If you haven’t felt that before, it’s time! It could be your leadership style that’s holding you back or, more likely, that you’re subscribed to patriarchal beliefs about leadership. And it’s no wonder. We’ve been taught from birth that boys and girls, men and women are expected to show up differently.
No more! The truth is that femininity and masculinity is a spectrum and we can show up any way that works for us. Not only that but we can all have the same qualities, no matter our gender. It’s often how we’re conditioned that determines how we show up.
This week on the podcast, Giada Carta of the Soulful Mentor, is sharing why we need to let go of the patriarchal narrative of leadership and start embracing our true characteristics and using them in business.
About Giada Carta:
Giada Carta is a business mentor on a mission to awaken revolutionary leaders all over the world. Her Soulful Mentoring® method uses archetypes to help high achieving women entrepreneurs forge their own rules to change the world through their best and most aligned work. Visit her website and follow her on Instagram.
Links and Resources:
Time Stamps:
[3:22] – About Giada
[3:57] – We tend to handle biz looking outward
[4:25] – The only way to be successful is to start from the inside
[6:11] – How we manage biz and people has a lot to do with how we lead
[8:47] – Myths we have around leadership
[12:02] – We try to develop the characteristics that we think leaders should have
[15:10] – The earlier we buy into this new leadership the better
[17:59] – Qualities that are glorified in our culture
[22:21] – Labels are part of the patriarchy
[25:22] – How we question ourselves needs to be different for everyone
[27:50] – Start working on the things you’re good at vs. what’s hard for you
[31:04] – We’re trained to have external focus; we need to look internally
[35:48] – You’re not compatible with everyone
[37:05] – We waste a lot of time trying to make work relationships work because we
[41:47] – Our comfort in the patriarchal viewpoint
[47:02] – Take your team members’ leadership styles too
Transcription:
Amber Hawley 0:01
Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business in life despite their type aways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a.com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional care plantation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelmed perfectionism and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. Hello, Hello, Happy April, my fine focusing friends. It is cute too, if you can believe it this year is rushing by as it always seems to do in the beginning at least. And if you’re finding yourself kind of thinking, Oh, I set some goals for myself this year. And now it’s already April. And you want to reevaluate or kind of look at what you’re looking to accomplish for the year. Maybe you haven’t even figured that part out yet. While you’re in luck, because this Friday, April 8 is our quarterly goal planning workshop. And I would love to invite you to join us for a awesome workshop where we help you identify what’s the one thing you should be focusing on and actually make a plan to get there. So head on over to Amberhawley.com/onething. And you can check out all the deets there.
Amber Hawley 1:43
I am so excited to have my good friend on Giada Carta. I feel like I have to say it like that. I would have called her Giada not knowing better but Giada Carta. She is a business mentor on a mission to awaken revolutionary leaders all over the world with her soulful mentoring method. Using archetypes to help high achieving women entrepreneurs forge their own rules to change the world through their best and most aligned work. Giada and I had a wonderful conversation and I can’t wait for you to listen. welcomes yada, yada. I’m saying it with my hands like I’m Italian. Welcome my lovely friend Giada To the show.
Giada Carta 2:35
Thank you for having me.
Amber Hawley 2:38
I’m so excited about this, I had to practice a lot. Because I said How am I going to see a normal I feel you have to say it like it’s a annunciation, you know, like it’s important.
Giada Carta 2:49
For Italian living in Spain, I am very much used to have my name said in very weird ways. So it really doesn’t matter.
Amber Hawley 3:00
But I care, I care. But I love it. Well, thank you for coming on the show. I’m very excited for you to be on here. today. We’re going to be talking all about leadership and, and busting some myths about leadership, which I’m really excited about. But before we get into that, why don’t you tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself,
Giada Carta 3:22
of course, is thank you again for having me here, especially having me here talking about one of my favorite topics ever, which is great. So I am a soulful mentor. And this is the definition that I chose for myself because I am officially a business manager Yes. But the the angle that I decided to give my work is very specifically connected to soul, which means that our work should actually have a lot to do with our souls, which is very much connected to my concept of leadership as well. And what I mean when I say that our work should be connected to our soul is that we very often tend to handle our businesses looking outwards, right? So we listen to other people, mentors, or you know, famous business owners in our niche. And we believe that we should follow those rules to be successful in our businesses. Well, I really don’t believe this, I believe that the only real way to succeed in business is to start from inside, from what we truly are. And so this is really what I do. I teach my clients to develop their businesses and to crush it with their businesses, starting from their very own soul and their very own peculiarities, you know, all those things that we usually tend to say, Hmm, this could be uncomfortable. This could be not my very strong point. Right and maybe I should hide it. Well, I think that’s bullshit. We really have to show up in the world as a the full spectrum of what we are, and that this is the key to succeeding our business. And so this is what my mission is. And it’s the leadership style that I attempt to teach to my clients, whenever they work on their businesses with me. I have a program that’s all sorts of business, which is where I help business owners to develop their own unique leadership style to crush it with their businesses. And this is about it, this is what I do.
Amber Hawley 5:30
I love it. I love it. I was just thinking we met we were in an incubator, a business incubator together. And before we got to, like meet each other, know each other’s businesses, I’m thinking about like, the rants that I had about the struggles I was having last year in my business, and kind of talking, I think I was talking about like leadership stuff. I now realize I was talking about management stuff, which was a little bit different. But I’m like, oh, what you must have thought I was I went on my rants.
Giada Carta 6:01
No, he said that it was actually management stuff and not leadership stuff. But I think those two things are really, really connected. Because when we have to manage things, or people, you know, whether we’re managing our business in the practicalities that it has, or whether we’re managing people in our team, this has a lot to do with the way we want to lead. And the way we are used to lead sometimes, you know, especially when it’s about team, we sort of go on autopilot, because those are human relationships, right. And so if we haven’t worked a lot on our leadership, and we if we haven’t asked ourselves the right questions about the kind of leaders that we want to be, we just run things by default, right? So when I’m managing people, I just maybe sometimes act randomly and manage that relationship poorly, because I didn’t ask myself those right questions before, right. And it’s sort of the same when I’m managing practical things in my business. Because the way I manage practical things is also always influenced by what I’m feeling, what I’m experiencing, what my fears are, what my random reactions are, right. And so if I haven’t worked on that, before, on that part of the work that is more connected to who I am, rather than what I’m doing, that’s where it becomes tricky, right? Especially if I have a business, that scaling that’s growing really fast, and I can sort of get lost in that change. And if I am not very grounded in myself, and I haven’t done that work on my being rather than doing, that’s where I get lost, because you know, I don’t have that time to pause, and do that work at that moment to actually make sure that I am managing and leading the way I want to.
Amber Hawley 7:54
So you don’t subscribe to the idea that I could just hire out management and just lead. That was last year. Yeah, it was a struggle last year was a struggle, I think for a lot of people, right, that second year of, you know, COVID, and just all the shifts and changes and things happening. But But yeah, I guess, you know, that was kind of epiphany for me that that’s the leadership part, the inspiration, the inspiring having a vision, having a direction, that part comes easy. And the part where well, and this makes sense being ADHD, like following up with people to make sure they did the shit they said they do that is like the most painful shit on Earth for me. So that was the struggle. But what or I’m curious, though, like, you had talked about, there are some myths that I think we have around leadership. And yeah, maybe let’s jump in and tell me some myths. And let’s break them down.
Giada Carta 8:56
Yes, so let’s talk about two mainly, if you agree, so the first myth that I think goes a lot around when it comes to leadership is that leadership is a thing with a precise set of characteristics, which are usually bestowed on us by the gods and third, and if we don’t have them, we don’t have that, you know, we are so lucky. So if I weren’t born with if I wasn’t born part of the my English, I wasn’t born with all these nice characteristics, which are usually a bunch of patriarchal shit, you know, like, assertiveness and the ability to be aggressive when it’s needed, the ability to fight for yourself and stand up, you know, very extroverted character and all that stuff, then I really cannot be a leader you know, because leadership is all about moving other people and pointing their energy wherever I want them to go. And you know, if I don’t have this set of characteristics, I will never be able to do that. But once again, this is bullshit. This is one of my favorite sentences.
Amber Hawley 10:06
Frankly, I kind of want to record it because the way you say bullshit sounds so good. I feel that that’s the case with an accent like, it just sounds beautiful. It actually sounds beautiful.
Giada Carta 10:16
I think it’s also annoying Italy swearing is sort of part of her language. So it was hard. Yeah. And really put her heart into it. So it comes out really strong, like it.
Amber Hawley 10:33
Should this is
Giada Carta 10:34
yes. So yeah, this is the first myth that I totally don’t believe. And I think it’s very, it’s very helpful to patriarchy, right. Because if all of us believe that this is the case, and we cannot be leaders, unless we have this set of characteristics, then we give up on that leadership thing, right. And we never tried to lead people and make them do different things that defy the status quo, right. So I think it’s about time that we stopped buying into that bullshit. And we actually start building our own concept of leadership. So in my idea, leadership actually comes from us. And it’s very specific to our own set of characteristics. It’s undoubtable, that we are bestowed on a specific set of characteristics at birth. And then of course, we develop some more of those, you know, during our life. But this is what can really make us leaders, whenever we embrace all our specific set of characteristics, wherever we decide, hey, this is who I am. And this is what I am bringing into the world with passion and fierceness, whatever I am, and whatever those characteristics are, when I own them, that’s when the magic happens. That’s when I become a leader, right? If I own that leadership, and then the second myth that I would really love to bust today is something that is a bit tied with this other myth, right, this person that was so so what happens is that usually since we believe that leadership comes with a specific set of characteristics, we tried to develop those in our life usually being prayed to frustration for our whole life, right? Because if I’m not extroverted, how can I become extroverted? It’s not possible, right? It’s just the way I recharge my energy, no matter how much I try, that will never change my whole life. So we don’t want to do that. We want to stop believing that we have to try and develop all those characteristics. And we have to stop subsiding to whatever narrative we are hearing about those characteristics, right? So I spoke about a patriarchal narrative that wants us with a very specific set of masculine, let’s call them characteristics, right, like 30, weakness, aggressiveness, and stuff like that. But there’s another trend that’s happening now, which is the opposite, right? And so, apparently, now, we should be cultivating feminine leadership, which is all about being welcoming, and sweet. And understanding and listening to other people to have them all come around together, right? I mean, Margaret Thatcher was the woman she didn’t sound at all like she had these characteristics to me. And I am a woman, I am very assertive. I am very aggressive when I have to be I have always been since I was one probably right. Does that mean I am not feminine? I don’t think so. So I think that this other idea of this feminine leadership that we should be cultivating is bullshit, I’m sorry to repeat myself. But for me this first reason it still buys into that particular RP story where everything is made of opposites. And there’s nothing in between, right. So we are either masculine, and we are that or we are either feminine, and we are this, right, this is not true. There is no masculine and feminine, that’s so polarized, this is how we are looking at the world. And until we keep looking at the world like that, there are not many chances that would change the status quo for real right, wherever we are leaning. If we are cultivating the feminine leadership or the masculine leadership, it doesn’t mean anything, you know, if we keep just fostering one of two opposites, because we should actually be working for balance between those two opposites this is the way in my opinion. And so, you know, this all comes into the other concept that I said first, the the earlier, we buy into this new idea of leadership where you know, the only leadership that you can have is the one that starts from who you are, regardless of feminine or masculine characteristics, the better. So this is what I think we should be doing, rather than listening to stupid old miss.
Amber Hawley 15:30
No, I love that. I mean, you said so many things that I want to come back to. But there is there’s a lot of truth in that, that when we’re looking at them as two Stark opposites, there’s always that opposition and then there’s going to be that tension. But most people embody both characteristics. Right? Now I have met people where I’m trying to remember there was a couple circumstances where somebody said something like, Oh, you’re out of balance, you don’t have enough feminine energy. And I was like, huh, because I am very assertive. I’m very opinionated. I’m loud, whatever. And so I check in with friends. And they’re like, What are you talking about? Like, I feel I have a lot of feminine energy. But I also have a lot of masculine energy, which is why I enjoy working with men. And I feel like I’m great at couples counseling because of this, right? But there’s like that thing where most of us, I think, when people are looking at that, like you’re either feminine or your mask, and I think they’re missing the boat like this is the spectrum, right? Like you’re saying, and, and yeah, I think the problem with that, too, is in that first myth, it’s saying, You are inherently born with the right traits to do something, or you’re fucked. So you might as well just move on. And I hear this a lot from I’m gonna say, especially from the women that I work with, where it’s like, well, maybe I’m not meant to be a leader, maybe I don’t possess those qualities, to run, you know, run and like in body or kind of accept myself as CEO of my company. Right. So there’s this feeling of, maybe I have to do it different. And of course, right now, I’ve been watching the show on Hulu called the dropout, which is about Elizabeth Holmes and her Theranos scandal. And it’s so intriguing, the way that they depict it is She is literally trying to embody Steve Jobs as she is this young girl taking over this company. I mean, we’ll we’ll set aside the whole fraud thing, you know, like, but she’s trying to embody these characteristics. And often they show up as toxic masculinity. There’s this, like you said, aggressiveness. There’s a difference between being assertive, and being aggressive. And I think that is that aggressiveness is like the toxic masculinity. And unfortunately, you know, I think in our culture, we definitely, like there’s a level of respect for that, you know, there’s like, Oh, this is now I’m gonna pay attention, because I can see, like, you’re gonna hold this boundary with me in a way that, like, puts me in my place.
Unknown Speaker 17:58
Yes, there is you’re right. I mean, these qualities are glorified in our culture, right? And do we think it’s the case that feminine energy appears to not have any of those characters? Glorify all the others, right?
Amber Hawley 18:17
So it’s like, we run the world, dammit, I don’t understand. Like, our fucking qualities are pretty damn great.
Giada Carta 18:24
I mean, I think that it’s very stupid that either of these characteristics are assigned to agender, right, because we all possess them. And we could all possess them differently if we weren’t conditioned by society, of course, because you know, men are conditioned to not have any of that sweetness or welcoming attitude, right? Whereas women are always encouraged to have those and never encouraged to be assertive or to stand for themselves in their boundaries, right. So that’s also very convenient. And you think that to keep fostering that narrative of the feminine leadership, which is something that we see, very often, even feminist women or, you know, women groups doing is really not doing us a good service, I think we should really stop the whole conversation about masculine or feminine energy. And just remember that there is energy and that if we want to divided because it’s simpler for us between masculine and feminine traits, we should always remember that those belong to any person to any gender, it’s just two sides of the same whole thing. Right? So in my work, I really love to work with goddess archetypes, not in a new age fluffy way. Because they are the last power models, female feminine power models that we have before we started getting Christianity in the western model. Right, which gently presented us with just one model of trauma, which is the compassionate mother, right? A model that I don’t resonate with it with a lot at all, because I don’t even have children. I don’t want to have children. So, you know, it’s very interesting to work on these archetypes because they show us how we used to perceive feminine energy differently. In the past, if you look at very ancient goddesses like the ones from Sumeria, or the ones from India, you see that we have very distractive goddesses, they went out, you know, cutting people’s heads and destroying the world. They’re not compassionate mothers. So, you know, those were stories about women and goddesses, of course, that spoke about another side of the feminine energy, and now their side of women, right? So there were way more balanced than this narrative that we have today, where everything is leaning towards feminism, nice and quiet, and masculine, assertive and aggressive. Right? I mean, of course, I am extra polarizing here is just deducted moment.
Amber Hawley 21:19
Parenthesis
Unknown Speaker 21:21
for emphasis. But you know what I’m saying, right?
Amber Hawley 21:24
Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s the thing when you like going back to archetypes, it’s it. That is the thing, it’s not speaking about men or women per se, that yes, they may embody it in the goddess, but it’s about understanding the difference. Yeah, the different personalities, I would say that we see in people, right, and that there was a lot more variety. And then there, then there came that idea of like, this is what it means to be feminine. And I think, you know, nowadays, as we move more and more into understanding, like, we live in a non binary world, and we need to accept that there’s this spectrum. And there’s this range of how people feel, how they identify how they show up, I think we need to then transition that to our idea of leadership as well. So I love what you’re talking about. I think that’s fantastic.
Giada Carta 22:20
Thank you. And I think that speaking what you just said, you know, of us living in a number in a non binary world, I also think that it will be very interesting to just give up labels altogether, because labels are another very effective tool of the patriarchy, right. And so even if now we are creating new labels that feel broader to us, and that help us identify all the differences that we’re trying to welcome in the new world we want to create, I think that sometimes to create those new definitions is still working with the enemy, right in some way. Still, it is still a deer as to that concept of, hey, you need a label for things, right. And with those labels, we need to decide which labels are good, which labels are not right. Why don’t screw up labels all together and say, Hey, we all we welcome all in everyone, and who cares what your calls and was written in your label? Right? So this is something else that contributes to the redefinition of leadership, in my opinion, because very often this labeling thing is what contributes to that feeling you were talking about that you experiment with your clients when they say you’re not, hey, maybe I’m just not cut to be a leader is because they are labeling that leadership thing and labeling themselves and their qualities. So when they look at their qualities, they’re like, Hmm, this characteristic good, this characteristic bad, right? This is not how it works. A person is not just a set of characteristics that you can judge randomly. It’s a unique mix of those traits. And so they work all together inside you. They are not just labels that you can think about in the same way for every person, regardless of how those qualities mixed together in that unique way inside you.
Amber Hawley 24:28
Right. Well, there was part of my brain that throughout that process was like what woman you were talking chaos here. I feel very dramatic right now. I love it. I love it.
Giada Carta 24:40
No, I’m still European. I’ve studied a lot of philosophy.
Amber Hawley 24:46
Yes, I know. I’m like lovey, hearken back to my philosophical days. But I guess I had a couple of questions came up for me. One is, you said at the beginning you you think what’s more useful is for, like, a person to ask themselves the right questions ask themselves, maybe I don’t if you said right or better questions or ask themselves questions about me who they are, I guess, what are those questions that you ask yourself?
Giada Carta 25:19
Oh, you’re gonna hate me now, because I’m gonna blow your mind again. So I could also say that, you know, the questions should not be the same for all of us. Because if we start from that idea where our leadership is just ours, the questions could change for everybody. So this is the first thing that I want to say big disclaimer here.
Amber Hawley 25:42
First of all, I will not hate you that is such a we call it a therapist answer. Because what we want to say, this is where sometimes I used to be very, I used to be much more. Now I’m not saying this is positive, but I definitely was much more opinionated about things. Now I feel like I’m always saying it depends. That is our favorite thing to say, as a therapist. It depends which sometimes infuriates people. So I totally understand. Valid your you are getting no hate here.
Giada Carta 26:11
Well, anyway, I think that there is always one question that we can always ask ourselves, which is always the right question. And this is for anything, first and foremost, what is my definition of this? Right? So when it comes to business? For example, the first question that I should be asking myself is, what is my definition of work? This is a very important question, because we almost never ask ourselves this question, right? We grow up with a definition of question. Or sorry, but sowed upon the qualities that the gods give us, you know. And we grow up with that, and we very rarely take that into account. And we very rarely question that idea, that concept of work that we bring with ourselves. So that should be our first question, when we want to become business owners, then I could ask myself, What is my definition of success? What is my definition of leadership? What is my idea of management? For example, you know, for everything that I do, and touch with my business, I should always be asking myself first, what is this for me? Because we tend to not ask ourselves that those questions, and we tend to just, you know, go with the flow of whatever the outside world is saying about that concept or that idea. And then I also think that another very important question that we should always be asking ourselves, and this is definitely a right question is, you know, when my and how do all the characteristics that make me me work together? What’s my specific mix? What are the things that come easy to me? What are the things that I am really good at. And I also think that we should be asking ourselves, how we can work more on those, rather than on the difficult things. Because another thing that we tend to do is, when we work in our businesses, we tend to always try and reach perfection. And you know, if we have anything that come harder to us, we work on that a lot. We make a lot of effort to improve in those things, right? Why don’t we screw them and work more on the things that we are good at already on the things that already come easy to us?
Amber Hawley 28:55
Yes, actually something that’s, you know, that is really recommended when you’re talking about, maybe not in all circles, but when you’re talking about having energy and having flow in your business. And being in a place where you have that sustainability and joy that you still get from your business. It is about like, don’t spend so much time outsource the things you’re not good at. Right? Or, and really focus and spend most of your time in the places that give that light you up that, that come easy to that are your strengths that are your special gift, right? Like I think that’s an important piece. But I like I like those questions, even though I do appreciate that. Sometimes we’re gonna have those unique questions to each of us. But I think they’re really important because that kind of goes back to when I think about when I work with people as well, like, really questioning, you know, what does my even like systems wise, what does my workweek have to look like? What does my workflow What does how I serve people have to look like You know, because sometimes we think it has to look a certain way, when it’s like, that doesn’t work for me, like, so what? What else can I do? If that that isn’t my strong suit? You know, and then asking those deeper questions that yeah, I have never asked myself, like how I define work. Like, I’ve never thought of that I have asked myself, How do I define success? Because that was really important in me figuring out, you know, what is it that I want to build and grow and stick with, you know, for? You know, I mean, I’ll say, for the next 1020 years, maybe forever, but I think sometimes that even shifts, you know, and I, those were the questions coming up for me last year, you know, as I had this group therapy practice for 10 years, and I’m just like, I’m done, you know, like, I, I want it to be done two years before I was done. And, but you know, it’s like this feeling of how do you let something go, that’s really successful for this dream of something else. So I think it is, those are important questions to be asking. And I love that I love that approach.
Giada Carta 31:03
Ultimately, it comes up to, you know, not listening to whatever the external world is saying, right, which sometimes can be hard, because we’re taught to, you know, do market research and see what happens to the market. And my approach is more like screw the market research, I’m going to do what I want to do. Because, you know, we are trained to have that external focus, and to never ask ourselves those questions. For example, when we think about work, if I take my country as an example, in our country, work is very closely tied with suffering, right? So if I’m not suffering, if I’m not extremely tired, then maybe that’s not work, right. And he would be surprised at the enormous amount of clients that I have that feel guilty, because they are not working a lot, and they’re enjoying their business. And so there’s a lot of unconscious programming that goes into that. And if we don’t ask ourselves those questions, you know, ultimately about what internal rules we want to create, rather than just accepting those that come from the market. And this can influence us a lot in the end, right? So we really need to ask ourselves those questions to set our own rules. And this is ultimately, for me, wanting to be a leader means right in our own ways, but abiding by our own rules. And we need to define those first, very, very clearly.
Amber Hawley 32:34
Yes, and I agree with you that that idea of, we wouldn’t say work is suffering. But we would say work is supposed to be hard, especially that, you know, in America, we have the it’s called a Midwestern work ethic, where it should be hard. And that means you’re doing good work when it’s hard. And as things get easier, it is really disconcerting. I mean, I’ve gone through periods of that, where I’m like, I felt anxiety because it was flowing and doing well. And I had a period of time where I took a long break. Well, not a lot. I mean, it kind of I was working maybe five hours a week and making a really good, you know, really good money still. And that was really anxiety provoking, and I just couldn’t even tolerate I kept going, Okay, what’s my next thing? What am I going to build? What am I going to do, but I also was super burnt out. So I didn’t have all the energy to follow through, but it’s like, Oh, my God, if I could go back and yell at myself and say, just calm down and enjoy, yes, you know, it’s those internalize things are so deep, sometimes we’re not even aware that they’re there. And that’s where the, I think questioning and kind of checking in with ourselves is really important.
Giada Carta 33:47
Yes, time to pause and ask ourselves those questions. And also to find that balance in our work between working on our Bing and not only on our doing, because that’s what very often happens. It’s also very tied to what you were saying, right? That works needs to be hard. And so if I’m not constantly working, aka doing that I’m not working at all. And so we never take that space and time to dedicate to our being, which I think is extremely important and beneficial for a business woman and theater.
Amber Hawley 34:21
Right? Yes, I mean, that space to reflect. I think that we don’t do that enough. I think we don’t give ourselves enough space to think and like, figure things out and question things. And it is probably one of the most important things you can do for your business. And just for your overall well being because if we’re, I think when we’re so busy, and we’re just go, go go and I you know, I’m somebody who did that for many, many years. You just you’re doing something you’re building something only to get to the end to find like, oh, I don’t like this right. And so let’s cut that time and really check in with ourselves. The other question I had, because as I thought about this, and I thought about, you know, embracing who we are as leaders, my thought, of course went to some of the struggles I’ve had over the years with people, but particularly with someone in particular, where I think they took because I consider myself a very sensitive and kind person, I don’t think I could be a good therapist without having that. And so I’m like trying to do that in my business. But I had some male employees, or one in particular, who would think like, oh, well, then I don’t need to respect anything you say, because it wasn’t done with like that, like in your face authoritative kind of thing. So it makes me think like, as we embrace who we are, as leaders, I imagine that that means we’re not compatible with every single person like because I as like hiring wise, I imagine that there are people that maybe aren’t ideal, we realize personality wise for us as the kind of leaders we are. How, how do you support people in that?
Giada Carta 36:07
I definitely agree with what you’ve just said, of course, we will have people that won’t be compatible with us in some cases. And I think that this is another place where it’s very important to set our own rules in advance and to understand what matters to us when we hire someone, because too often when we start hiring, we’re still plagued by the book that we learned. And so many times that book says, Hey, hire the employee that has the best CV, right? Or that has the best qualities on paper for this role, right? And then maybe we read first. And it’s like, a life of suffering, where we’re like, Hmm, this employee really has the perfect CV, oh, look at how well he does in those tasks, but then I still eat him. Right. So I am joking about this, of course, but sometimes we waste a lot of time trying to make work relationships work, or hiring the wrong people. Just because once again, we were not clear about our own roles, or because we are not embracing our own qualities and leadership style. Right. So if I know that I will struggle with an employee that has the attitude that yours had, I shouldn’t hire it in the first him or her in the first place. And, you know, if I didn’t realize that Thurs, as soon as I’m realizing that should be written now, in my book of hiring, that will, of course, you know, develop over time, because not all of us have a lot of experience when it comes to hiring. You know, many times when we, when we started our own business, we have no experience in HR, for example, I was lucky because I had it from my previous 13 years corporate career, which is what helped me a lot in hiring and managing my amazing team. Thank you social team for existing. But you know, this is something that we’re very rarely trained to do, hiring people, managing people, and especially doing it in our own way. So we should, even before we start hiring, which should once again, take the time to pause and think and envision the team that we want, and also how we want to feel leading that team. This is super important. Because you know, you can change technical things, you can organize better with your team, but you cannot forbid yourself to feel emotions, can you. And so if you’re stuck in a bad emotional rut with your team, that’s not going to be pretty. And it’s not definitely going to be your dream business or your dream team. Right. So we should take that emotional part into account. We should take our leadership style and qualities into account. And we should also not hire in rush in my opinion, so many times we hire people when we really need them, right? I tend to hire people before I need them. Because so I have the time to train them calmly to see how they are to see if I have the right feeling with them. And if I don’t I never have them in a critical position where I’m like, oh my god, I can’t fire that person now because his or her role is too important at the moment. Right. So let’s also not try to find ourselves in that position.
Amber Hawley 39:51
Yeah, and that’s a really good point. And, you know, sometimes I’ve on previous podcasts, I’ve talked about other struggles where I’m focusing on the negative experiences, but I’ve had so many positive ones as well, like I’ve, obviously, you know, I’ve had a successful business for over 10 years. And, yeah, there have been some things that I’ve learned like that like hire slow fire fast, like, that’s a good rule. And I get, you know, you get better and better about the firing fast part that’s always so hard and awful and anxiety provoking. And it is intriguing because in when I worked in the.com world, I’ve actually been in management roles, like, ever since, even since I was like, 16, you know, like, even being a team lead, and then going on in retail and becoming a manager of a store and that kind of thing. But then, you know, in the.com, world, managing people as well. And it was so different because I could, I had such a detachment from like, the bigger picture. Whereas like, you’re saying, Now, it’s really hard when it feels like, you’re like, Well, you know, if I let this person go, this impacts my business, this impacts my bottom line, this impacts my ability to get to deliver on something with your, you know, if you’re delivering something for people, you know, whatever it is a project, a software, a service, whatever. And so it’s such an intriguing thing that, like you’re saying, most of us don’t get any of that experience, who started our own businesses, or even those who of us who have unless you’re in that HR department, because I think you get a different kind of like, feel and perspective. I think it’s that other part, it’s like the emotional pieces that come up, because like you said, we, you know, as much as I tried to be that detached owner, or that detached leader, oh, it impacts me, I feel all the feelings.
Giada Carta 41:45
All of us. And you know, this is another part of that bullshit narrative that tells us, you know, when it comes to team, you should be doing this and that, and it’s always the same rules. And these rules never take into account humanity or emotions, which is, I mean, do we still want to live like this? I don’t think so. And also, I think that it’s very, very hard to find training about this, when you are a business owner, you know, and you’re not a corporation. I mean, when I was looking for my own training, I never found anything like this in all the programs that I did. Luckily, it wasn’t something that I needed very much for myself. But I really know what is the total lack of this, and the very rare programs that I took, where there was a part about this, where, you know, super by the corporate book, like they were teaching you the same way to deal with your team, that the corporation’s do and so is like, hey, worked with the business owners that were going to change the world. If we’re still leaving our teams with their corporation books of instructions? How are we going to do that? You know, which is why in my program is like, team focus 100%, because I would really like to contribute to a different narrative about this, I hate the way that it’s taught.
Amber Hawley 43:08
I agree with you. I mean, I think it is really lacking. And I think, again, the There is comfort in that patriarchal viewpoint, only in the sense that if I can be so cold and detached, then it won’t impact me emotionally. When I have to let people go, like, Wouldn’t it feel so great to just let someone go and move on? If it wasn’t working out? Right? Like, if you were in that situation, I think that’s the fantasy that we have somehow got to be feel different. Or, like when you really bond and connect with your team. And then you know, you have these things come up, or they even if they move on, like their hurts that you can feel that betrayal sometimes, even though logically, you know, like they’re not betraying me. I mean, it’s a lot, right. Like, I think anybody who’s been in the thick of it for a long time and had a team, like, has grown, their team has experienced that. So I understand the fantasy of why that’d be good. But yeah, I agree. I think that’s part of why, you know, I love talking to people about leadership, because I don’t consider it a strength of mine in the sense. So okay, so even that I’m judging in the sense like, Yes, I’m not in that I’m not that way of I’m very sensitive, I get impacted. It’s emotionally hard. And I have grown a good team and have fantastic people who I have great relationships with to this day. So even that I was judging myself.
Giada Carta 44:34
Yeah. I mean, we have this fantasy of being the detached leaders and his or her employees, you know, have you ever met someone that really lived in fantasy? I don’t think so. And if they told you so they were lying, or
Amber Hawley 44:52
I was gonna say I know a few from Silicon Valley and I’m telling you they were print so yes. Toxic masculinity and also female, even from females like Tosca toxic masculinity.
Unknown Speaker 45:08
Totally, totally, totally. But you know, we, we are so easy. When it comes to judging ourselves in our qualities, you said, you think you can be a good leader? Because you’re so sensitive? Have you imagined how better the world would be if the world leaders had more sensitivity? Especially at the same? I mean, that’s the fantasy I love.
Amber Hawley 45:33
No, no, that’s how ingrained it is. No, I mean, part of me is like, I know, I’ve done good and built things and have these relationships, but part of me was like, but it’s not really my best quality, because I don’t have this other side. Like, it fucking takes a toll, when I have to, like, you know, give someone that negative feedback or let someone go like, it crushes me. So wow, it’s ingrained.
Unknown Speaker 46:00
It is it is. And this is why it’s so important to consistently take that time to work on our being and to, you know, keep working on that balance between what we are what we do, and taking that time for self reflection. And, you know, pause from the doing so we can do the work that’s needed to remember who we want to be, who we are, and what leaders we are, and not some side to that narrative. That’s so so so easy to fall back into.
Amber Hawley 46:31
Yes, it makes me think about people that I either in my network as colleagues or friends or even clients I’ve worked with, where they’re so shell shocked when that are so worried about it, that they are like, I just want to grow something where it’s just me, and maybe one VA, but just me, and I don’t want to have to do anything else. And I don’t want to have to look at leadership, because just sounds painful. Like, I think there’s this avoidance, right? Like it just like that. So but I like I think your approach is hopefully for anyone listening who’s in that finds himself in that place, which is understandable, right? That they see that it’s a, that it’s not about having to change everything about who you are, or have it be so painful, right?
Unknown Speaker 47:19
Yes, it can actually be so easy once we make that shift, because also, it can involve our team as well. You know, for example, in my team, it’s not only that I take into account my leadership style, I also take into account my team members leadership style, and the way they are, and so everybody’s allowed to work at their own pace in their own preferred way. And sometimes if they’re not very good at some things, we work around those things to, to make it easy for them to thrive in whatever they’re good at, you know, in the role. And this is not very obvious. It’s not happening very often, because it’s still buying to that narrative or of hire the employees. And you know, so they’ll do what you have to what you tell them to do, right. So data, in my opinion, and in my language, we have a specific word to describe the well to say employees, which is dependent, right, it means dependent, literally, I think this is very explanatory. One relationship that we believe is the best for us. And when we are business owners, we very often tend to also think that the relationship with employees is the best possible for us because so we can have control. Right, right. What if we ship the pirate dig them as well? What if we give everybody the space to thrive in their own way? I mean, people do great work when they’re allowed to do this, believe it or not, if you work with me, you believe.
Amber Hawley 48:59
I believe I believe it. Like I said, I’ve had I’ve actually had quite a few of those. And unfortunately, yes, maybe only focus on the negative but know it. I know, like you said, I think that’s a shift, I think as a society that we need to because I as a therapist, I work with so many people who are dealing with job stress because of that toxicity. So you know, I think it I think it is something that’s so important. And this is what I’m often saying, you know, there are many companies out there, you know, being that my practices in Silicon Valley, that I’m like, shocked as like, do they do any leadership training for these people because I can see that they’re just struggling themselves. But it’s like they don’t know how, how to approach people. They don’t understand people. They’re not necessarily people people. And so it’s like, helping people figure that out because it and it just keeps going, you know that trickle down. toxicity is just shitty and it’s not helping helping anybody, I think.
Giada Carta 50:03
Yeah, it isn’t. I agree totally.
Amber Hawley 50:06
Well, I know we could talk forever, because I think this is a really important topic, especially, I mean, it’s always been, because, you know, I believe in having like good mental health and wellness. But I think especially now with the, you know, hiring struggles and employee shortages that people are experiencing, and kind of people saying, like, I’m not going to deal with this shit anymore. I think it’s a really important thing to continue talking about. But if people wanted to find out more information about you, and the work you do, where can they go,
Unknown Speaker 50:38
they can go to my website. Soulfulmentor.com They can go on my Instagram soulful.mentor. Also, there’s something really interesting in my website, apart from my program, social business, which is always available for discovery, there is a very interesting leadership with that helps you to discover your most dominant archetype that explains you a lot of interesting things about your leadership style at the moment. So that’s free, you can take it from the website to find it in the homepage. And I think it’s very, very interesting, especially from people from the US that maybe are not used to work on their leadership style this way with a tools such as the archetypes, so be curious and go do it.
Amber Hawley 51:26
I love it. Well, I know I’m gonna head on over there because I love anything where I can learn a little something about myself or like have, you know, any, any kind of self discovery and I love a quiz. So I will head on over everything will be in the show notes for you. If you want to take the quiz and check, check you out and connect with you on Instagram. But thank you, thank you. Thank you for coming on today. It was so wonderful to have you here.
Giada Carta 51:51
So welcome. Thank you for having me and very was a great conversation. You’re right, we could have spoken forever. So
Amber Hawley 51:57
I feel like you’re at some point you’re coming back. We might have to have an archetype talk. I love archetype, archetype talks, so,
Giada Carta 52:05
oh, whatever you want. I think the lighting that’s one of my favorite topics too. And archetypes and leadership is just mind blowing. I love it.
Amber Hawley 52:16
Awesome. All right. We’ll be back to blow our minds. But thank you. Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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