Learn Team Leadership Strategies That You Need to Know, with Shelli Warren

00:00:22 - Maelisa Hall
Welcome to season two of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:28 - Amber Hawley
And I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:30 - Maelisa Hall
And today we are talking about your team and how the people who work for you can actually be part of your business support system. So we have a team and leadership expert with us on the podcast today, Shelly Warren.

00:00:43 - Amber Hawley
I know, we're very excited.

00:00:46 - Shellie Warren
Hello, ladies.

00:00:49 - Maelisa Hall
Welcome. Shelly, why don't you tell us a little bit about your experience, which I personally feel is super exciting. super impressive and why we wanted to reach out to you specifically to talk about teams.

00:01:02 - Amber Hawley
Well, I think you reached out to me because we are together in a community, an online community, that we share a lot of our trials and tribulations of being entrepreneurs. And the more we got to know each other, I think the more you got to really know about my background and my history.
So I've always been a team person. So it started out with team sports, and then it moved up into selecting and hiring people to be around me in the retail sector. And then that moved over into manufacturing, where I was a leader with Procter & Gamble for almost 26 years, where I led a variety of teams but mainly highly technical teams, including virtual technical teams.

00:01:51 - Maelisa Hall
And technical, you mean like people who were doing techie stuff like on the computer, things like that?

00:01:56 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And people who were actually techie with their hands, like mechanics, electricians, controls.

00:02:04 - Maelisa Hall
And so you have experience both leading people who are with you in an office setting, but also people who are like hours and hours away, right?

00:02:12 - Amber Hawley
Yes, I did a lot of project management over the years and a lot working in the engineering department, working with a wide variety of technically skilled team members, helping with multi-million dollar projects. And a lot of those project teams were based virtually.
So we had vendors, suppliers, and other technical experts that were in exotic locations who helped us you know, get prepared and be ready to do these big projects that we did. But the fun part about leading a team is that you quickly realize that everyone can and should be playing to their strengths.
And that the more we try and have everyone be the same, the more difficult it actually becomes to reach your goals and hit your results.

00:03:04 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And then you feel like you're like hitting up against these barriers all the time.

00:03:08 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And in reality, people, you know, we get paid for what we do with what we know, right? Like a lot of people think, oh, I know this and I know this and I know this. And so that's really why I get paid the big bucks is based on what I know. But in reality, you're not getting paid for what you know, you're getting paid for what you do with what you know.
And that's when people really shine is when They are in a career where they can play to their strengths every single day, and then they therefore feel like they're getting paid for their brilliance.

00:03:45 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, I like that, getting paid for your brilliance.

00:03:48 - Shellie Warren
And I know for me, what was so appealing as a small business owner is it can be such a struggle when you have a small team and it's like that startup mentality where it's like everybody has to do everything. And on one hand, it makes sense because you can only hire so many people, especially if they're employees, and you're really trying to make the team get all of the things done that need to be getting done.
But there's so much truth in, yeah, there might be some grunt work, but really the majority of somebody's day should be spent on doing things that are their strength. And so when you talked about that, I remember thinking like, oh, this is so valuable.
It's such a good reminder that even as a small company, It's just as important, if not more important than a large corporation.

00:04:36 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, when we start out as entrepreneurs, because it's essentially our baby, we really are doing everything ourselves. So I like to call that core work, right? So you're learning what it takes to do the core aspects of your business. So whether it's an online business or whether you actually have a brick and mortar or whether you have a small production line, It doesn't really matter.
You're learning the core tasks associated with your business. And there's value there because once you know the core work, then you can start hiring people based on what you learn doing the core work. But I think as entrepreneurs, where we fail is we think we know how to do that core work the best.
In reality, when we bring people in that don't That is their core strength.

And they're coming in to show us how it can be more effective, how it can be more efficient, how to set up flow, how to schedule, how to actually... What is the work process so that it makes the most sense in order to do these tasks? That's when they really...
They can come in and they can hit the ground running and immediately add value. And as the owner of the business, that's when you can step back and You know, you're often amazed at these people that can come in and in quick fashion really make big changes in your business.
And it's really because the people who are closest to the work should be the people making decisions about the work and influencing how the work is done. Because the more your business grows, the more you're actually moving over into CEO type tasks.

And you're moving over, you're shifted over, your focus is different. So those team members are the ones that are going to be able to come in and recognize how things have changed since the day, you know, back in the day when you were doing that core work.
Technologies has changed. You know, just so much your products and services and raw materials and whatnot will have all changed since then. And so those team members can really come in and school you on how things really should be done to your advantage and to the business's advantage.

00:06:51 - Shellie Warren
Yeah, and I think when that happens, you know you've hired the right people. Exactly. Instead of seeing it as a threat or feeling like you've lost control, I think when that happens and you release that idea of you have to be able to do everything, it can just be so game-changing.
And I feel like, you know, I see this with both men and women, but I feel for women, I especially see this, and in myself as well, where it's like, I know a really efficient way. I know the best way. I know my business inside and out, but I don't have the bandwidth to give it the attention.
Like I know what should be done, but I don't have the time for that. That's the reason I'm hiring somebody. But when I'm able, like every once in a while, I'll hire someone and I'm like, okay, just F it. I'm just going to like, just take it. Just take it because I can't deal with it anymore.
And then they take over and it's like amazing.

I'm like, oh, why didn't I do this so long ago? So I think that's a huge learning lesson.

00:07:47 - Amber Hawley
It is. And a lot of times as business owners, our biggest fear is not hiring. Our biggest fear is giving up control.

00:07:55 - Shellie Warren
That seems like a tweetable to me.

00:07:58 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Tweet it out. Tweet that. And so when we face that head on and we realize that what we're truly afraid of is giving up control, that's when we can remind ourselves that it's actually... brilliant that you're giving up your control. Because what you're going to do is you're going to set some standards and you're going to have some expectations.
And when you hire well, those people will come in, they'll pick up those expectations, they'll pick up those standards, and they'll go off and they'll be amazing at what they're doing. And that's when you'll have that moment, like Amber said earlier, where she stops and she thinks, wow, I should have did this sooner, way sooner, because it's giving me so much flow freedom.
to be able to go and do the things that I know I'm really good at and where I really want to be.

And it allows me to be over there with no guilt.

00:08:53 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. It makes me think of the, I love this quote from General Patton, who actually has a lot of good leadership quotes, but it's don't tell people how to do something, tell them what you want done and let them surprise you with their ingenuity. And I always think like when I heard that, I was like, oh yeah, that's great.
Cause I know even when I was working as an employee, When I was in jobs where I was really playing to my strengths, one of the things I have is a lot of ideas, right? And I could have all these ideas for how to make something more interesting or how to create something.
And when I had the flexibility to do that, I loved what I was doing and I was able to really up-level the whole team, right? Because it was something I could share with the whole team. And when I had managers who were trying to tell me exactly how to do everything, it made me hate whatever I was doing.

And I just wasn't as invested in it. I wasn't as good at it and it wasn't as valuable for anyone.

00:09:52 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And that level of energy and engagement is very, very catching. When you're working with a team that there's one or two people that seemingly are happy, content, full of ideas, full of energy, no problem is too big. That can be very... it can really take that entire team up to the next level because as humans, we will just naturally rise to the challenge of others around us.
Before we started recording, Amber mentioned the famous Jim Rohn quote, you are the five people, average of the five people that you spend the most time with. That is true on any kind of a work team. Any kind of work team, any kind of mastermind that you're in, anytime you have a group of people for a moment in time, everyone will try and rise to the level of whoever they see as one to admire or one to follow.

It's just a natural progression that we do as humans. And as a leader, it's super fun to watch that happen.

00:10:55 - Shellie Warren
That's great. I feel like there's also this push-pull in business of, I see that some of my struggles when I've felt like my team wasn't really cohesive, one, it might be not giving them enough of that freedom to kind of do their own thing. But the other side of it is maybe not giving them enough of a training foundation in the beginning or ongoing.
So I don't know if you can speak to like the balance of that or kind of how you would approach that. Because I know, I mean, your specialty so much so was the training and creating these awesome teams that it became your job at Procter & Gamble, right?

00:11:28 - Amber Hawley
Well, I definitely became known for stacking a team and being able to attract top talent towards me. So when you can be seen as almost like a beacon, you know, where people just want to come and work with you. It's really because they see you as the opportunity for them to grow and scale themselves, right?
So there's an opportunity that by being in collaboration with you, they know that they're going to grow themselves and that they're going to be able to get opportunities that other people might not have. So training is definitely, you know, you want to be known as that leader who knows everything that they don't know it all, right?
The minute you start thinking that you know it all is the first dent in your armor.

People just don't want to work with you. People want to work with people who are willing to raise their hand and say, you know what, that is an amazing question. I have no idea what the answer is. But let's think about this. Because as long as you can, you know, as long as you know where your resources are, and then you have great relationships with them, or you have a basic understanding of that tool, you can pretty much solve anything.
It's really about knowing that you don't have to be able to be the one that has all the answers, that you've got these people around you that are amazing and that you can defer to. And that's what people appreciate. They appreciate being in a room, there's a problem to be solved, and having the leaner turn to that person and say, Henry, what are your thoughts on this?
There's two things that people love the most in the world. One is to hear their own name.

And secondly, is to have somebody ask their point of view. So when you can ask someone, yeah, what's your point of view on this? What's your thought on this? And then hold the space for them to answer. You're winning, winning, winning, winning for building trust on your teams.

00:13:25 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and you're taking advantage. I mean, the whole point of hiring people, whether it's a contractor for a short-term thing or it's a long-term employee, the whole point of having someone on your team in any aspect is to use their expertise. right? To use their skills, like no matter what level of talent or level of skill they have.

00:13:44 - Amber Hawley
And there's so many ways you can do that. You know, one of my favorites used to love to do lunch and learns where I would just approach people on the team and say, you know, this seems to be a really hot topic on the team and people are really interested in it.
Would you mind coming in and just giving us the basics? Like what are the top five things that you need to know about for this? Or what are the biggest lessons that you've learned? owning this particular realm of the business. And it was like a masterclass, right?
It's like a free masterclass right here in your workplace with people around you who you already respect. And then that level of respect actually elevates even more once you see them in the spotlight, sharing their brilliance with others. And once everyone gets a chance to be able to stand up and own their brilliance and really have others recognize what they're level of expertise is, the whole level of the entire team gets raised all at once, like all in one fell swoop.

All of a sudden, the level of contribution is higher, the level of output is higher, the level of collaboration is higher, and the level of just really congruent conversations with each other and team dynamics really starts to elevate.

00:14:59 - Shellie Warren
I think that is so genius. And it's so funny, I've had on my calendar forever, like, We need to be doing once a month trainings like that, like a lunch and learn type of situation. And I thought, okay, I'll do some, I'm going to bring in some experts.
And I never, it just didn't even occur to me to think like the people who, most of the people who work for me are therapists. They are experts. They have their own specialty. So I absolutely love that, that to really have them shine and step into that role of the expertise that they already have.
Totally stealing that.

00:15:33 - Maelisa Hall
What do you think about when, cause I've had this where the last job I had where I was directing quite a few people. So some people were really into that and other people were like, Ooh, no, I don't want to be in the spotlight. Like that wasn't something they were very comfortable with.

00:15:50 - Amber Hawley
Yep. So you can still have, yes, for sure. You can still have those people share their learnings and you can offer it up to them and If you have like a weekly meeting or a monthly meeting or some way that you're all gathering, if you have a here's what I learned this month moment where people can just either get sent out as a blast, an email to everyone on your team.
Here's what I've learned this month. It could be quick tips on how to use this form or I found this awesome portal or I found this amazing book or boy, you know, I was in this portal and I got lost and here's how I get out. Like whatever it was that the learning is, they can still share their learning through an email.
So they're not actually having to stand up and teach per se in front of a group, but they can still have that impact and still share their brilliance in a way that's more comfortable for them, including creating job aids and creating standards of work.

And creating training manuals and, you know, sharing their insight, especially in terms of onboarding new team members, that's when people can really step in and say, boy, you know, when I came on the team, you know, I struggled in this area and here's where my cheat sheets that I used.
And would you like to have those cheat sheets more formalized? Well, of course you would, right? So, and then you have them right there on the top, you know, submitted by, right?

00:17:17 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and I think what I'm hearing too is the key is, again, playing to what the individual strengths are as far as how they share and then continuing to acknowledge them in whatever way they're comfortable. So maybe you send out that email and you say, thanks to so-and-so for creating this cheat sheet for all of us or thanks to so-and-so for sharing this awesome website.
And thinking back, those same people who I'm thinking of that I knew had lots of value and would say, no, no, I don't want to do... the monthly training or whatever, they were the ones who were often sending emails to the team saying, hey, this was a great article.
I found this really helpful, that kind of thing.

00:17:56 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. Other ones too, they like to demonstrate. They're more of like a hands-on person. So what you can do is you can set up little times. So maybe it's like Thursdays from 3.30 to 4, like whatever that last half hour is before you shut your business down for the day.
You have it open, like drop on my desk, And I'll give you a live demonstration of this new tool that I found, right? So their strength is not so much in actually collaborating all the formalized, the job aid itself, but they're great at visually like handholding, like taking somebody through and driving the computer for them and showing them how that works because that can be just as valuable as well.
And if it's an open-ended, hey, just drop by my desk, it doesn't really feel like training, but training is what's really happening.

00:18:44 - Shellie Warren
Right. And I imagine, especially for all those people who, you know, I mean, a lot of people are afraid of public speaking, right? And so it's the number one fear, actually. But that's a way of them still being able to pass on their information without having it be the spotlights on them.
So I think that is a really nice, you know, accommodation, I guess, or way of looking at it in a different way that won't trigger their fear.

00:19:09 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and it's right at their own workspace. So it's not like they're on stage. It's not that they're in the boardroom. They're not running a webinar. It's right in their own space. And people can just drop by in their own space. They'll feel much more comfortable with it.

00:19:25 - Maelisa Hall
Wonderful. We're talking about all these really cool strategies that people can use for highlighting strengths within their team and finding the strengths within their team. And I'm thinking for someone who maybe... is an entrepreneur and never had any experience managing someone before they have to hire someone, or even people who had experience, but maybe you knew that you weren't the greatest manager and you never really got any kind of training in it, which I think is still the majority of people in most settings.
Where do you recommend people start off? They can listen to a podcast like this and get some great tips, but if you're thinking about hiring someone, what do you think someone should be doing start to get those skills. So they're continuing to foster these ideas and have someone to talk through different situations.

00:20:15 - Amber Hawley
I think the first thing is for anyone that's wanting to hire and build out their team is to stop and think about what were the experiences you had when you were hired? What was that like? Like the actual hiring process, what made you feel great? What was cumbersome?
What was confusing to you? And then as you were hired, how was that onboarding? you know, what worked well, where did you feel alone? What was confusing to you? What was the tipping point where you actually felt like you were included on the team? And then, you know, because it really comes back to, if you're a leader that's looking to build out your team, you have to keep reminding yourself about this, what I like to call first moment of truth.
And the first moment of truth, just like anybody, when you were a kid and you saw a toy being advertised at Christmas time on the TV and, You wanted that so bad and you woke up Christmas morning, ripped open your package.

There it was. You pull it out of the packaging and it doesn't work. Like it never worked as good as it did. Never. So there was your first moment of truth. It was a letdown, right? What you bought something and when you bought it and took it home, it did not perform as it was advertised or as the claim was.
So you've lost that first moment of truth. So when we're looking at hiring people, those new hires are searching for their first moment of truth. And so what they're really basing that on is the job description, the leader itself, the opportunity itself.
So the story that you said in the job posting and in the interview, were you embellishing at all? Were you being very real about what the work was going to be, who you were as a leader?

What the training was going to be like, what your workplace is going to be like, who your team members are going to be, you know, rates of pay, all that stuff. You want to be able to offer them a great moment of truth. So therefore you're going to want to make sure that that first, the whole process of hiring them, giving them the job offer and getting them the door.
And then that first day of work and then the first week of work. And then the second week of work is really congruent with offering them a fabulous first moment of truth. I've heard so many horror stories about people who have come into a workplace where they're they were just simply not ready for them.
So there was no desk, no laptop, no email address, no phone numbers, no access to anything, not even someone to take them for coffee for morning break, no lunch date set up, no thought put into how is this person going to feel coming in and joining our team based on what you told them it was going to be like in the interview and in the job posting.

00:23:05 - Shellie Warren
Yes, and I, you know, not only have I experienced those things, both good and bad, I hear that a lot from clients that are coming in because they're dissatisfied with their work, where like those things, it's almost like, okay, fine, you know, IT got the wrong start date or, you know, blah, blah, blah.
But I do feel... The one that I hear about the most that really stays with people is when the work that they were promised they could do is not the work they're doing. And that's where people just can't get past it and they become miserable, right? And so I do think that's really important.

00:23:38 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. So, you know, I think we've all been there, right? Where we've taken on a new role, accepted a role, and then two weeks in, or sometimes it's two months in, and you stop and you think, this is nothing like I thought I was going to be. I'm not being able to do the kind of work that they told me that I was going to be doing.
And a lot of that comes down to, sometimes it's because they hired you when you were really not a right fit. So you came in with the skill set that they thought, well, we can make this work. When in reality, that does you know well, it does this person know well, it's just, it's not a good move to try and force fit.
someone into your organization because you hired too quickly.

So you hired somebody, but the work wasn't there yet. Or maybe you hired somebody for a particular project, but the project wasn't signed off yet. So you're still waiting for this sexy project to be, you know, to come down, but hasn't actually happened yet.
So then you're trying to find like anything for this person to do. Right. Kind of feels like value while you're still waiting. Yeah. Yeah, they totally get that, right? Like people see that. They know what's happening there. And then oftentimes we hire people and we just make a bad hiring decision.
We hire them based on emotion.

00:25:00 - Shellie Warren
Our emotion.

00:25:01 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. On our emotion, we're hiring them because they're feeling panicked because I got a gap here. I got to get somebody in here. I'm swamped. I'm overwhelmed. I got to just get me somebody. Get me a warm body in here. And then the person comes in and they're not a right fit.
And then to Melissa's point, sometimes we hire people because We really liked them, but we're not hiring people because we really liked them.

00:25:26 - Shellie Warren
I don't know who you're talking about, Shelly.

00:25:29 - Maelisa Hall
You know, it makes me think of, I heard that Quentin Tarantino had wanted to work with Brad Pitt for a really long time, but he didn't for years and years and years because he said he never had the right role for him. And so he just didn't. And then when he was doing Inglourious Bastards, he knew that that role that Brad Pitt had was the perfect role for him.
And I think you can see it, right? You can see that it's such a great role and he's hilarious and you don't normally see him like that, but it's perfect. And I think that's the type of mindset you have to have, right? Even if you see this person, you're like, wow, they are awesome.
But they're just at a different level or they're doing something different than what I need right now. You... keep those people in your Rolodex, right? But maybe it's just not the right fit.

00:26:17 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. The whole idea of right fit hire. So we want to make sure that they're fitting the work that you have currently ready and available for them, but you also want to hire for the future because nothing's worse than hiring somebody for a particular role or a particular leadership position.
And then your business really starts to take off. And instead of them running alongside you or even a few steps ahead of you, you're actually dragging them along with you. And boy, nothing can derail a team quicker than to have someone on the team that constantly needs to be cajoled into coming along with where the business is going.

00:26:57 - Shellie Warren
Oh, I so agree on that one. Those are all really great tips. And I feel like we're talking about, I know we had said we were going to kind of address how your team can be your support system. And I think it is because it's saying you need to hire the right people.
You need to give them the right experience and you need to be the right kind of leader. And that's how they become your support system. Because I think in the past, I will just say from my experience, I felt so much frustration with my employees and then realized finally that it was me that wasn't contributing enough to the culture or kind of the experience or the expectations that were going on.
And so I was actually my problem as opposed to, I mean, I could easily tell you a hundred reasons why they were a problem, but, and they were, but that's also because I didn't take that time or I wasn't looking at it as by me nurturing them.

That's how they are. They are able to nurture me.

00:27:58 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And the other thing too is, you know, not everyone is cut out to lead people and that's okay because And just because you're the CEO and president of your business, it doesn't matter what size of the business is, it doesn't mean that you have to be the leader.
But what you do need to do is put people on your team who can lead the rest of the team. It's just like the same saying as, you know, just people who know a lot about a particular topic doesn't make them a great trainer.

00:28:30 - Shellie Warren
Yeah.

00:28:30 - Amber Hawley
It's the same thing with leaders. Just because you know the most about the business and the business has your name on the front door doesn't mean you're the greatest leader in that business. So what you need to do is have people amongst your team who can lead others.
And then you as a leader truly need to be open to feedback. And I know a lot of people say, oh yeah, I'm good with that. Sure, I'm good with feedback. But in reality, they are not. And so I like to... remind people that feedback is a gift. It really is a gift.
And it takes a lot for people to give feedback, a lot, because there can be repercussions when you give your leader feedback. And sometimes that feedback can be presented to you in a beautifully wrapped blue Tiffany box, right?

So they have all the right words. It's in all the right atmosphere. They've really put a lot of thought into their tone and how they're going to deliver this feedback. And then you have gifts that are given to you, you know, in this drippy bag of bleep.
And they have not thought about how they're going to deliver it. They've not given any thought to the presentation itself. It's more of just, they're just blurting out feedback at you. So people on teams, whether you're providing feedback vertically or laterally, there really needs to be some thought put into it.
And if you're going to be giving feedback vertically, which I like to call coaching up, right? So the person is coaching up to their leader, whoever it is that they report to. There's risk involved because depending on what mood the leader's in or depending on how open they are to feedback, there could be some serious repercussions for this.

But you as the leader, when somebody is providing you feedback, your only job ever, ever, ever is to say thank you.

00:30:29 - Maelisa Hall
I think that's a really important term. And that's like, if you can train yourself to remember, oh, okay, you start having that moment, that internal dialogue, and you're like, okay, this is my only response. This is my only response.

00:30:41 - Shellie Warren
Just say thank you.

00:30:41 - Maelisa Hall
Just say thank you.

00:30:42 - Shellie Warren
Just say thank you.

00:30:44 - Amber Hawley
Yeah.

00:30:44 - Shellie Warren
So you say thank you.

00:30:46 - Amber Hawley
No, you say thank you, and then you sit with it for a while. And then you can come back, whether it's a day later, two days later, circle back with that person. And say to them, you know, I've had a couple of days to think about it. And I really appreciate that you were willing to come and speak to me about that.
Because here's what I've learned after you've told me that. I had flashbacks in my mind of how often I've done that this month throughout the length of this project when I was starting to get freaked out because we weren't going to hit our deadline. I started to get flashbacks of how inappropriate I was to the team.
based on my own emotions. You can start to really own the feedback that they gave you and then tell them what you're going to do about it to change it. There's nothing, like nothing will shut down a team member quicker when you ask for feedback is when they give it and you don't listen or they give it and you're too busy trying to give evidence that actually they've misunderstood you.

Yes. Or when you don't take action afterwards, when they take the time to give you the feedback and risk whatever there is to risk giving you the feedback and you do nothing with it. What that does is it just, you're teaching people that you're not really open to feedback as much as you, as you said you were.
And then the best thing you can do is own up to it and come right back to the entire team and point out the fact that you appreciate it, that, Sharon took the time to give you this feedback this week and here's how you appreciate it. And here's your plan to move forward with it in front of the whole team.
So now the whole team is your accountability partner to be able to help you grow. And then just ask them, the next time you see me off in this tangent or the next time you see me running down that path, please, please point it out to me.

And then when they do, do it.

00:32:43 - Maelisa Hall
And that's the only way you're going to grow your business and make things better. right? You can't have a bunch of yes men around you who are really maybe just influenced and like being around you. And you can't have a bunch of people who are scared of you because they have to be able to give you that information.
Like you want people who are having that thought while they're working, oh, I could do this so much easier, right? So much more easily. I could simplify this. You want them to then take that extra step and let you know, right? And say, hey, I thought of a way we could do this.
I think I could save myself like half an hour a day. And that's what you want. And if you're not open to it, then you're just going to have an inefficient and frustrated team.

00:33:26 - Amber Hawley
The more often that you show your team and demonstrate your team that you're willing to listen to, lean into, and then act upon feedback, what you're then creating this platform for them to be ready and willing to listen to your feedback.

00:33:44 - Shellie Warren
Yeah. And there's so much more investment because they feel valued, they feel recognized. And I think that investment in both their role, but also in you as somebody that they want to continue to work for. So I think that's an amazing nugget that you've given people in thinking about how they are as leaders, how they're showing up as business owners or CEOs.

00:34:07 - Amber Hawley
And it's often just little subtle things. I have a sort of like a life rule that I do not want to be referred to as someone's boss. And the minute... someone referred to me as their boss, I immediately corrected them and said, we work together. I always wanted to create this atmosphere that yes, on the hierarchy chart, yes, you are reporting to me.
But in our day-to-day lives and in the work that we're setting out here to do, we work alongside each other. We need to be able to reposition ourselves at any given point where I'm going to be following you today because you're the expert in this and I need you to step up and be the expert in this.
And then later on this afternoon, I'm going to pull out front and I will be the expert in this. But it's offering that game changer where you slide into roles when it's appropriate and in whatever current situation there is so that people really start to step up and lead in their own ways.

And the other thing I'd love to do is switch hit roles.

00:35:09 - Maelisa Hall
What is that?

00:35:10 - Amber Hawley
Well, switch hitting roles is when you have particular roles on your team where you're creating an atmosphere where people are stepping into leadership roles more often than not. So it could start out as simple as your daily huddle or your daily meeting where it might normally be you that's leading that meeting.
I would switch it out of that and I'd say, okay, Sharon's going to lead today. And then your role is to sit and let her lead Like let her answer the questions. Let her defer to the other people in the room. Like let her take control of whatever's happening in the room.
Because what that does is it teaches other people how to play off of other people's styles. It also teaches the other people in the room that they need to sit and listen to another leader, not just you.

And then it also creates an atmosphere where other people can give feedback to that leader. And it's the right thing to do. And we can all rally around her because she's the leader today.

00:36:11 - Shellie Warren
I really like that. And I think it also promotes a lot of flexibility, which in the psychology world, we talk about as having flexibility is health.

00:36:21 - Amber Hawley
That's where you see it.

00:36:22 - Shellie Warren
When you're too rigid and you become stagnant and there's no growth, there's no opportunity there. And so the flexibility is highly important.

00:36:31 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. When you're so rigid in the roles and responsibilities on your team, when there's no cross-training, when there's no opportunity for anyone to step into someone else's role, even if it's only briefly to handle a crisis, what are you going to do when someone goes on maternity leave or if somebody is suddenly hospitalized?
You want to be able to have enough flexibility and enough cross-training happening on your team so that if there is something like that that the team needs to work through, that it's not totally going to shut you down. Yes, it's not ideal because the person that would normally be leading this for your business is not available right now, but you should have enough other skill sets on the team that you can get through the day, get through the week, get through to plan B versus being totally shut down because...

Jenny's in the hospital, she's twisted her ankle and now she needs to have x-rays, you know, like, and those things happen, right? Those kind of life situations happen.

00:37:30 - Shellie Warren
Right. No, I think that's great. Do you have anything else, Melissa, that you wanted to follow up on or?

00:37:36 - Maelisa Hall
I know I was just thinking there's so many like food for thought items here. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the biggest things too, is that you also gave people permission not to be a good leader and So if you know that's not your skill set, if you know you don't enjoy it, obviously, if you're going to own a business, you have to do a little bit of that, like you said.
But the most important thing is you can also hire that part out. And it's funny, Amber and I were just talking to someone who has a really successful business And she was saying that she had someone come in and interview all of her team members and talk with them.
And they completely restructured a bunch of things. And she was really upfront. She was like, yeah, that's not my wheelhouse. I'm not good at that. And she had pretty satisfied employees, but she knew that things could be better.

And she recognized she wasn't the person to make that better. And she had someone else come in and do it.

00:38:29 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. So people want to... Anyone on any team, what they're looking for, they want to be working alongside a leader that's actually worth following. So not in the sense that, you know, I'm going to hang on her every word and I'm going to, you know, do everything actually what she says, but you want to be working alongside someone who knows their role and their responsibility in the business and is comfortable within their own skill set to realize where, you know, what lane they need to be in so that they can play to their strengths and then stack up a team around them where they're offering an opportunity for people to come in and truly play their strengths, get paid for their brilliance, lead other aspects of the business, and therefore they'll have people following them.
And it just creates this whole movement where if you're not a leader in a particular realm of the business, we can find the right person who can lead.

And then that's where work becomes fun because you get to learn about team dynamics, you get to learn You know, all these different communication styles and leadership styles. And it just offers so much more diversity and so much more variety in your work than being in that atmosphere where there's one sole leader.
It's her way or the highway. You know, it's either black or it's white. And where you're really not feeling like you can foster your own creativity, that's when usually people start to become disenchanted. And then they'll start looking for work elsewhere.
And then you're back to hiring again.

00:40:01 - Shellie Warren
You're just back to hiring again. Back to the cycle. I feel like so much of what you said, this is, I think if you own a business and you already have employees or you're contemplating hiring that first employee, this is something like everything that you've talked about, I think is really important to kind of take some time outside of your business and think about this and think about, is the leadership part something you do enjoy?
Is it something you need to just kind of step into and own that role and maybe build up your own skill set? Or is it something that's not in your wheelhouse? And how do you want to create these dynamics within your employee structure? I think this is what you've shared is a lot of great information for people to kind of take home and think about and really plan that out.
Because I think it's that thoughtfulness that's going to make the difference, right?

00:40:50 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And you want... When people stop and think, hey, I'm the owner of this business, and A, I'm really concerned about giving up control and having another person actually lead here in my business. And then sometimes I'll talk to people and I'll say, well, do you like leading?
Do you like leading your team? And they're like, yeah, I like telling what you do every day. I like knowing what you're going to... I'm like, no, no, that's called bossing people around. There's leadership, and then there's people that like to boss people around.
Those are two separate things, right? People who are leaders... have vision, they have insight, they know where they're going. And that's what they know a lot. And they're getting paid to do with what they know a lot by moving the business forward. Having someone that's going to come in and just bark orders at people all day.
Nobody wants to work alongside that kind of a person.

And in those scenarios, they're often leading by position, right? They're not leading by purpose. They're just leading by position by this name tag. that they wear or that's on their desk or it's on their door or it's on their business card. You know, somewhere it's the title or the position that's actually that they're hiding behind as a leader.
But oftentimes they'll look around. It's pretty lonely because people don't want to, they don't want to work alongside those type of people.

00:42:09 - Shellie Warren
Yes. Well, thank you so much, Shelly. And obviously, you have great expertise in this. And if you want to hear more from Shelly, you should check her out at the Stacking Teams podcast that was released a few weeks ago. It's amazing. And she continues to drop all these value bombs in that podcast as well.
How else, if people wanted to follow up or learn more about you or kind of what you're offering, where else are good places to connect with you?

00:42:35 - Amber Hawley
Well, you can definitely tune into the Stacking Your Team podcast, which is part of the BizChicks brand. So there's the BizChicks podcast, and then there's the BizChicks stacking your team podcast. And then you can come to BizChicks.com, B-I-Z-C-H-I-X.
com and just hit the work with me button and learn more about how you can work with me.

00:42:58 - Shellie Warren
Awesome.

00:42:59 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And people can actually do a strategy session with you pretty easily.

00:43:04 - Amber Hawley
Very easily. I love doing strategy sessions. I also love to help people craft how to say something. So if they have to provide feedback or they have to, you know, they have a sticky situation, but they just don't know what to say or how to do it. We can often do some strategy sessions and flesh those out and get you the right wording so that you're reaching your goals with your team or your business or a client.

00:43:28 - Shellie Warren
I will say, you know, as therapists, we help people with this kind of stuff too. But both Melissa and I were just at a conference with you this last weekend, which is why my voice sounds like this. And we actually noted that, that you are so adept at your responses.
You can talk about a very difficult or touchy situation in such a graceful and...

00:43:49 - Maelisa Hall
Poised was the word I was thinking.

00:43:51 - Shellie Warren
Yes, with such poise. And so I could absolutely see you offering people value in that. 100%.

00:43:58 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, that comes from years and years of doing what I like to call situational leadership, where it's anything from having to be the person to tell the guy, you need to go home now and have a shower, to going to a high-level leader to tell her that, you know, that whale tail at the back of your pants is not working for you anymore, to having to take...
Having to take people aside and talk to them about their inappropriate behavior with millennials. It's really like once you get immersed in big groups of people with big personalities and lots going on, inevitably you're going to run into these types of situations where you have to give some sticky feedback and you want to make sure that it's given in a way that's constructive and that the person can act upon it.

But inevitably, You don't want to lose their loyalty to you as their leader, right? And you don't want to cause any more friction or embarrassment or, you know, you just want to button up the situation. It's like crisis management. You want to button up the situation.
It's like being a handler sometimes. Like you're just going to, you see an issue and you just, you're going to come and go swoop and you just like rush in, bring the person over to the side. And oftentimes they're just so grateful that someone's, speaking to them in an adult way with some sensory to what this is going to be like to even hear this feedback.

00:45:31 - Shellie Warren
Yes, thank you. And so head on over to the bizchicks.com site and again, check out the different podcasts and the work with me to get your very own one-on-one with Shelly. And thank you so much, Shelly, for being here with us today. Yeah, thank you.

00:45:50 - Maelisa Hall
Knowledge bombs all over the place.

00:45:51 - Shellie Warren
I know. Seriously, I'm going to have to go back and listen to this one and write some stuff down. I think it was great.

00:45:57 - Amber Hawley
Join me as a raising fan of the My Biz Besties podcast, which is no joke. I am a serious fan of these ladies in this podcast. So come join me every week as I tune in. And how do you do that? You subscribe. And hey, they would love if you would leave them with you.