Owning the Discomfort of Your Visibility with Sascha Schlossberg
Visibility can feel really uncomfortable. And I’d argue that the more you’re doing it right, the more uncomfortable you may feel. How so? Because that’s when you’re talking about the things that matter most to you and, likely, your potential clients.

No one said that being a business owner was easy, and if they did they were lying. You’re creating a stage for yourself when you start a podcast or a TikTok account, and the idea is to attract like-minded people to you and build a community. When you let them know how you feel about the things that matter to you, you become more human.

But that can also get pretty uncomfortable.

On today’s episode, I’m talking to Sascha Schlossberg about vulnerability, visibility, and the willingness to feel some discomfort around how you’re showing up online. We talk about soapbox rants, creating a vacuum, and the discomfort of no feedback and negative feedback. And Sascha gives you some tips on where to start putting yourself out there…so you can feel some (good) discomfort too!

About Sascha Schlossberg:
Sascha is the best in the world at helping entrepreneurs start cult-like movements through content and brand messaging. She’s advised everyone from teen influencers with millions of followers on monetization strategies to mom content creators on visibility strategies resulting in coverage by the Daily Mail, Good Morning America, and hundreds of news stations across the world.

Alongside her husband, Jonathan, Sascha created Unconventionally Wealthy, a space for discussing and creating multi-generational wealth, unconventionally. They also run the 7-Figure Content Mastermind, where they consult brilliant entrepreneurs in organic growth strategies, and they run their full household, with four children aged one to seven years old.

Links and Resources:

Time Stamps:

[2:58] – Owning your unique story
[12:39] – How visibility comes into play at this stage
[13:15] – Where to start with your visibility
[13:55] – There are no hard and fast rules
[14:58] – Fitting a big triangle into a little circle
[15:40] – What creates the community you’re looking to build
[16:54] – Just start with what feels the most fun
[19:07] – “Why am I not on TikTok?” asks Amber
[19:47] – Vulnerability and lack of engagement are inevitable
[20:26] – Be uncomfortable but not out of alignment
[22:24] – Pushing the edge of discomfort
[22:42] – You have to create the vacuum for the new people to appear
[24:34] – Be willing to be in that discomfort
[27:40] – The things that are the most bold (with purpose) tend to do really well
[28:30] – The interesting thing about rants
[30:42] – Where to start putting yourself out there
[33:20] – It’s never been more important to differentiate yourself
[34:13] – The things you post on social media are indicative of your values


Amber Hawley 0:01
Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business in life despite their type aways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a.com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional care plantation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelmed perfectionism and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. I would like to welcome to the show today, my very special guest, Sascha Schlossberg, who is pretty legit and awesome. And welcome, Sascha.

Sascha Schlossberg 0:52
Thank you. Thank you.

Amber Hawley 0:55
We had to do several takes because I couldn’t just get my words out of my mouth today. So that’s, we’re just proud of me for finally getting your name out.

Sascha Schlossberg 1:04
I actually was nervous to say my first and last name together in public post marriage because I was afraid that I wasn’t going to be able to say it myself. So most of the time, it’s butchered or just said very, very slowly intimate.

Amber Hawley 1:19
Yes, I that’s I think that’s the thing I’m so I that is my worst I hate when I mispronounce people’s names, because it’s so personal, right? And so then I don’t I get in my head. And then I was like, Oh, it’s just a mess. So anyway, well, you are awesome. And I’m very excited to have you on. But can you tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself?

Sascha Schlossberg 1:37
Yes. So the absolute shortest version is I am Sascha, I have four children, ages, currently seven and under, I run our program, which is called the seven figure content program. So we have a mastermind and a blueprint, which is a course. And my expertise is in brand differentiation, which means like helping people create the best examples like the Brene Brown daring greatly, which is her TED Talk and book or Simon Sinek. And start with why like, what is the thing that makes you stand out, because then that makes all the rest of your marketing, your lead generation, your referrals. And like everything you want to do visibility wise, so much easier. And then I created that because I’m an actor, and I wanted a way to make money that was not as soul sucking is waiting tables. That’s everything in a tiny little nutshell.

Amber Hawley 2:32
I love it. I love it. I found you because we were connected in a group. And then I joined one of your groups and, you know, watching everything that you and your husband are putting out there. And I just really loved and resonated with one. You’re very transparent about your own experiences and kind of things that you’ve been through in life. But I really also loved the focus on kind of like owning your unique story. And putting yourself out there like being boldly yourself, right like not that you’re, you might not use those words. But that’s kind of my takeaway was, the more you can really be boldly yourself, the more that you connect with and attract those people who want to work with you.

Sascha Schlossberg 3:15
I’m actually thinking, as you’re saying that I’m like, I’m always relieved when somebody else is also imperfect. Then because I think about like how we started this, and I’m like two minutes late and have to get a sip of water and my headphones and all these things. And you’re like, oh, it’s chill. I’m like, Oh, that’s right. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, podcast. But then I was like, but what is it about the people that if you don’t follow up properly, or you don’t show up or say the thing? Like, then that’s not okay, like, what does that say about that person? What is it that’s in their head, but I think we’ve all been so programmed that we must do everything in this. Now I know the word is like, neurotypical or industrial way that it must be perfect. But I don’t know that that’s necessarily it. Does anybody truly function that way? Or are we all trying to and then holding us to these expectations? Where we’re like, pod people? You didn’t do it? I’m not your friend.

Amber Hawley 4:12
Yes. Well, I’m gonna say yes, there are some people out there that do. Like having I don’t think they’re super happy all the time. But it’s no, I’m kind of joking. But I guess being a therapist for the last 16 years and before that, being in the.com world, like there are definitely people who like personality wise are much more like rule follower really structured. That kind of stuff matters to them. And I think that’s what can be hard because it’s like, if you’re not fitting that mold, or you’re somebody who’s I think most people are doing their best and you know, showing up and yeah, like I might be a couple minutes late, but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect your time, right? Like that kind of stuff. Stuff happens. And so I I think when you don’t feel judged, and you feel like that’s okay, and you find your people like, it helps us release a lot of that perfectionistic stuff. And so it’s like understanding like, this doesn’t make me a bad person. It’s just I have these other gifts that I can give you. But I show up different. And there’s always going to be people who don’t like that, right? Like, there’s always going to be we cannot please everyone. And I think that’s the part where you guys would share examples, or you would share examples of stuff that you put out, but then also stuff you helped clients with. And when they were really being super authentic to themselves, and not being in that place of perfectionism, or like, oh, it has to be the perfectly like, presented, you know, version of myself. Yeah, exactly. And so many people resonate with that, because they feel the same way. They’re kind of like tired of that. And at the same time, there is a part of us, because it’s so ingrained in our culture, too, though, that it’s like we’re attracted to it. But then we’re like, Oh, I’m not meeting that. So it’s refreshing, I think, to see imperfect people.

Sascha Schlossberg 6:04
It’s fascinating to when you said, the idea of the meaning that’s assigned to it. That part is the assumptions that can underlie these things. And then on the flip side, the self judgment that Oh, no, they think I’m this, they think I’m that when really we’re all just busy being humans.

Amber Hawley 6:24
Yes. Which I always say we’re in the wrong species per perfection. Just some people are better about holding up that facade than others. And some of us, like, I think that’s my favorite part of getting older, I feel even more free to not give a shit anymore. Because more and more, I’m like, I just I do there’s part of me that deeply cares, because I there’s that perfectionistic stuff, because I care about people. And there’s part of me that’s like, I don’t have time for that shit.

Sascha Schlossberg 6:53
Right? That’s a thing that I laugh about. Now, in my late 30s. I said that third is the other day. And Jonathan, my husband was like, 30s, I was like, you? I mean, like, he’s 10 years older than me. So I don’t know. But whatever. I’m gonna be this year 38. So apparently, that’s late third egg. No, it is whatever what I’m saying.

Amber Hawley 7:13
I know. I was like, he’s right. Still super rude. But it’s right. Hey, that’s better than my husband who like as soon as you turn like the two in the decade, he’s like, it’s a slippery slope to the next one. So when I turned like 32 is like slippery slope to 42 and 42. Slippery slope to 50.

Sascha Schlossberg 7:31
What is one of these partners that are trying to get stabbed?

Amber Hawley 7:36
Exactly. So rude.

Sascha Schlossberg 7:38
But, but I think this thing’s and I laugh about. It’s just so free and so funny and so different than what we would laugh about in our 20s 100%. I’m like, oh, people are hilarious. As they get older, this is a lot more fun. The depth of things you discuss and the actual realities. It’s like, oh, you’re you’re now some years into all of these, like by now we figured out that none of us know what we’re doing. And then it’s like, oh, there’s something freeing to all of that, and then actually discussing it.

Amber Hawley 8:15
Yes, absolutely. It’s so weird. You say that? Because I was for what I don’t know why I just found the show on HBO called Men of a Certain Age. It has like Ray Romano in it. And it’s two seasons. I don’t know if it was I don’t know when it was made. But there were only two seasons like 20 episodes. But I found myself oddly obsessed with it and watching it. And it’s about these three best friends. And they’re all basically about to turn 50. And they talked about like 50 Is your fresh start, like it’s a clean slate to start a new, like your second half or something. And I was like, yeah, maybe it is. Maybe that’s what it will be when I get there.

Sascha Schlossberg 8:53
I like that I was thinking about that I was looking at like, the further we get into entrepreneurship. The further I go, Oh, no, I don’t know anything. So I was like I was writing, I tend to batch write all my ideas. Like I have all these ideas that come to me, I’ll make little notes in my phone. And then eventually I’ll get a chunk of time to sit down, flush them all and batch out emails. That’s right now my preferred content. Platform is emails. And so one of us doing with like my experience and things I’ve learned in 20 years of managing my own finances, because from the time I was 18, I did my own taxes. But now that I’ve realized 20 years later, and like we did two months ago, we booked 100k in revenue. So these in the course of a month so the things that you would think I mean, you have it together. Oh no. Oh no, wait a minute. Apparently, there’s something I need to learn called cash flow management, right? Which isn’t budgeting it’s not your budgeting. It’s not what’s in your bank account. It’s a hybrid of the two and a whole entire strategy. Yeah, so it’s like now that so then I was like, okay, but I’m removing I’m not I feel shame about not knowing something that I needed to know, instead of like, well, these are the things that I’ve learned over 20 years. So here’s what I’m hoping I’ll learn over the next 20. And maybe what I’ll do in the 20 Beyond that,

Amber Hawley 10:12
I love that. I mean, that’s such a great approach, right? Like not to go in a place of what’s wrong with me. Why don’t I know this? Like understanding? Why would you know that? Unless you have a, I was gonna say, not an MBA, but you unless you’re a CPA,

Sascha Schlossberg 10:28
there’s people whose parents have taught them those things,

Amber Hawley 10:31
really cashflow?

Sascha Schlossberg 10:33
Yes, I have two of my clients. I mean, I have had, I have two clients that are in the financial space. And then one of them her dad taught her son rule, the 3366 rule. So a third of your money should go back should cover the cost of your, whatever you’re charging. If it’s a lemonade stand, a third of it should cover the cost of the product, a third of it should make a new one. And a third of it should be for you. And I’ll say this, so she knew that before she even went into business, nice. My mom was a stay at home mom, who’s really knowledgeable at arts and culture and writing. My dad is an astronauts, I could tell you about airplanes. Right? Right. I but I can’t like that. Those are the things that came to me. But I also I’m like, No, I’m not going to feel shame about this, either. We need to share it so more people can know

Amber Hawley 11:20
100% 100%. And I know we’re not here to talk about money today, even though man anytime we talk to entrepreneurs, right? I just want to point out though, that that’s true. You know, in the people I work with this month in my membership, we’re actually kind of doing like a financial focus. So we’re doing all these extra co working sessions and asked like, how many people have a business budget and personal budget, I already knew the answer that it was going to be most don’t because ah, having worked with entrepreneurs, even in therapy, like as couples therapist, I would help people with that, too. It’s just not something they do like or that people have learned or figured out. And they feel really bad. Like, why don’t I have that I’m like, most people don’t. So don’t judge yourself. Like we learn it, like you said, you learn it, and then you move on. And then it’s no big deal. You’ve already now I’ve mastered that. And so it’s like moving on to the next. But I do want to talk to you, because I think you have this genius when it comes to building your brand and really helping others kind of grow and leverage what they’re doing. Specifically, it seems like on social media to kind of grow their businesses. And I think this is a question that’s always coming up for people. One, you know, as so many entrepreneurs, as we’re in those stages of growing our businesses, visibility ultimately comes into play, right? Like you can finally perfect all this stuff, you know, perfect. I’m doing air quotes here, quote, you can feel really good about your, how you get everything set up, you know, your stuff. But it’s like, then how do you reach people? And so, and the big thing I get from so many people like the you know, the easily distracted entrepreneurs is like, how can I make this feel like it’s useful? So I don’t just feel like I’m spinning my wheels, but realizing I still have all this other stuff I have to take care of in my life. So what would you be your suggestion for people who are saying, Okay, I know I need to get more visibility, I need to grow the people who are seeing my stuff? Where would you tell them to start with that? I know, that’s a pretty big question. I like to start super huge. I like to start real big, by the way.

Sascha Schlossberg 13:26
And now we begin our college course.

Amber Hawley 13:29
Exactly. By the way, 15 minutes.

Sascha Schlossberg 13:33
I have my slide deck. So I mean, it’s funny because sometimes my answers I like to acknowledge are sometimes a little infuriating, because most people are out there going post this many times pick this platform, this is the thing. And really, none of that is true, there are no hard and fast rules, what most people are teaching is what’s worked for them, or perhaps what’s working in the moment, but the algorithms and the platforms are constantly shifting. So everything is pretty much immediately outdated. So what I recommend is what works for the person what seems the most fun, and then there’s rules between each of those. I mean, I am largely relieved that tick tock, it has gained traction, not because I’ve been utilizing it, but because it’s a space for imperfection. It’s a space where you can grow an audience for whatever your randomness is. And for a lot of people that have spent years hopping between platforms or trying different things, they can create things over there. Whereas Instagram like you had to have so much of a curated feed, or show up with just your teaching. And there was all this emphasis on Instagram on niching but that can feel one dimensional for the easily distracted who are generally very dimensional people. That’s the other issue too. Is it some of it can really feel like fitting a big triangle into that little circle. When you go well, how do I encapsulate myself on social and it’s not that but that’s what most people are teaching are. Okay, we’ll come up with your the things that are you know your main pillars, so your fitness and your home decor. But that doesn’t end up working, at least not for there are plenty of people that just want a big audience. And so they perhaps have the passion and the interest to just take booty photos for their fitness account, right? But for everybody else, okay, maybe their fitness is a part of their bigger picture. And why is that thing important? It’s the y’s that underlie everything, are what actually those are the themes. Those are the things that create the community create that feeling of the person who’s reading, it feels like they know you, that’s what brings a connection that then causes people to want to take an action to work with you. So yeah, you have to sell in between there. But it’s ultimately about that unique combination of who are you? What are the funny random things about you. And it doesn’t matter how random or weird it is, it’s going to attract people. But then I’ll also acknowledge, I’m going to talk for 15 straight minutes, I acknowledge that people do struggle with the idea of, but it doesn’t have anything to do with my business because people don’t care, which also ties into why everybody on social has their tagline is I help blank do blank, and nobody cares. So when people come and work with me, I’m like, we’re gonna work on this. And then it causes like a non literal, nervous breakdown. Because they go, oh, wait a minute. It’s all deeper than this. And what do I say? It’s like, well, it’s all iterative. So we just start, let’s just start by saying the things, let’s have fun. And then you see what works. And then you can iterate, and everything is always changing. But accepting that accepting that, yeah, it can be fun. And I’m not gonna say it’s all fun, because it is a business. So there does have to be some structure. But ultimately, overall, like, this is the internet. We’re having businesses on the internet. So what feels the most fun and start with there for your platform? And what you’re talking about?

Amber Hawley 17:22
Yeah, I mean, well, you just said a lot there. Cuz, like you said, I think there’s some people are going, you know, they’re all like, crunching up, like, oh, but that’s the opposite of all the courses I bought. And I don’t know. And, yeah, and it can feel scary. It’s like, Yeah, I’d like to do that. But then they don’t understand who I am or what I do, or that kind of, you know, I know, I know, because, one I’ve been there. Many a course, yes, that I’ve partially completed. And it’s that balance, like you said, of, I want to like own my unique self. And it’s very vulnerable, like when I put myself out there to get negative feedback. And actually, most time, that’s not happening until you’re bigger, I think, but, or getting no feedback. It just feels like no one loves me, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. So it’s so vulnerable. And at the same time, you’re like, okay, but I also want to show that professional side of me and so I think it is a real, real big struggle. But I I think that’s why again, why I was like, I liked what you were talking about a lot. I think I remember when you were talking to people about changing their, their like little bio line or whatever. And I you know, I got distracted. So I stopped. And I literally added like, professional squirrel chaser. And then that was it. I didn’t finish changing. So I still have the rest of that formula. But the other formula, but yeah, it’s one of those things where it’s like that struggle of I know it, I see it when people are authentically themselves. They do attract the people that are wanting them and it’s so scary and vulnerable, right? Like it’s hard. I appreciate what you say about tick tock. For me. I’m like how the hell am I not on tick tock, I love everything about dancing and music that is literally part in in LinkedIn. My bio thing includes like, professional dance party starter, like it’s my legit. I will spend the whole I just was at a conference in Arizona in October. And I literally danced the entire time. If there’s music, I’m dancing. That’s all I cared about. I don’t care if I look like a half in crazy person. It was wonderful. That was my favorite part that in the people but it was so fun. And so it’s like, why am I not on that? Because but I like that you say like it’s a place to really like, explore and try things out. And it doesn’t have to be as perfect.

Sascha Schlossberg 19:41
Yeah, I could like I could talk about tick tock but I think what’s more important is the the vulnerability and the lack of engagement, because those things are inevitable with it. I mean, you think about if you listen, for example, I don’t normally talk a lot about Brene Brown, but in this case, I think

Amber Hawley 19:59
you’re legally allowed obligated when talking with therapists, you actually have to talk about her.

Sascha Schlossberg 20:05
It’s in the contract is is. So she spoke about in her I think it’s in her Netflix special perhaps, where she spoke about doing the talk feeling completely rollerball and naked and then finding out it went viral. And it can go both ways you can post things that. Okay, so we were building out, we had an instructional designer in our program. And finally, she was like, oh, oh, I see what you do. Well, I need that. So she’s helping me create an entire course. I’ve literally just recorded modules last night around the feelings of safety and vulnerability when you’re showing up and creating it. So there’s different kinds of vulnerability because but and that’s, for our own discernment, like you could share something that’s inappropriate. That’s completely off brand or manipulative, right? So we’re not talking about that we’re talking about sharing something that is perhaps the kind of joke that you would only make with your friends. And so Jonathan did that last night, we were being completely ridiculous. He was like, Okay, I say late. We have four kids, it was probably 730. But we’re making a joke. When he asked, we were going to talk and I was anywhere making us making innuendo. But I use the word PPEs. And he’s like, what’s, and so I was cracking up because I was insisting that it’s a generic term for genitalia. He’s insisting it’s not, but he took a picture of me cracking up posted it to social with my quote, which is not but it is hilarious. It’s not the sort of thing I post, but it’s if you know, me, that’s completely my humor, potty humor, Pete Davidson jokes and Bible study, like, that’s where I will take things. So he posted it, and I felt a little uncomfortable. But it wasn’t out of alignment. Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely. And it’s the same thing that I could post something some of my I did a post over a year ago. It’s like how to be a pro marketer. And it was 10 different things that are and I was very amused by it. But I was terrified to post it. But it did really well. People thought it was hilarious. And I got a client out of it. Like somebody shared it in a group. And somebody found me from that. So the things that are uncomfortable, generally, those stem from there’s a couple of things, but the most prevalent ones are people are generally afraid to offend their peers. Yes. Which is hilarious, because the peers aren’t going to buy from you anyway. And so I’ll give an example of for me personally, when I first started out selling the seven figure content programs, one of the big hills that I would die on is that you don’t need a content calendar, because anybody that’s talking about social provides a content calendar. And I have friends that own social media agencies. So that could potentially be super offensive. But I’m not an offensive person by nature, and my friends know me. So they will show up. And they’ll comment and be like, I disagree, which is fine, because it’s banter. They know where and they’re not offended by it. And if they are, I mean, they know that it’s business, and they know that it’s marketing. So and I’m going to go even more bold with my messaging that’s coming out. Well, today ish, if I have time to sit down and write it out. But I have more messaging that is even more bold, but it is always pushing the edge of discomfort. And the funny thing about it is, is sometimes you’ll say the thing, and for a long time it was you don’t need a content calendar for probably a year. But then once you get past that you go, oh, there’s actually something even beyond that. But unless you say whatever that first thing is it makes you feel uncomfortable, vulnerable naked, then you won’t get to your deeper messaging or whatever that next thing is. And that discomfort is a very, very normal process. But as well, you might experience a lack of engagement, which is normal, because sometimes it’ll shock your audience. And they’ll go, maybe that’s a fluke. I’m just going to ignore that. And then you might even get some pushback, sometimes, like for example, for me, when I first started talking about racism, people are like, of course, you know, the white dudes from high school show up well, actually,

Sascha Schlossberg 24:30
no, we’re not gonna do this. But the other thing about that is other people show up out of the woodwork and then sometimes they’ll just, you know, fight the battle for you. And then eventually the people go, Oh, all right, well, she’s going to talk about this thing, whether it’s anti racism or whether it’s not needing content, calendars, and then your audience adjusts and the people that resonate with it show up, but just like so I’m having nearly 10 years sober just like sobriety. You have to create the vacuum you have to get rid of you know, release the party girl in To become a woman, you have to create the vacuum for the new people to appear. But you have to be willing to be in that discomfort and probably have a therapist to guide you through it because I do I have mental health support, because that’s a major part of it.

Amber Hawley 25:16
Oh, absolutely. And that’s part of that. I think entrepreneurship, there’s so many ups and downs, but like you’re saying, and stuff like this, when you’re pushing those edges, it is about getting uncomfortable sometimes. And yeah, like getting comfort with that, and then pushing again, like not going so far that it feels like literally have that breakdown, but pushing yourself enough where it’s like, really uneasy and scary. And yeah, and then, you know, I like your approach with even when people disagree with you, I think it’s always when you can tell people disagree with you. And it’s an intellectual thing, or they are going for the jugular, like they’re being thoughtful about it and respectful. Like, I think we fear the ones that are going to go for the jugular, and maybe hit on some of our own stuff, where we already feel vulnerable or, you know, insecure in like certain areas. And so, I agree with you, I think that’s a piece of that growth. And I like what you say about as we do that, that’s when we get to the core of our messaging. And I think that’s the important part. Because as business owners, I think I’ve always said messaging is like one of the most important things because it’s letting people understand how you help them, but like for them to really understand what’s going on for themselves as well. And that’s how you’re really helping people like I think that’s the sweet spot where everything the magic happens. And it’s hard to get there. Like it takes some time. It takes some pivots, it takes some shedding of layers of the onion, so to speak. And now I want to go back and talk about Brene. Again, because it just, she talked about even that the latest book, she talked about that having to revisit all the things she knew to be true and things she had written and cut, you know, like shutting all of that it is a process for everyone. So yeah, I like that you put it out there. It’s one of those things, though, I feel like I might have seen that bro marketing thing a year ago, that might have been what it was for me. But that attracted because I do like that because we do talk about that with our friends. Or when I can see everyone I’m talking to and read their faces. Then I’m like, Oh, I went too far on that one, I shall back up a little bit, you know, but when you can’t on social, you’re like black. So I tend to not do that except in my personal space. But I think that’s what I loved about it again, that start doing that more in the public space. And that’s where a lot of like growth and magic happens.

Sascha Schlossberg 27:38
The things that are the more most bold as long as there’s a point to it, they tend to do very well. But bold with purpose, not just you know, bold for no reason.

Amber Hawley 27:52
Oh, I agree.

Sascha Schlossberg 27:55
Like, like, like a complete lack of filter is not bold with purpose.

Amber Hawley 28:01
I’m literally picturing like three people in my mind right now that I’m connected to where I have now since unfollowed them because I just can’t see their shit. But we’re just feels like everything is just to be divisive. And it’s like, that’s so appealing, because it just feels like you’re being ranty and it really is just for like shock and awe and whatever. As opposed to this. I’m talking about this because it’s important to me or there’s like you said there’s a purpose to I love that distinction.

Sascha Schlossberg 28:28
So you know, there’s something about about ramps that are interesting. And and something that I’ve said that I think is a really, I feel like something I’ve said this a great prospective knock.

Amber Hawley 28:42
I say shit like that. Also, I’m like, Oh, this is brilliant.

Sascha Schlossberg 28:49
The thing about ranting is, sometimes things need to be set. But what is the point of saying it? Because that dictates what the end result is? Because you can get an audience up in arms. But I maintain the assumption that your audience can either have a pitchfork or credit card. So you want to choose wisely. Do you want a bunch of people with pitchforks because cool. You could sell them some bumper stickers, and some shirts, but if you want to sell them like into a business, then you need to color how you share whatever it is.

Amber Hawley 29:28
I think that’s a fucking tweetable like do you want them to have a pitchfork or credit card? Also, the People’s pitchforks, they can turn on you. Yes, we’re all Rayji together, but no, I love that. I think that seriously, that’s a tweetable right there. If I tweeted, I don’t tweet. I’m not a tweeter. That’s too much overwhelming. That’s a mic drop moment. That’s what I’ll say because I will drop a mic but I will not tweet. Yeah. Again, I like that. I like the idea of this isn’t just to be divisive or to be shocking. Unless you’re a comedian, like, I guess, then you go for that. But if you’re running a business, it is about connecting and letting people know how you really feel about things. I love that. I think it’s fantastic. So I guess for people who are like, Okay, I hear you, I hear you, Sasha. And I want to try to be more bold in that and not not follow this, you know, prescription or this formula, and really try to connect with people. And they’re like, Okay, so then what? Where do I start? How do I get to that place? Again, I’m gonna go back to these big questions. Where would you suggest that they start with that?

Sascha Schlossberg 30:41
People usually have something that they’re not saying that they could say, if there’s the thing that somebody goes, Okay, I’m gonna answer this, like 25 different ways, and that people can pick which one works the best. So on one hand, you could say, what are some things that are really wrong with the other way people do things within your industry? Because we all know that there are 1000s, if not millions of people that can get your ideal client to the same end result using a different methodology. So how is your different slash? What’s wrong with there’s, those are really good ways to show up, because those are authority positioning as well, because you’re showing that you have a breadth of knowledge. And you’re available as a thought leader ish resource. So that’s helpful for that, as far as on the opposite side of things that are perhaps getting helping people get to know you, and increasing engagement, are asking people’s opinions on things that you actually care about. And I don’t necessarily mean deep things. I mean, like, Hey, I’m considering getting a floor vacuum like a Roomba. Does anybody have any a recommendation. So that which is sounds very silly, but it’s a great way. And plus, I mean, that’s how we found our coffeemaker is, really, so this is sometimes the things that you’re Googling, or the TV shows that you’re watching, like, people will try to hack the algorithm by like, share the link to your business. But really, you could just share a question that you currently have to your audience, and then get feedback. And if you’re in this isn’t asking like, hey, which professional headshot? Do you like better, where it’s like, you don’t have a business coach or a trusted person to run that past? It’s not like that. We’re like, hey, what do you all think of my file? My tax plan? Not that, what do they think about something that doesn’t like random things, those are actually really good and creative. They’re great for engagement, but they’re great for connection. And it’s always it’s a mixture of those things, the things that build your authority, or I like to call the hills you’ll die on which could be nobody needs a content calendar, everybody should do tapping, most people are doing blank wrong. Or it could be like, I like candy corn and black licorice. And I will fight. You know what I mean? Like they can be any variety of things. And the other thing is, is I feel like I can hear people going, what does that have to do with my business? I can share it, I can hear it.

Amber Hawley 33:13
I can to I’ve actually has it happens.

Sascha Schlossberg 33:17
But the thing is, is that people because there are so many people that can get your client to the desired end result, they want to work with somebody that they actually feel like they know and they connect with, it’s never been easier to build a business online, which means it’s never been more important to differentiate yourself.

Amber Hawley 33:35
Yeah. And I think that’s where I’m hearing a lot from people where they’re just feeling so like, exasperated with social because it’s like, they feel like they’re talking to the wind. Yeah, nothing is happening.

Sascha Schlossberg 33:48
And so here’s this if nothing is working, why not try something crazy? This seems like it’s not gonna make sense.

Amber Hawley 33:56
Yeah, no, I love that. Well, yes, this you know, what is that the definition of insanity? You keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result? Like, what do you have to lose? Why not?

Sascha Schlossberg 34:06
And I’ll say this, I mean, when I consider the very first business coach that I hired, here, I will think of it this way, the things that you post on social are indicative of your values. So if I’m like, hey, what’s the best protein powder? Well, that means something about me that I’m searching for a protein powder, if I am searching for, because I did last year, my thing for the years buying all my clothing secondhand, so when I’m asking for different ideas, then people are getting to know some things about me. Yeah, so those things do like where people sometimes they purchase that they buy into programs or courses that are not the right fit, and that’s generally because everything is created, but the underlying thing underneath that’s repetitive whatever is underneath foundationally to what somebody creates is their own value set, whether it’s we all need to work a lot of hours, or this should be as easy as possible or fun must be mandatory, or whatever that thing is colors, how the thing is created. So when somebody buys into something and their values don’t align, it’s not going to be a good fit. And it’s neither person’s fault. But some of that can be prevented by content, when you can look at somebody’s content and go, Oh, they’re a 4am club member. So odds are, if I buy their thing, that’s not what I want. So somebody showing up and saying they work get up at 4am versus somebody saying they work 10 hours a week, you get to pick the person based on know like those values and those things color. It’s, I know that there have been studies recently that disprove some of the lizard brain theories, there’s still the idea that you are going to make a selection emotionally, then back it up logically. That’s still going to happen. And so some of those things are still like, oh, yeah, I picked my business coach, because she also runs a business and homeschool. So I know she’s not going to tell me to just put my kids in school.

Amber Hawley 36:11
Exactly. Yeah, I know, that comes up a lot. It was funny that I just had a new client new coaching client sign up. And so one, I don’t think she did a lot of research on me, which I was like, Well, that sounds like what I do, I have often not vetted people. And then there are times I get in, I’m like, Oh, a little more due diligence was an order here. I have a great example of that, that ended up being such a shit show. But I’m like, Hey, that was my fault. My bad pay for it move on, you know, whatever. Yep. But it was funny because like, she came back in emailed and she was saying, like, I don’t want like a cheerleader type. Like, I don’t want that rah rah, rah, whatever. And I was like, let me assure you, I have no news. Any facts? I almost got fired from Victoria’s Secret because I wasn’t fucking, you know, like, rah rah stuff. And I was like, I am selling the shit out of this stuff. Why do I have to be rah rah in order for you to accept that? Yes. So it’s one of those things where I agree. I think, you know, I give that example to say like, I think it’s true that the people who are spending some time getting to know you a little bit better. Like that’s going to be the stuff that we’re and helps them kind of tip them over the edge like, do I want to work with this person? Will this be a good fit for me? I want somebody who’s not going to be telling me oh, this is what you have to do. When I know that’s the one thing I don’t want to do.

Sascha Schlossberg 37:28
Right? Yes, yeah. Yeah. What is what is it truly like to work with you? And letting people know that via your content is also an amazing way? What’s the process? Like? Are you going to insist that I, you know, create a blog? Or are you going to tell me that this must be inner child work? Like, what are the things that differentiate you? In your process? All of these things are what create the brand differentiation. And then the more you show up and talk about all these things, then you actually get to create a refined message that then other people can share. And it makes every other because otherwise, then, if you’re not doing that, then it’s still the hamster wheel of well, how often should I post? Yeah. Which platform should I use? It’s like, it doesn’t matter what you do, you’re gonna yell at the wind, or shake your fist at the sky. If you’re not saying anything that people want to know. And they don’t want to be educated, they can be educated anywhere. So it’s like, what are you doing on social then? I could clearly talk about this all day.

Amber Hawley 38:28
I know, I know. I was like, Oh, I know. We’re, I’m being respectful of time, we’re coming to the end of the hour. But I was like, it’s such a it is a really good conversation. And, you know, I’m glad that you’re talking about in this way of looking at it very different. And there have been times as I’m working with clients, I say something, it’s kind of similar to that where I’m like, Well, if you’re not doing it all, and then I’m telling you, let’s do it. small chunks, like once a week or something. And they’re like, well, that’s not enough. And I’m like, but you’re not doing it at all. So I get your your expectation is doing 20 times or whatever, I’m making up the thing. But yeah, like I’ve had these conversations over and over. I’m like, so once a week is better than zero, but there but we hold in our heads that it has to be this certain way. So giving yourself permission really looking at the absurdity of that like, okay, I can say I have to do it like this, but I’m never gonna do it. So why don’t I just try it the other way and see what happens. And as I say, with social like, unless you’re somebody like Brene Brown, hashtag, this is Bearnaise podcast episode. I don’t think she needs any more notoriety. But no, unless you’re like her most people, if you put something out there, you can always take it down. You can always delete it. Guess it always stays out there in the world somewhere. But most people aren’t going to care. Because it’s not like unless you have this giant audience, like they’re not going to find it. And again, I’m making an assumption you’re posting something that maybe you felt a little vulnerable about, not something you’re ashamed of. We’re not talking about that right? Yeah, like, you know, those kinds of things we’re just talking about, you’re experimenting, and then you’re like, I’m going to take that down. But to remember,

Sascha Schlossberg 40:08
and experiment, I leave it all up. Because if you’re not cringing at the stuff you did in the past, you’re not growing. I look back on my memories and just cringe and I’m like, okay, but that’s part of growth. So we’re good.

Amber Hawley 40:20
Well, that is an excellent growth mindset. And that is, I think that’s the stance to take with all of it. And it was funny, because somehow, I don’t know how this happened. But my personal Facebook page got connected to my Instagram, which I’m using more for business. And randomly, not every single time randomly, it’s posting things to my Instagram that I meant for my personal people. Oh, yeah. I’m like, What the hell because like, people were commenting, I was like, Oh, shit, and then I’m like, do I delete it? I think there was one thing I did delete, because I just thought, what the hell like how did this get up?

Sascha Schlossberg 40:52
My I posted a Pete Davidson meme to my personal Facebook and it auto sent to Instagram. Yes. And so I just commented, because I started getting likes, and I just commented, I go, Well, this was an accident. But I got comments, people were like, This is hilarious. I thought, you know, like, whatever. I’m going to leave it because now everybody can know that. I find Pete Davidson hilarious.

Amber Hawley 41:16
Yes, I know. And that I swear they change something because that has just recently been happening to me and saying when, like, when people respond, you’re like, okay, it almost takes that anxiety away. But I do like that idea of saying like, Okay, it’s alright. I always tell people, though, if it’s so painful for you, then you can take it down. Most people aren’t like screenshotting. And, and it’s gonna stalk you with it or whatever, you know, but that’s kind of the beauty of the internet, sometimes the impermanence or the ability to change things, if that helps you at all listener to say, Okay, I’m going to try something a little more bold, be a little more radical be true. True inside my whatever it is. My thing is and put myself out there.

Sascha Schlossberg 41:57
Hopefully an adventure. It’s all an adventure.

Amber Hawley 42:00
Yes, absolutely. And that makes it more fun. That’s my big thing. That’s my big value system. Like it’s let’s have adventures. Let’s have fun. Let’s do it. Yeah, well, obviously, I think people are gonna be like, well, I want to hear a little bit more about what this Pete Davidson loving Roomba purchasing person puts out in the world. And I’m pretty sure you had everyone at bro networking. But if they wanted to find out more from you, where would they go?

Sascha Schlossberg 42:30
Since my name is murder to spell, I would probably say our Facebook group. So I have a special link it’s group.unconventionallywealthy.co.

Amber Hawley 42:43
Awesome. And of course, we will list this and all of the show notes. But that is the group that I joined as well the free group to join and where you get to see all of the thought provoking stuff and the occasional PP humor, so

Sascha Schlossberg 42:58
tampons are my friend.

Amber Hawley 43:03
Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. I think this is a really powerful message about embracing that growth mindset, really not stressing over all the little things and it’s like, you know, just experiment. So thank you. Thank you for coming.

Sascha Schlossberg 43:19
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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