Rather than record a solo episode (which she knows is a big challenge for me), she suggested that someone interview me for the episode. And since she’s a podcaster too, she was the perfect candidate for this!
This week on the podcast, Abby Herman, podcast manager and owner of The Content Experiment, interviews me on my own podcast to talk about how my business has changed over the years, how podcasting has impacted my business, what I’ve learned in the last 150 episodes, and what I’d do differently if I had to start over today.
Of course, we cover a whole lot more in this episode, and it was so fun to hear some of the insights that Abby has had over this last year of working together. Be sure to tune in!
About Amber Hawley:
Amber Hawley is a licensed therapist, multiple biz owner and former tech industry drop out who works with high-achieving, easily distracted entrepreneurs with mindset and strategies to stop suffering for success. As host of the Easily Distracted Entrepreneur podcast (yes, we’re going meta here!), she supports ADHD {and ADHD-ish} business owners who live in Distraction City to overcome shiny object syndrome.
Links & Resources:
Time Stamps:
[2:45] – Being a multipassionate entrepreneur
[11:50] – Team and support networks help with consistency
[13:08] – Life is constant change and transition
[14:00] – Go back to what you know works
[14:51] – The pros and cons of different styles of podcasting
[18:52] – You can stop doing solo episodes when you’re at Oprah status
[21:36] – Podcasting is a huge confidence booster
[23:15] – This business shit is hard
[24:29] – There’s a difference between confidence and arrogance
[26:13] – False vulnerability is icky
[27:02] How the podcast has changed the business
[29:25] – mission of podcast influenced mission of biz
[33:05] – Everything transitions and changes
[35:03] – How to get big names on the podcast
[36:33] – Fangirling works!
[37:25] – How Amber fangirled (stalked, maybe) Pat Flynn
[40:15] – Don’t interview the douche canoes
[41:16] – Do more of what brings you joy
[45:20] – Be thoughtful and caring about who is on your podcast
[45:55] – It’s about what value can I deliver to my audience
[50:12] – Slow down and create more foundation
[53:45] – Keep the excitement going
[54:28] – I continue because of the people who are listening
Transcription:
Amber Hawley 0:01
Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business and life despite their type aways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a.com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional care for entation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelm perfectionism and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you.
Amber Hawley 0:41
Hello, hello, my fall fanatics, it is officially October, if you’re listening to this episode, when it comes out. Today is a big day of celebration for a couple of reasons. One, it is my 20 year wedding anniversary. We’ve been together 25 years, but today is 20 years of marriage, which really feels impossible, I have to tell you, because I’m like, so friggin young. I don’t understand how that happened. And so yes, shout out to us for 20 years. And also another significant number thing. This is episode 150 of the podcast. And, you know, I’m not typically great about celebrating milestones, which I’m trying to get better about, because that’s, that’s all part of perfectionism, you know, achieving things and moving on, but it’s because I have such a great team. And they really point out like, hey, 150 that’s, you know, that’s a nice round number. Do you want to do something? You know, I was like, Sure.
Amber Hawley 1:48
So today, I have a special treat, because one of my favorite people, Abby Herman is going to be interviewing me for episode 150, where I talk about the lessons that I’ve learned in business and in podcasting over 150 episodes. So I’m hoping to share some nuggets and of wisdom with you. And without further ado, welcome, Abby.
Abby Herman 2:15
Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. And to do this, and we were talking before you hit record, I don’t think that I’ve ever done this before interviewed somebody on their own podcast. So this is fun.
Amber Hawley 2:28
So I was like, this is going to be so great.
Abby Herman 2:31
Yeah. So we will just dive right in. Because that’s what we do. That’s what that’s what I do. I’m gonna dive right in. So before we truly get into the lessons and all of that, can you talk a little bit about the different parts of your business? Because easily distracted entrepreneur is not the only thing that you do? You kind of are multi talented, and you are definitely a multi passionate entrepreneur. So can you share a little bit about, I don’t know, maybe the pieces that your regular listeners may not know about?
Amber Hawley 3:04
Sure. Let’s see, I do feel like, there’s that part of me. That’s like, I’m sure I’ve talked about this stuff. But I guess, you know, when I started in business in 2011, so that is now like, what, 1112 years, I don’t even know because, you know, the year is almost over. And I started my therapy practice. And then. So that was I was like, Okay, that was my first foray into being a entrepreneur and figuring it all out. And I loved it, like I, you know, I had been a.com dropout, which I talked about, and I started to just immerse myself in all things like business building and found Marie Forleo. She was like, my first person. And yeah, so I started my therapy practice. And then once I was licensed two years, because you have to wait two years to supervise, I had somebody approached me about supervising and I ended up building a group practice. And so all this time, I’ve had a group therapy practice, which I always say it has been my bread and butter, like, that’s the business that grew the biggest and paid for everything it paid for all of my adventures. And so I had other therapists that work for me, I continue to see clients and kind of transition out and then, you know, three years ago moved to across the country and still see my clients virtually. So I still have that, although that business is transitioning, I decided, because there was, you know, there was transition people moving and so leaving the practice, and I had wanted to sell it, but you know, COVID kind of screwed me on that one. And I was like, I don’t want to do this anymore. Like I don’t want to have a group therapy practice. So I decided to kind of close that chapter. And so now I’m transitioning, you know, just I’m just a solo person again, which is kind of nice. Then I have of course, this This business, well, maybe I’ll start well, I’ll just do couples fix. So couples fix because my specialty in therapy is one of them is seeing couples. And I love working with couples. So I started couples fix to do like relationship coaching. And my goal with that is really, to start releasing podcast episodes regularly again, but you know how it is when you’re multi passionate, and you overload yourself? And then you’re like, Okay, no, I have to keep the pin in that one, as I say, and then, you know, so I have that. And the goal is to have like courses, or retreats and different kinds of things, and doing relationship coaching. And then there’s this one, this is, you know, started off as it’s kind of morphed many times, because in a way, I did start a business coaching business. And it was under, you know, Amberhawley.com. And then, then I decided to start a passion project with the podcast with Melissa. And we started my biz bestie podcast. And you know, it’s all kind of like, come full circle and transition. So now, this business, I do consulting for corporations, I do speaking, I have the podcast, of course, and I do coaching, and I have a membership, and do a lot of trainings. So I mean, it’s really fun, because I get to do so many different things. But they’re all in alignment, because they’re all serving like the same type of client. And I don’t know. So it’s like, it feels good. And that’s kind of I think we’re like through all this transition, I really want to just continue to simplify my business. So I think even in the next year, I can see that transitioning and simplifying even further. But right now I’m, I’m still kind of doing a bunch of different things as I build and grow.
Abby Herman 6:49
I love it. And and so the podcast was, you originally started with a co host, and it was called my biz bestie. It was a passion project. So why the transition into where the podcast is right now.
Amber Hawley 7:06
Yeah, so it’s funny. And I know in earlier episodes, Melissa, and I share, like, what led us to start the podcast, and I was gonna look up before twice, I tried to look up how many episodes we did together before I transitioned. But of course, I forgot to continue that. I didn’t actually do it.
Abby Herman 7:25
easily distracted. Is that what you’re saying?
Amber Hawley 7:27
I am totally easily distracted. I mean, that’s part of the thing, right? Like, it’s not about like, you’re not gonna come work with me and all of a sudden become a robot, you’re still a human being. We’re gonna have more fun, we’re gonna do it less, you know, all that. But yeah, so Melissa, and I started it as a passion project for people. And we called it my biz bestie. Because we were seeing so many people were feeling really isolated and lonely. And obviously, both as both of us being therapists, it’s like, we understand the power of having that social support network. So we wanted to start that. And so we’re like, okay, that’s a good idea. And we had gone to Podcast Movement. With Ken, we had, neither of us had a podcast, but we had decided this like a month beforehand. And we both we joined Pat Flynn’s course on launching a podcast and, and we’re like, Okay, we’re gonna do a podcast, you know, because we thought about other things. And we’re like, No, this, this is what we’re going to do, which I think before that, that June or July, I don’t think it was necessarily on our radar, but then it became our radar. So we went and just loved the community. I think the podcasting community is so amazing, like, just really diverse and creative. And we were both going to start our own solo shows. And then we had talked about when it be fun to do something together and do this, like passion project. And, you know, we’ve said many times, if we had tried to do the solo, first, we would have lost steam, we would have been, we would have been part of the statistics of pod fade. I think that I think the average number of episodes for a podcast is like eight. It’s either eight or nine. It’s something like that. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. And so we’re like, yeah, okay, let’s do this. And, you know, we got some feedback from Michael Stelzner. He’s like, this is magic, you need you to need to do this, you know, because we just, you know, we’re both ENFPs we love hanging out together. So we started that, but we really were like conscious of, hey, we both have a couple other businesses a full plate, but we want to do this and we want it to be fun. So we were like, Let’s do it sustainably so we decided to do seasons. And so was really cool is we would do like 16 episodes, it was basically like four months on two months off, and we would batch record as much as possible and then did some interviews. And you know, so it made it easy. And then we got to have fun together and it was great, you know, but then you know when we were coming up on our, our guests that was our was after three years. We were supposed to record and Melissa and I did an episode where we talk about this. She was going through life transition at the time, and she needed a step back Just because she couldn’t keep going, like she was, you know, she had a lot going on in personally and was like, Yeah, I just can’t do it. And so, you know, obviously, it was disappointed, but then almost like, I was like, That sucks. Because I, I would have continued to do it with her because I adore her and it and it’s so easy with a co host. That’s the thing, I’m so grateful, because that’s where I know that if it had just been me with how overloaded I was, I wouldn’t have been as consistent without the co host at first, right? So then I quickly was like, you know, this is an opportunity to do that thing that I was always going to do on my own anyway. And so I continued on, but it was like the, it was the pandemic, you know, had hits. And so it was like, Okay, I need to get some episodes. And it was just a lot like, I still I wasn’t back in my groove. It wasn’t my on my plan. And so I was kind of inconsistent. And then I’m like, Okay, I just need to find the right people to kind of support me. And then I was having a conversation with my friend, Carol Cox. And she, she was, she’s like, You need to change the name, you need to call it the easily distracted entrepreneur, because I was talking about the clients that I help and serve and, like the things that I do for people. And she’s like, Yeah, that’s what it should be. Oh, and you know, and I was writing a book. So I was like, ah, like, That makes so much sense. So, so yeah, so it’s like, again, it goes back to this support network of I am surrounded by such amazing people who, like, that I get to brainstorm with or, you know, give me feedback, or can give me perspective outside of me, and, you know, my little our narrow tunnel that we sometimes can have. And, yeah, so then it became this, and then again, was going through transition with team and kind of feeling frustrated and try to get, you know, started some momentum finally, in September of last year, I think, and then you came on board in October. And, and you know, the rest is magic.
Abby Herman 12:07
And we’ve had, we’ve had consistent episodes every week since right I know, we’ve missed a week,
Amber Hawley 12:13
we’ve not missed a week,
Abby Herman 12:14
even even weapons and holidays and all of that,
Amber Hawley 12:18
even when I’ve struggled and you had to like you know, send an enforcer, I had to find a horse head in my bed one time. I know, when I would go through, I would go through these like ebb and flows of like getting it really ahead. And then you know, being a little behind and like finding the groove. So yeah, we’re back into the getting a little ahead because I’m about well, I’m about to leave for almost a month to go close down my office finally in California, and then have a little fun trip with a friend in Arizona and visit you as well. So by the time this airs, I’ll be back home. But yeah, so I have just I have it’s just I mean, this is like I was thinking of this earlier, like life is it’s just constant change. Like that’s all there is to it. Right? It’s just transition. It’s lots of transition. And, you know, you just got to figure out how to support yourself the best you can in that because sometimes the transition suck. You they are not of your choosing. And sometimes they’re amazing. And they allow these breakthroughs. So yeah, it’s been really great. I don’t know, it’s been a lot.
Abby Herman 13:31
Yeah, yeah. I agree. Well, and and yes, I mean, we’re This is August 31. And the that we’re recording this and the episode comes out October 5, I’m so proud of I’m so proud.
Amber Hawley 13:43
I know. I have my interviews. Well, they had to reschedule till tomorrow, but then I’ll have my interviews done through the end of October. So I still very impressed with myself. So awesome. We’re very, the power of batching. My friends. I mean, this is the thing, this was this was the problem, where like Melissa and I were we batched we planned the whole season and batched it. And then like when it came time to solo, I didn’t keep that same structure, right. Yeah. Because I Well, again, because it wasn’t it wasn’t something I chose, like it was she needed to step back. And so I was kind of regrouping and you know, and then there was this little thing called the pandemic. You know, like, that’s, so it was a lot, but yeah, you’re like, Okay, go back to what, you know, I think like, sometimes we need reminders of that, like what works?
Abby Herman 14:33
Yes. Well, so let’s talk about that. So there’s, you know, you’ve podcasted with a co host, you have podcasts, and you’ve done solo episodes, and you’ve also done interview episodes, both with a co host and on your own. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, maybe the pros and cons of some of that and because I know how much you love doing several episodes so much.
Amber Hawley 14:58
I think everyone knows I mean, how am I many times have I talked about it right? Which is so terrible because, and it sucks because I love podcasting and I love the podcast. So it’s been has nothing to do with the medium or anything. It’s literally just me always, because that was why I was like, Can you interview me? Because, you know, I feel like a get even now like, I’m, I’m still we’re kind of in a, I think we’re both in a chill energy. I’m like, I just kept so not myself I feel to like, you know, like, like Amber on a four. And like, I don’t know, I want to be amber on a seven or something. You know, like I’m a normally a high energy person. So, yeah, so solo episodes are tough. And for me, it’s because I this is probably why I became a therapist and why I love coaching, right? Because I like having conversations with people. I like talking to people, helping them figure things out, helping them think through things. And just like learning from people, that’s the other piece. I love hearing people’s stories. Like I love to know how people, you know, do all the things behind the scenes. I’m one of those, you know, I don’t know if you want to call it a nerd or a loser, but I’m in love with, like, tell me about your morning routine, tell me about not because I feel like I need to emulate it. But because I’m just so intrigued by people’s approaches to things, right? Because I like experimenting and being creative. So I love interviews so much. And learning from people like bringing on experts and learning from them. And, you know, it gets your it’s just gets the ideas going. And I don’t know, I find it very inspiring. So I’m a store. I like stories, you know, that’s something I’m huge into movies, and because of stories, I’m huge into, you know, being with people working with people one on one, and, you know, because I like people’s stories, so so to me, that’s the easiest, because that’s just my default. The perfectionism doesn’t come up there, you know what I mean? Like, because it’s like, it’s a conversation. And I, you know, consistently I think that’s the feedback I get when people like email or reach out about pod, the podcasts are like, it feels like I’m sitting with friends, you know, and I love that I’m like, Yes, I want it to be like you’re sitting with your friends. But learning something, I always want it to be useful. So yeah, so having a co host was perfect, because you never have a solo episode, we always just got to have a conversation. And it was so great, right? Like, we would plan it out. And we would have like, like, Oh, we’re gonna touch on these three bullet points. But that would be it. And then we would just riff off of each other. And it was so wonderful. And you know, hopefully, my goal was always like, I want it to be useful, though. Like I want, I want somebody to have felt like that wasn’t a waste of their time to listen to that episode. So that’s always in the forefront for me. But so yes, so for me, co hosting was great. But you know, if you’re gonna say like, what’s the downside? If you’re building, we weren’t building a business in that it was literally a passion project. But it got us so connected to people and expanded our network, we got to meet people that we really looked looked up to and admire, admired, you know, like, I think it’s probably gotten me speaking engagements and, you know, lots of opportunities, so that’s all great. On the other hand, if you’re building a business, unless you have a business with your co host, then it’s like, hard to show your authority. And I think and, you know, I’m not saying it’s impossible, because I know people do it. But I think that’s why I do still feel the pressure to do solo episodes to is to also just have my voice not always be interviewing, not always be talking to somebody but so that people can hear like my voice because, you know, the goal of interview is to highlight the person you’re interviewing, like to showcase what their knowledge is. So, so I think solos are important. Like, I do believe that. That’s otherwise I wouldn’t put myself through that shit. I mean, like, if I’m at Oprah status, I will stop doing solo episodes. By then maybe they won’t bug me. But, you know, I’m, I feel like I’m getting better at that. But yeah, I think there’s pros and cons to all of them. The same thing, even in interviews. What was nice is like, if my brain like kind of stopped in a moment, like Melissa would pick it up, and she would ask the questions, and so it was a good riff. But then occasionally, it’s like, you both wanted to ask a question at the same time and we had a pretty good flow, and then it’s harder to schedule you know, so like, individually having those conversations is really nice. So but I’ve loved all of it. You know? I’m trying to get better at them. I’m really trying. I think
Abby Herman 19:51
I can definitely there’s definitely a difference in energy between guest episodes. You know, when you’re interviewing somebody and solo episodes, there’s a yeah There’s a definite shift in energy. But I think that that’s true for for anyone with a podcast.
Amber Hawley 20:06
Yeah, although it’s just not I mean, if I’m so again, if I think of the listener as I’m having a conversation with you, like, like, we’re having that conversation and I, but I’m doing it, you know, from my side, I would want more energy and it just feels like I’ve, you know, people who know me really well, they’ll say, Well, yes, it’s you, of course, still, but it is like, the more professional you like, a little a lot, not as you know, not as like free flow. Because obviously, like, I’m, I’m, uh, say it, how I feel it very open book kind of person. And so it does feel a little stuffy. I think that’s it. I know, I gotta figure out like, I need to like Adderall. And like, do some like major dancing like right before. And then friggin record that episode, you know, because I feel like, I’m like, high energy doing it all. And then it’s like, I sit down, and it’s like, and today on the podcast?
Abby Herman 21:05
Yeah. Like you’re recording, like a meditation of some sort. You know?
Amber Hawley 21:12
Like, I go into broadcaster mode. I’m like, Yeah, ah, God, and I’m not that person, you know? So but yeah, I don’t know. Hopefully now, this doesn’t get people just like totally critiquing. I’m working on getting better, right. Like, I think this is the thing. That’s, that is actually one of the biggest lessons for me, in that I really appreciate that I find both life changing and business changing, is starting a podcast has allowed me to grow so much in my confidence. And in in letting go of a lot of perfectionism, even though I’ll still talk about it. Because this is the thing, I don’t think, I think it’s like this, this edge that’s always there. And we grow. And if we have perfectionistic tendencies, we can kind of get them in check. And they can become less and less. But I don’t know if there’s ever going to be a point in which I have none of those tendencies. But I have come so far from where I started. I mean, I was so freaking nervous. And I would obsess like, Oh my God, why did I say that? And like, oh, and like, Oh, but I just said this. And you know, now like, when people are nervous and telling me they’re going on, like their first podcast interview or something, I with full confidence and like, it’s okay, you first of all, you can’t possibly share all of your knowledge and expertise in like a 30 to 45 minute episode, right? You’re it’s not going to be all inclusive. And so I feel like it’s helped me so much. I have grown so much in that confidence. It’s just, you know, again, I’m somebody who’s, I’m just going to share with you my struggle, because I think so many times people don’t talk about the struggle. It’s like, oh, well, you must present the perfect, you know, whatever. And I’m like, Hey, I’m doing pretty good. Like, I built my first business up to half a million dollars a year. And it was something I wasn’t super passionate about. I’ve built up another, you know, two other businesses. And this one, you know, that now supports my family. And so it’s like, I think I’m pretty good at this, but I’m gonna still own that shit is hard and things, you know, I still have my impostor syndrome occasionally, and, you know, whatever. But like, when I’m in my zone, like, I know my shit, right. But I think that that’s the thing. So I, I’m, I’m so grateful it has, it has really helped me grow in that confidence.
Abby Herman 23:32
Well, I think that people really appreciate the fact that, you know, it may not be perfect, or, you know, you know, what you’re putting out there is valuable information. And it doesn’t have to be perfect, because I think people these days shy away from perfectionism. You know, I mean, they look at somebody’s social media or somebody’s podcasts that everything is just shiny and awesome. And I we know the reality, it’s probably a shit show behind the scenes times 10, like, worse than you could possibly imagine. Because we’re trying to put put out this, you know, perfect image. That’s not reality. So, I mean, especially in this whole online business world, you know, I want to work with people who aren’t perfect, who are learning every day and who don’t know everything, because the people who seem to think they know everything make me want to vomit.
Amber Hawley 24:26
Well, and also, sometimes I think that there’s a difference between confidence and arrogance. And when you get to that point where you think I have all the definitive answers, when you’re in that place, I think you end up steering people wrong. I mean, I’ve heard many a story about that, right? And so it’s like, I will say, Here’s, you know, I give feedback to people like I’m thinking about coaching now. Like, and give them feedback based on many years of learning, like doing it actually building these businesses in the things that I’m telling them about. Reading. I mean, I can’t even tell you countless books, taking countless courses really investing in growing. And so like, a comes from a base of a lot of knowledge. But then I’m always the therapist and me is always like, Okay, well, this is, you know, I recommend this, and let’s honor where you’re at what’s going on for you and all that? So yeah, I think it is that, that balance of I think it’s, it’s better. I do know, though, that some people, and there can be many reasons for this, like, um, you know, they still, like want that. It’s attractive to have that perfect, shiny looking person who, you know, like, seems to have it all together. And you’re like, Yeah, I, you know, I think I actually have it together. And I have hard days and hard months. And, you know, I’m a human who struggles but that doesn’t mean I don’t have it together. Right. And so that’s maybe that’s what people need to understand is like, letting that go. Also, though, you don’t want to, you obviously don’t want to hire somebody who seems like they’re a shit show. And I’m not part of and you know, the other trend I don’t love. And there are reasons why people share personal personal things. I’m sometimes I love it, because you like, Oh, my God, I’m going through that too. And it’s that feeling of, I’m not the only one. But sometimes, you know, it’s that false, like vulnerability, just to like, you know, here’s the thing, here’s the thing, I’m going to sell you and it’s like, you know, so I think like, hopefully, I’ve run that balance of the two.
Abby Herman 26:39
Yeah, yeah, I agree. So we’re at 150 episodes. And through that time, and several years to it, you know, in the process. So how has the podcast changed? What you do it changed your business? How has it impacted your business over over these last years?
Amber Hawley 27:04
I think in the journey of doing the podcast and transitioning from a co host to solo, it had me and you know, and especially when I rebranded which basically, I only did like a handful of episodes before I rebranded. It wasn’t very many. And, but what was good about that, in the podcasts like lead this was, it helps me re identify who I love helping now who I’m working with now, and how I want to serve them, because before, we would, I would, we had, you know, the six pillars, which I still think our foundational that we would kind of do episodes from there was like self inner circle. Biz bestie, well, I guess was part of inner circle, family, network and team like, so we had, we would, we would talk about those support networks from that, you know, those angles. And so we’re really thoughtful about content in that regard. And so then you’re always thinking in service of your, you know, your ideal, the client that you’re trying to reach the people you’re trying to reach and how you’re trying to help them. So when I transitioned, it was like, okay, hmm. Now, how am I helping people? Like, obviously, I still recommend support networks. But what kind of content I put out, should be leaning more towards kind of the content I’m putting out influenced me choosing who I was kind of targeting. So it was and they kind of both influenced each other. I don’t know if I’m making sense now. But so for me, it was thinking about, well, what everybody’s easily distracted, like everybody has, frankly, it’s, everyone has this now, right? And then there’s that subset of easily distracted, that are neurodivergent. And they have a legitimate thing that makes it more difficult. And like typical strategies don’t always work for them. So I want to address and help them, but on a general sense, like we’re all distracted. So I think then I’m like, Okay, well, it’s all about sustainability. Like how can we do this and sustainability? How can we use, like personal development, to help our growth as a business owner so that we’re actually enjoying ourselves? Right? So I think the mission of the podcast influenced the mission of the work I was doing. And so then I was like, I’m gonna go back to this idea I had, like, five years ago, I want to do the membership because again, I like having community. I like, you know, talking to people. I like giving them support. And frankly, even though this isn’t podcast related, I wanted something that that was financially, you know, sustainable for people. And I know that, you know, someone could say that’s a money mindset issue, whatever, but I’m like, Yeah, I want something that’s like, really helpful, but at a price that feels like no brainer, right? And so yeah, I think that was the, I think the rebranding and saying like, Okay, well, if again, if I’m thinking about what kind of people or who I’m interviewing what we’re talking about, and my solo episodes, they’re in service of this person, this easily distracted business owner. And so that led to like, well, then how do I help these people? And so then it was like, well, the membership and coaching like that was the two big things. And then, you know, adding the quarterly goal planning planning workshop that just became part I was like, ah, like, people struggle with planning, especially, you know, ADHD people with executive functioning. And I friggin love that shit. My, you know, like, I’m a obsessive, it’s, it’s actually called over focus, but I call it obsessive type of ADHD. And I’m a Virgo. And so I’m like, Yeah, this is great. So I get to teach the things that I love. And so yeah, I don’t know, that’s a really long answer. And maybe it didn’t make sense.
Abby Herman 30:58
Well, and it, you know, no, it totally did. Because you are speaking to the people who you’re speaking on the podcast to the people who you want to serve in the membership and in your coaching, which is exactly the way it should be. And I have to say, as a member of the community, and having gone to several of the goal planning workshops, they are freaking amazing. I have been able to sit there and put together like an entire plan for the quarter. Now the challenge I have is actually doing some planning, implementing, but man, do I have a great plan and then I share it with my assistant. And you know, we kind of go through like I it was a couple of quarters ago, I just came up with a great but the best system for for planning out the quarter. And it’s been amazing. So there’s there’s a plug for the membership that those goal planning worksheets, were workshops are so worth the cost of the membership, which again, is totally accessible. And I’m yeah, I’m on board with accessibility for financial accessibility for you know, stuff like that, because we all need it. We all need a community. It’s so helpful. Absolutely.
Amber Hawley 32:11
Yes. And that’s the thing where, you know, I will first of all, I appreciate that, because, and that’s what I’m always thinking about is like, okay, so this is what people are struggling with, how can I better serve them. So then we started doing weekly co working, we used to do like two sessions a month. And then the weekly co working has transformed it for people to write. So like all of this has kind of come from me always wanting to iterate. But yeah, I have such a heart for people who are like, I’m either working a full time job, or they have a different business, and they’re wanting to transition into something that feels like more easeful, or, you know, just like as we get older, like as we grow, what we’re doing and what we love to do, and who we love to serve shifts, like I don’t know, anybody that still serves the same person, when they started their business that they do now. Like when I started my therapy practice, I was doing perinatal care, and groups because I love because I’ve always loved groups, right? Because the energy, right, and I also did couples counseling. So that was, I mean, that’s that common thread has always been there. But then it transitioned more towards like the neuro divergence stuff, right? Like everything transitions, right, and everything changes. So but yeah, I just, I’m so impressed by people who, like in them, you know, people I’m working with, or, you know, they could be friends, but I’m thinking specifically about people who have joined my programs are done coaching with are in the membership, that I just find the things that they do, and they like, take the learning, and they implement it. And it’s so life changing. And I want it to be something where it’s like, in order to get that support and community, you don’t have to, like spend an arm and a leg so that your, you know, that becomes a stressor. Because right now, so many people are stressed out. I mean, you know, with all the I don’t wanna go negative, but it’s like, you know, inflation, all this other shit. People are struggling, people are getting divorced. I mean, that makes people financially in a really tough spot. So it’s like, I want that support for people because I love supporting people. And so, yeah, I know, I, I it’s been the best thing. That’s been my favorite thing. And honestly, I don’t think had I not gone solo and the podcast, I would have just continued to hold on to that membership. I think I think I was like, that was the I had written it five years before I launched it. And now we’re coming up on is it two years or a year? No, two years. We’re coming up on two years. And I’m like, yeah, it’s all because of the podcast. There’s just that learning to put myself out there and then like, hearing from people and being like, okay, how can I do this differently? How can we how can we help each other?
Abby Herman 34:54
Yeah, yeah, I love that. So I want to ask you about some of the guests that you’ve had Add on the podcast because you’ve had a couple of really big a few really big names on the podcast and just lay
Amber Hawley 35:09
that like, I had the lovely Abby Herman
Abby Herman 35:12
Wait a second time on this podcast? No, I know. No, but you’ve had some like, like big names. And like Pat Flynn, Denise Duffield Thomas. I mean, I know that there’s others those are two just off the top of my head.
Amber Hawley 35:27
Natalie MacNeil. Natalie axes all the Natalie’s as we call them.
Abby Herman 35:30
There you go Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people who have been in the podcasting space for a long time who have been in the online business world for a long time who are authors, you know, best selling authors and all of that. So
Amber Hawley 35:42
Oh, Patrice Washington. Fisher, like I know, I feel bad I shouldn’t list because then I’ll forget all these amazing people like, Oh,
Abby Herman 35:52
how did this happen? So as a podcaster myself, I’m like, I don’t I Natalie act always been on my podcast. I was in her program, though. So I feel like that was kind of a natural fit for me. But where did this come from? How? How did you reach out to them? Can you share some of your secrets? And by the way, and I want you to share not just for other people who are listening who are podcasters. But anybody in business? Because I would imagine there’s other reasons to connect with some of the bigger names in business also. So can you share, like how this happened?
Amber Hawley 36:27
Yeah, well, so on. On a basic level, I love fangirling. So hard, and I love meeting people. And I think that pupil Now granted, not everybody who meets me likes me, that’s fine. I’m not everybody’s cup of tea, right? But especially in person, because you’re definitely getting Ambrette like an eight or a nine like it’s, it’s fucking all in. So. But usually, the feedback I get is that people love the energy and they’re excited, and they feel connected. And they can feel that I genuinely, like, care about meeting people and want to spend time with them. Right. So I think like, that’s a natural skill set, but you don’t have to be that way to do those things. But that was kind of it. So then we kind of made it like, well, because you know, a sense of humor, right? Like, we would say we were doing a gentle stocking of people. And so we would be like, I really want to meet so and so and so, like, we would do a gentle stocking. And so that was actually how we connected with Natalie XL to Oh, yeah. And Katie Chromat. So it’s like those. Those were people were like, okay, yes. And then, of course, Pat Flynn. And that was all at that first podcast movement that we went to before we had a podcast. And I swear, we we did so many events that year, like we call it our conference tour, that I think we saw Pat Flynn, like five times, like five different events in like a six month period. And
Abby Herman 37:55
I really like reading order at some.
Amber Hawley 37:58
And I have said, I think I overwhelm him because he’s, you know, he’s an introvert, and he’s, but he’s so nice. He’s so genuine, but I can tell I know, my energy probably overwhelmed him. But, but I remember the last time or it wasn’t even the last time but we were in Dallas, and he walks into the restaurant, it was before a conference. And he walks in, and he recognizes Melissa and I was like, Hey, we were here first. So like, literally, we’re not talking. We were here. But so some of it is like a we’re going to events, like I’m a huge fan of going to live events, I think joining people’s programs to like, if you’re really wanting to get to know somebody, and like, you know, build relationships, you know, join their programs, right? But going to events, going to their talks, like if they gave a talk and then talking to them afterwards. And then we always, like we would try to be a value or like if they asked something like give, you know, not critical but giving feedback, like because we genuinely like to think about these things, right? Like, how can we it’s all about how can we do it different? What could be more helpful? How can we serve people better? So you know, there was some strategic thoughtfulness about make sure you had something smart to say occasionally or and then you know, I would blurt out something but you know, generally it’s kind of funny, so that helps. But we would do like a gentle stalking and so and then sometimes it was like Patrice Washington who’s just friggin amazing. She used to have a regular thing on Steve Harvey Show. I met her at a different events, Natalie McNeil’s event actually, and we just started dancing in the like, in the back. And so it’s like being myself and attracting people like me. And I was like, I love this person. And so, you know, again, meeting her and staying connected and continuing to have conversations just here and there, you know, checking in, you know, that so with Pat Flynn, so a few of them, so I’ll tell so, so I think live events, staying connected building genuine relationships. And I’ve always said sometimes I cut myself off at the foot, because I’m like, Oh, that guy’s a douche canoe. I’m not going to network with him. I don’t care how important he’s supposed to be and how rich and famous I need to do so know things like because I could definitely have gotten some other teams but I’m like now
Abby Herman 40:18
I’m on alignment with yours and with your audience, then there’s no point in having them on anyway. So yeah, I know I support I support ditching the douche canoes
Amber Hawley 40:29
and the twat waffles. But I’m telling you, I was just watching a thing from Pinkie Patel today. And she talks about douche canoe is actually all encompassing. It is not for men only. So if you look up Urban Dictionary, she just said this today. I love it. I love her so much. Gosh, she brings me so much joy. I actually was like, I want to get her on my podcast, because I just friggin love her. And, but that was the thing of, I see so many people and I know people who were like, I’m going to use, I’m still going to have this person on or do this because they have a huge list and it could help me grow. And that’s fine. Like if you make that choice, fine. And that’s where maybe I’m like slower growth because I’m like, nothing. Don’t want to deal with that shit. This is like, if I’m going to do this stuff, I’m going to fucking have fun. So I’m going to only going to connect with people that genuinely connect with. So there are times where I mean, people would think I’m an introvert at events because I will like go and I’ll meet people. And I’ll like glom on to them and be like, Nope, you’re my people for this whole conference. Now you’re my safety zone. Right?
Abby Herman 41:37
But so yeah, I did not think you were an introvert when we met in real life a little bit, because I was like,
Amber Hawley 41:47
Oh my God, that I talked about my vagina. thing.
Abby Herman 41:52
Oh, nothing. So I am so introverted. And you just talking about dancing? Was I was like, Oh my God, no, there was no way I would do well, I mean, you saw me, I refused to dance. There was no chance I
Amber Hawley 42:04
was gonna do that to me. But I honor people who don’t like to dance it, I literally will dance in the grocery store. Again, I just want to do more of what I enjoy. That’s my goal. Right? So with that, with that energy, and like, again, building relationships, and being clever. The thing that we did that really helped us to was we recorded little videos, that, you know, it might have been a little bit of fan girling Of course, in because it was genuine like we, you know, we had back in the day, our website have a fan girl page, like we fan girl so hard, like, we love it, you know, and we would highlight the people we just thought were amazing. And so, so we recorded videos, and sent them to people, along with a very short like email. But like people would watch the videos. And it was funny, and it was like it was shortened to the point but it was also like, you know, talk about something and, you know, there were a couple people, I think only a couple that didn’t say yes, but most people because we were very strategic about who we’re reaching out to. Like, that’s how we got Pat Flynn, like so it just felt, you know, and also we had been stalking me he’s probably afraid to not let come on or maybe like, What the hell are these women keeps showing up? You know? But yeah, so like with Denise Duffield Thomas, we shared the story, Melissa and I met because we joined an online book club about her book get rich Lucky Bitch. So love it. It’s how we met. So we shared like our origin story and, and you know, like how much we love her work and how it would be so helpful. And, you know, that kind of stuff. So so that’s the, the it was trying to use like our best like humor connection. And, and after building up some time with people. There are a couple of people where I were weak, like cold did it, trying to think but yeah, a lot of the people like even Ramon Ray, like, you know, again, it was seeing him at events and staying connected and, and actually, him with him, we first just sent him a video talking about how much we loved his last talk. And that we just love you know, like he’s an amazing speaker. And so again, we stick and he sent us a video back. So it was like it was like staying connected with people but giving the visual as well because right it’s nice. It’s nice to have visuals, especially after events you’re like, I don’t know, you know? Yes,
Abby Herman 44:31
and being able to see their face and is there such a better connection doing that than just sending an email especially since you probably are not going to remember their name but you’ll remember their face.
Amber Hawley 44:43
Exactly, exactly. And frankly I guess maybe my short answer is we were people I work we wear people down we made it so that it would be so fucking awkward for them to say no. I love ya Uh, I’m trying to think I think we only got, like one official No, we got a couple of ghosts, you know, but then you know, you Who knows if it went to spam or whatever, but yeah, yeah, that’s gonna happen. But I think only one official No. And that’s because they were in the middle of a book launch. And so it’s on my list to reach back out. But yeah, so I think it’s that I mean, I mean, I know that’s boring answer like, it is building relationships it is getting in front of people it is staying connected. And it was genuine, like there’s genuine affinity to the people we’re reaching out to. And we know that that like the audience that we serve is going to be helpful, like it wouldn’t be out of alignment for them. Right? Yeah. Because then it would be out of alignment for our audience. If we’re having somebody who doesn’t make sense. Like then we’re not being thoughtful and caring about our audience.
Abby Herman 45:51
Yes, absolutely. And I think that goes along with what you were saying before about not, you know, not reaching out to people who have big lists, just because, you know, they have big lists and big followings. You know, it’s about it’s about what you can deliver to your audience not Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What’s the biggest name they could possibly have on the podcast? So
Amber Hawley 46:11
yeah, because I could definitely, yeah, we could have more. But I’m like, yeah, yeah. All right. Good.
Abby Herman 46:19
So we, we said we were going to keep this short. But I do have one more question. I know. It’s not been short. But that’s okay. We’re fun. So I have one more question. So if you had to go back and do something different in your podcast, or in your business, if you were to start over today, what would you do differently? And actually, maybe I’m gonna put you on the spot and ask for one of each. So something that you would do different in your business, and something you would do different with your podcasts if you had to start over today.
Amber Hawley 46:53
Okay, so the podcasts if I was going to do something different? Well, I know this, as somebody who loves systems and organization, and like automations, and flow, like I it’s the only way for me to keep functioning. We did not other than recording our, our episodes, and then we always paid an editor, right? Other than recorded like batching out our episodes, when Willis and I started, we, we didn’t do shit all else, we made the mistake that everybody makes of, like we you know, even my, my project manager operations person tells me all the time, just like you love creating things, and you hate promoting, and so we would like never or inconsistently promote our podcast. And it was like, Ah, damn, you know, it’s we, I think we, we cut ourselves off at the foot. We weren’t collecting names to build the email list, even though I would tell you 100% I believed that that should happen. But it was you know, we had like technical snack foods. And then you know, we started but we just didn’t promote and it was like, Why do all of the work and then not have a system for promoting and the only thing we did do, which did help was every Tuesday when the episodes released, we would do a live and it was just a very casual Live, which again, really helps with perfectionism. Because I’ll tell you, there were days where I was like smeared makeup and sitting outside on care, like, you know, it feels it’s supposed to be not perfect, it’s alive. Right? And we would talk about the episode just a little bit and kind of, you know, check in it definitely upped our listenership. And, you know, then that helped us. So I think, I think it would be like slowing down and just making that plan or figuring out that part. And we would just kind of half heartedly half acidly do it and it would be inconsistent. I mean, because we created the images, we created all this stuff. We just just didn’t take that next step of like, posting consistently. So I guess we were consistently putting the episodes out. So if people subscribed, they listened. Right? But we weren’t promoting it and building it in that way. And we jokingly I still say this, like, I feel like we got listeners, like one person at a time. And we would meet people and they were like, oh my god, I love you. What’s your podcast? And then we would, you know, send it. So, yeah, I think I would have taken more time. And it wasn’t until, you know, it wasn’t until hiring you that all of that consistency came because I then it was like, Oh, we were putting it out there a little bit. But then it was but then it wasn’t even emailing our list about it. You know, like, come on, you know, so that’s the, you know, things so then when we finally so built up, I built up a list and then it’s like, I’m not even emailing them. So then once i i was like I need I need support in this because this is my struggle. The promotion part is not fun. I like to create. Yeah, so yeah, that makes I would have hired you sooner. That’s basically what I would have done. That’s what I would have.
Abby Herman 49:57
Yeah, and then in business Yeah. Hmm. Business.
Amber Hawley 50:03
I mean, I guess two of the things would be, again, there’s this thought of like slowing down and getting more foundation, because I’m like a quickstart. So I would just create and like, grow and then like, figure it out as I went and build as I go, which there is value in that, right? But then what happened is, then it’s like you’re so in, it’s, I think I would have hired somebody to manage the people on my team, I should have done it sooner. So I did it right near the end, what ended up being the end, I hire I like, promoted somebody. And I was like, This is gonna be life changing and amazing, because they wanted to manage people, and they love that shit. And they’re like, the best people, and they were like glue. But then they, you know, transitions on, and we’re moving and all that. And this is, you know, last year, so this was a group practice that you’re talking to group practice, sorry, yeah, that’s what I’m thinking of. And I think I would have hired somebody to manage the people because I was still wearing too many hats. And that’s, and then it caught and then it was so draining because, and these were people I loved and enjoyed working with, you know, not all of them, but most of them. And, but it was so draining because it was constant like demanded of my energy like demands demands, man. So like, I have three young kids demands, demands mana, you know, my husband is not very demanding. So that’s great. We support each other in that, then it was like clients, and you know, and then employees, and it was just like too much. And so I think, I think I would have hired like a managerial structure sooner. I do feel I learned the lesson about hiring people to do like the assistant stuff and to do the administrative stuff. So when I started this business before I made a penny, I hired the people. So I did I did take that lesson. But yeah, I think like understanding, I like leading, but I don’t like managing, you know? And yes, you still have to do it. But
Abby Herman 52:09
yeah, and that really aligns so well with, with who I know you are, and the types of people who you want to serve who probably are very much in this similar position where it’s like, the little details that get in the way of the bigger picture. And so the bigger picture doesn’t always happen, because because we’re not following up on the little details.
Amber Hawley 52:29
Which talk a little deeper. Yeah, absolutely. Like having somebody like an operations person. So even if they’re, you know, like a, like a hardcore operations person to me would be like, I wish I had done that a lot sooner, I just should have, because it would have freed up the space for me to grow and to not be stressed out. And then I ended up in burnout so many times, you know, so yeah, you know, I think that those are my lessons. Yeah.
Abby Herman 52:56
I love it. Well, thank you for letting me do this and interview you. i This was really fun. Oh, yeah. gratulations on 150 episodes, and you’re saying I look forward to the next 150?
Amber Hawley 53:08
I know, I know. No, I mean, thank you, obviously, thank you for doing this and taking time out of your schedule. I know you said it’s self serving, because then you know, I’ve actually completed an episode, but but at the same time, like, it’s, you know, I, I tend to not, I always think oh, I think old me honestly would have been like, I should have been way past 150 by now. Like, because of the seasons. And then there was that hiatus during 2020. Then I think like, that’s always my problem. I was like, Well, my number should be higher, or my revenue should be higher. And I never felt excited. And I always thought, oh, once you know, once you get to 30,000 a month. Nope, that didn’t do it. Like nope, nope, nope. I should be further along. I know more than this, you know. And so I think like, this is, I know, it’s silly, because it’s like, 150, whatever. But to me, it’s like, oh, yeah, no, we have to celebrate these things. Because otherwise that’s part of that burnout and exhaustion. Right. And so, yeah, yeah, I am excited for the next 150 I hope it just gets better and better. Like I want to get, I want to get that. You know, that shit tight. And like amazing. And, you know, I want every episode to change people’s lives. Yeah, I love it. Awesome.
Amber Hawley 54:27
And I guess on a last note, I know this was a long one. But it’s that thing where it sounds so corny that I don’t even want to say it. But it’s so true where I’m like, I think if the podcast never grew or it didn’t support my business, or I didn’t get to meet new people, and or I get feedback, even just somebody saying like how that episode helps them or was really validating, like if I didn’t hear from people who are listening. I don’t know that I would be as invested in it. So like part of why I continue is because of the people who are listening. And you know, not not just the people who pay me to do things. It’s also just the people who tell me like it helped them because that’s ultimately, you know, that’s my life’s work as a therapist, like, I want to know that I made somebody’s life a little bit better. And so, yeah, so thank you. So thank you for listening to all 150. And if you haven’t, you should be putting that on your to do list every fucking Monday so so after listening to that episode, if you’re thinking, hey, yes, I want a community where we talk about sustainability, and keeping it real and personal growth and all the things and keeping focus and getting accountability and support. I want to be in that community, then I encourage you to go over to Amberhawley.com/innercircle. To find out more about our monthly membership. We would love to have you it is a great group of people. Most are neurodiverse not all of them are but it’s just a really supportive environment. And we would love to have you so head on over again to Amberhawley.com/innercircle
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
The Inner Circle
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