40:00] Hell yeah. Go for it. Awesome. Well, thank you again, Melissa. It was so awesome to have you back. And, uh, we wish you happy coworking. Bye. Thanks for having me.