Mindset Matters More Than Industry: Pam Andrews & Paula Kinney

00:00:26 - Amber Hawley
Welcome to season four of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:30 - Maelisa Hall
And I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:32 - Amber Hawley
And today we have one of our awesome Biz Bestie interviews with the lovely Pam Andrews and the wonderful Paula Kinney. Welcome, ladies.

00:00:42 - Pam Andrews
Thank you.

00:00:44 - Paula Kinney
Hi, thanks for having us.

00:00:45 - Amber Hawley
We are so excited about this. We met you guys, it was, I guess it's not two years ago, but it was two events ago. It was in 2017. Yeah. And like, what was it? October, November? November.

00:01:00 - Paula Kinney
October.

00:01:01 - Amber Hawley
October of 2017. And we just loved you. And then last year, it was at BizChicks Live. And then last year, I guess 2018, we got to spend more time with you guys. So we're super excited. Welcome, ladies. Thank you.

00:01:14 - Maelisa Hall
Thank you. We're excited. Awesome. I know. I love it. I love it. And you were BizBesties back when we first met you, I think, right? Yeah.

00:01:23 - Paula Kinney
No. Oh, okay. I'm jumping ahead because we met. We met. Yeah, we met.

00:01:28 - Maelisa Hall
Oh my goodness. This is amazing. Okay. I love it.

00:01:31 - Paula Kinney
Yes.

00:01:31 - Maelisa Hall
Okay. I know, right? Ladies, tell us each a little bit about yourselves because you have totally different businesses and all that good stuff. So Paula, why don't you start? Tell us a little bit about yourself and your business.

00:01:42 - Paula Kinney
Okay. My name is Paula Kinney. I live in Cleveland, Ohio. My company is Love Your Nest Kitchen Design Studio. I design and remodel kitchens. I also do interior design services for virtually anywhere in the world. And I'll also come on site anywhere in the country.
So that's what I do. Absolutely love it. I've been in interior design 17 years. But I started this particular business with a niche in kitchen design two years ago.

00:02:11 - Amber Hawley
Wonderful. Have kitchen, will travel. That's what I feel like. Yes. I want to hashtag you. Yes. Awesome. Thank you so much.

00:02:22 - Pam Andrews
And Pam? Yeah. So my name is Pam Andrews and my business is the Scholarship Shark. I'm a college admissions counselor consultant. So I work one-on-one with families, their students with the entire college admissions process, helping their students get into school and to secure scholarships to pay for it.
I started years ago, took a break and got back into the industry about four years ago as a college admissions consultant. And yeah, I love it. I work with teenagers, high school students, ideally in the 10th grade, 11th grade. Sometimes I get 12th graders.
with all the crazy college admissions process and the work. So that mom has more joy and less stress in that process. Oh, that sounds lovely. And you have a podcast. I do. I had the Scholarship Shark podcast. Wonderful.

Yeah. Thank you.

00:03:13 - Amber Hawley
So as you were saying, you guys met in October of 2017 at BizChicks Live. And let me say...

00:03:20 - Maelisa Hall
Because I remember talking to both of you the very first day that we were all there. And I thought you two already knew one another. That's because Paula was stalking me.

00:03:32 - Paula Kinney
I really was. I forgot about that part. I forgot about that.

00:03:37 - Amber Hawley
You want to hear that part?

00:03:38 - Paula Kinney
We love a good stalking story. We love a stalking. So I heard... Pam on a couple of different podcasts because when I heard it, my daughter at the time was, she's a senior in high school. And so I heard about her podcast, heard her story about securing over $700,000 for her son.
And I was just like, oh my gosh, who is this amazing woman that did this? So I listened to a couple of podcasts she had already been on and didn't really think much about it. And then while I was at Biz Chicks, because I came a little early because I'd never been to LA, she posted that she was on an airplane on the airplane on our way to this six live.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, she's coming. This lady that I wanted to, she's coming, you know, and I'm like, she's like super big, you know, scholarship shirt finds all this money.

And I was like, so excited that she was coming. So I like, you know, it commented on her post that she was, Oh my gosh, can't wait to meet you and all of that. So I had known about her before she had even gotten there, but. I was more interested in the money.
Like, like, how do you get the money?

00:04:45 - Pam Andrews
Tell me how you get the money. And then we, and then, so then we connected on the, so the first night of biz chicks or the first day, the big event is the cruise, the Harbor cruise. And we just started talking on the cruise and it was instant. It literally was instant.
Like, yeah, it was like a reunion at that point. I thought she was a little crazy. Yeah.

00:05:07 - Maelisa Hall
And I was like, okay.

00:05:09 - Pam Andrews
I think some of the best relationships start out with like, is this person crazy?

00:05:22 - Paula Kinney
Or are they just a fan girl?

00:05:26 - Pam Andrews
It's a fan girl? Oh my gosh, you're the scholarship shark, and I'm like, you don't even know my real name, you know, like?

00:05:34 - Amber Hawley
How long did it take her to figure out your real name?

00:05:39 - Paula Kinney
How long? I don't even know. It was the next day. I'm like, hey, scholarship shark. Hey, scholarship shark, you want to get something to drink? Hey, scholarship shark.

00:05:50 - Pam Andrews
Scholarship shark, you want me to grab you an order? I'm telling you, one of my favorite photos of us is like on the boat. We probably have met for like an hour and we instantly connected.

00:06:03 - SPEAKER_00
And I didn't even know a biz bestie was a thing.

00:06:05 - Pam Andrews
You know, I really, I did not know until you all, you know, you launched your podcast. Honestly, you talked about it. So I feel like you've got the, you got this thing on lock. Like this is your brand. And I was like, Oh my gosh.

00:06:17 - Paula Kinney
And we call each other BB.

00:06:18 - Pam Andrews
She'll call me and say, Hey BB. We just, yeah.

00:06:22 - Paula Kinney
Yeah.

00:06:22 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. It was, I'm like, Oh, so you gave it, you gave it meaning. If that makes sense. Yes.

00:06:27 - Maelisa Hall
Otherwise I would have thought she's crazy. And then my husband was like, you're crazy. Cause she came to our house.

00:06:34 - Pam Andrews
Like two months later. So next month, the next month.

00:06:37 - Maelisa Hall
Right. Not even. I remember you guys posting about that on social media.

00:06:42 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. In December. Real crazy. Like, you know, In my house with my kids. You don't even know.

00:06:51 - Amber Hawley
Oh, that is a risk. Yes.

00:06:57 - Pam Andrews
Yeah, she took the risk.

00:06:58 - Amber Hawley
And I'm glad, I'm glad. Oh, I love that love at first sight, it really was. That's so fantastic. So and then since then, you guys have really solidified that relationship.

00:07:15 - Paula Kinney
And yeah, so you want to hear the next part?

00:07:17 - Amber Hawley
Yes, yes, okay.

00:07:18 - Paula Kinney
So the next part was. Pam hired me to redo her husband, their home office, so that's why I came to Delaware in December. But. Keep in mind, she was gone. We met end of October, she went to Kenya probably second week in November, right? So we. She immediately like, I want you to do my husband's home office, and you can kind of.
We were trying to figure out how to get there, and you know, fly in, fly out and all of this. And so, um, she was going to Kenya. So I was like, Okay, send me the dimension. So we were kind of like, back and forth, I was sending her things, you know, made a layout of the room, all of this, so.
It was just basically like, okay, go ahead and do what you have to do. I'll be back home in December. And it was just like real rush and real crazy.

00:08:05 - Pam Andrews
Real good.

00:08:06 - Paula Kinney
It was good. It was the best.

00:08:08 - Pam Andrews
So it was a surprise for my husband. It was his Christmas present to totally redo our home office, which was very dated. Very dated. Big clunky furniture with the, like the, I don't even know what you call it. What do you call that thing? Hutch. Yes.

00:08:21 - Paula Kinney
The Hutch. The Hutch.

00:08:22 - Pam Andrews
Yes. The computer Hutch.

00:08:25 - Paula Kinney
Oh, yeah.

00:08:26 - Pam Andrews
That you put together. 1980s, yo. The ones you put together.

00:08:29 - Paula Kinney
Yes. This is the power of a biz bestie.

00:08:31 - Pam Andrews
I think we were besties because I don't even think your podcast at lunch. So we didn't even have the language. But this.

00:08:38 - Paula Kinney
No.

00:08:39 - Pam Andrews
But I knew about a biz bestie.

00:08:40 - Paula Kinney
I wanted a biz bestie.

00:08:41 - Pam Andrews
I didn't know about it.

00:08:42 - Amber Hawley
I knew about it.

00:08:43 - Pam Andrews
From Natalie and.

00:08:45 - Paula Kinney
Oh, okay. Okay. Organizing ladies. I knew about that.

00:08:48 - Amber Hawley
That's how I knew about it. I'm like, I want one of those.

00:08:50 - Pam Andrews
But I didn't know, but I didn't know who was going to be, but go ahead. So then he was like, oh, you know, Paul is here. I'm like, oh, yeah, we're just hanging out doing business. I just totally lied through my teeth. You know, we're going to do some, you know, follow up from the conference.
And he was like, oh, OK. He was so clueless. And then he went back out of town and came back and we finished it. But this is what I was going to say is the power to me of a business bestie for us, because it's more than just the biz. It's like everything with us.
it's everything. This Christmas, my daughter, who's she's 17 now said, Oh mom, remember last year, miss Paula was here and she had us all painting and cleaning.

And then this is what Sophia said. She said, she seems more like aunt Paula. She said, she feels like it.

00:09:47 - Paula Kinney
I didn't even tell you that.

00:09:50 - Pam Andrews
She said, she just came in.

00:09:52 - Paula Kinney
Paula didn't know my kids.

00:09:54 - Pam Andrews
My kids didn't know her. She's telling them, okay, paint this, do that, move this.

00:09:59 - Paula Kinney
Her kids are the best. When I tell you the cleavers, the cleavers, those kids, I went home, I went home telling my kids, you guys need to act like the Andrews kids. You're like, you guys need to up your game. They're so great and wonderful.

00:10:14 - Pam Andrews
I'm like, they're so great and wonderful. You guys are, that's because you came in and whipped them into shape. Don't even, it was you. You came in like a, she was like a no nonsense aunt. Like, okay, you're going to do this for your dad. We don't have, we're not hiring contractors.
Y'all are going to paint. I mean, The eight-year-old to the 20-year-old, everybody was working, it was so good. So yeah, so you just have that you cheated, I mean, she said, Oh, she feels like she could be an aunt. Paula. I was like, I am, I'm Paula.
Tell him, let's rename, we're getting the name.

00:10:47 - Paula Kinney
So much so that now when she's fussing about Sophia, I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I just texted yesterday about her, I'm like, who? I'm like, leave her alone. I'll let you have that, but we're done with that. You're not talking about her.

00:10:59 - Pam Andrews
I'm like, do you want a 17 year old?

00:11:01 - Paula Kinney
She's great and wonderful every day. I'm like, she's great and wonderful every day.

00:11:05 - Pam Andrews
She forgot about, I'm sure what her daughter was like at 17.

00:11:08 - Paula Kinney
I didn't know her.

00:11:09 - Amber Hawley
I was going to say, I think what's striking me about you two the most is you guys give really direct feedback to one another and take it in, in such a good way. Like, cause we talked a little bit before the episode and obviously we got to talk to you guys.
at BizChicks too. But that's, I guess that is so refreshing because, you know, sometimes people can be in like an overly sensitive space all the time. And so it's really, I like it.

00:11:36 - Paula Kinney
I love this. I agree.

00:11:37 - Amber Hawley
Honest feedback.

00:11:38 - Paula Kinney
Yeah, I think we started out like that.

00:11:40 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:41 - Paula Kinney
From the day I met her, I'm like, you're not charging.

00:11:42 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you need to charge more.

00:11:46 - Paula Kinney
Like, first day I met her, I'm like, that's not enough money. Yeah, I'm like, you're not charging enough. Yeah, you're like, hey, like, I have...

00:11:53 - Maelisa Hall
I'm your person. So, and I think you need to charge more.

00:11:59 - Paula Kinney
Yes. So I know. However, she said, Cassidy, but you're right.

00:12:07 - Pam Andrews
I mean, even it was probably maybe a month or so ago, you know, we just like something happens and you get down about it. She said, you have 24 hours. You can stay in this place for one day and then you're going to get over it. I was like, Oh, why did I even call you?
I'm like, okay.

00:12:25 - Paula Kinney
We do. We like, we have to get each other out of our fucks. Cause you just want to stay there and lick your wounds. And we had a, we had a patch about last week or week before we both were in a bad place and we didn't call each other. And I'm like, that is so stupid because we would have just, Expedited this thing.
So we were like, three days both in a rut. And I'm like, I don't want to call fail with this again, you know? Because you go on those up down, up down, and I'm like, again, you're in a rut, you know? And we didn't call each other. I'm like, we, we both.
When we talked, we were like, we should have known because it was too many days. It was like, we, what's going on?

00:13:04 - Pam Andrews
Avoid each other is not good. Yeah, it was like, Yeah, withdrawal, right? No.

00:13:09 - Amber Hawley
I was going to say, that's why it is nice though to have that support network because there are those times where I'm like, okay, if I want someone to tell me how amazing I am and say how bad the other person is, I can call this friend. If I just want to laugh, I'll call this friend.
If I want to hear it straight, I can call Melissa.

00:13:29 - Maelisa Hall
You get to choose. If you want to hear no, don't buy that program.

00:13:36 - Paula Kinney
You get to choose. Who am I calling?

00:13:39 - Amber Hawley
You don't call Melissa, you call someone else.

00:13:45 - Maelisa Hall
But that's, I mean, so that brings up a good point. Like, so you, you two met and then like really quickly had the in-person meeting again, which we've talked about really solidifies those bonds. But how does it look like on a day? daily or weekly basis?
Like, do you structure your relationship? How often do you talk? How do you talk? Is it on the phone? Is it virtual? All that kind of stuff.

00:14:09 - Paula Kinney
We talk like anytime, day or night, early in the morning, 5am. A lot of times it's like 5am because we both get up early and work out. We text anytime of the day or night. We call, we phone call, FaceTime, like whatever. And it's, it's several times in the week.
And, you know, just depending on what each one of us are doing, it might be, you know, eight times that day, you know, some, you know, when we get excited, when we get sad, when we get pissed off at clients, you know, we really are like, yeah, she's awful.
What does she know? Isn't she a terrible kid?

00:14:46 - Pam Andrews
Kick her to the curb, fire her, you know?

00:14:49 - Amber Hawley
So we, we get the, talk about, you know, how terrible clients are, why we don't want to work with them.

00:14:54 - Paula Kinney
Like, don't work with her. Or you should work with her. Figure it out. You know, so like, yeah, all the time. So there's no structure. We talk about everything under the sun. Husbands.

00:15:03 - Amber Hawley
A lot.

00:15:04 - Pam Andrews
A lot. A lot.

00:15:08 - Paula Kinney
Kids.

00:15:09 - Pam Andrews
Although I don't let her talk about her kids because I think her kids are everything. I'm like, nope.

00:15:13 - Paula Kinney
Change the subject. They're great. I don't know what you're talking about.

00:15:16 - SPEAKER_00
It must be you.

00:15:17 - Paula Kinney
We talk about that dumb dog. I thought it was him. So we talk about everything. So yeah, everything.

00:15:24 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. Oh, your turn, Pam. So what do we do? No, I was going to say the same thing. You know, sometimes it can be eight times in a day. It can start off as a quick text. And then it's like, forget it. Then we call. We don't voxer. I know some people will voxer.

00:15:39 - Amber Hawley
We don't do that. Yeah, we don't either. Yeah. We don't either. I don't get it.

00:15:43 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. Me neither. I don't have the app on my phone. I really don't. I really don't. Yeah.

00:15:48 - Amber Hawley
Although I will caveat that. I do think I realized that would be good with employees.

00:15:54 - Pam Andrews
Then you don't have to hear their feedback right away.

00:15:57 - Paula Kinney
That's true.

00:15:59 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. Yeah. And it is about everything. Husbands. kids, vacation, I mean, any and everything.

00:16:07 - Paula Kinney
Money, all of it.

00:16:09 - Pam Andrews
It's just about, it's girlfriends. It's just life, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I think the fact that we're the same age, yeah, we have kids about, like, it just works really well.

00:16:18 - Amber Hawley
So, yeah. Yeah. Well, that sounds very similar to us as well. Like I, it's always nice when we meet other people that do that so that we don't feel crazy.

00:16:27 - Paula Kinney
Yeah. Like you ran over into another area you weren't supposed to be in.

00:16:33 - Maelisa Hall
Or they're like, oh, yes, well, we meet every Friday at this time. And we're like, oh, we don't do that. No. No, we don't do that. Maybe we should be doing that.

00:16:43 - Paula Kinney
You're normal. It's okay.

00:16:45 - Maelisa Hall
My husband did say yesterday when Amber was calling at some point, he was like, how often do you guys talk in a day? And I was like, it's random. Like, who knows?

00:16:56 - Pam Andrews
We just talk.

00:16:58 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. Yes.

00:16:58 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. And especially when you need to get out of your own head, you know, if you're thinking about something and it's like, you'll just call or at least I do. I'll just call and, you know, just talk it out and then it goes on to something else. And sometimes it's quick, like, okay, all right, bye.
I got to go. Bye. I'm about to run here. You know, she's like, I'm about to go. I'm about to do a consult. Oh, all right. Bye. You know, it's good. It's really good.

00:17:22 - Amber Hawley
So had you ever had a biz bestie before? I know you didn't necessarily have the words for it, but did you, have you ever had something like that?

00:17:28 - Paula Kinney
No, never.

00:17:29 - Pam Andrews
So I, yeah. So I don't, I have a really good friend. I don't know if we necessarily call ourselves biz bestie. She's a, she's a little older than I am. A mom. She's like, her name is Cheryl. So to our kids, I'm, you know, aunt Pam and she's aunt Cheryl.
We've known each other for years. So she was more like a big sister in terms of parenting.

00:17:49 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah.

00:17:49 - Pam Andrews
So I'll tell you kind of the similarities and differences. But, you know, we talk business. She does writing, ghost writing, and she's written tons of curriculum and books. And so she has a business. So we've done that. And we talk about a lot of different things because she's known my kids forever.
And I know her kids, you know, they've grown up and together and all that good stuff. But what I think is different with this, because Cheryl is more like a, I mean, there's a bigger age gap because her oldest... More like a mentor. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
And so I find I can definitely talk business to her. And, you know, well, I may say something, but I think definitely with like Paula is all about when it comes to biz bestie, Paula is about business. But then it's also like has like wings, you know, like it just like a ripple.
So it's also other things, too, if that makes sense. Like the thing, the cool thing I know about Paula, I could definitely see myself hanging out with her.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, like, because we talked about like, oh, we need to go to Puerto Rico or girl, what, you know, like we're talking about what we're like, do we need to tell our husband it's a vacation? Like, you know, that we want to do, you know, get stuff done.
We can write to make it official, but it's really a girlfriend trip. You know how you got to do. Right. So with Cheryl, I know I would never do that. And what's funny is my kids know that it's Sophie even said, she said, Because they recognize, which is good for a young girl to see female, to me, healthy female relationships and how they can be so different.
Because I think when you're young, you can go through petty, catty and not see what it looks like. And so you can have one and it's strong and it's intact. And you can have another new one, you know, because I've got one who I've had for forever, you know, like at least 15, 21, like 15, 16 years now.

And then one that's like a year or two years. And it's not like one takes away from the other. And I'll talk about Cheryl to Paula. I'll talk about Paula to Cheryl. I'll say, oh, and I also asked Paula, what do you think? And they're two different people.
But Sophia said, I don't think you and Aunt Cheryl will ever go on vacation together. I'm like, yeah, you're right. Our families... Yeah, she's not that kind of hangout girlfriend. Yeah. But Paula is like so fly and just fun. Like I could totally like, you know, we could hang out on a beach or some island somewhere, have the best time, you know?
So yeah.

00:20:08 - Maelisa Hall
Well, let us know when you plan the Puerto Rico trip. Okay. I know.

00:20:12 - Amber Hawley
I know, right? I know.

00:20:15 - Maelisa Hall
That would be fun.

00:20:16 - Paula Kinney
I was trying to get her to go because our daughters are kind of close in age. And so that's probably the trip that we'll take.

00:20:23 - Amber Hawley
Oh, that would be good.

00:20:25 - Paula Kinney
But yeah, but the thing, my daughter, speaking of daughters, because both of us are really close with our daughters. And so that's good, especially at these ages. My daughter's 18. Her daughter just turned 17. And so my daughter said, she was like, She was like, you and Miss Pam are like really close, aren't you?
And she was like, yeah. She was like, but you haven't known her that long. I said, you know what, Cassidy? When you get, when you are older and you just click with people, you just go with it and you just automatically become close and you, it's good.
And it's like, I've been knowing her forever because my daughter even recognized like, you guys talk all the time.

00:21:01 - Amber Hawley
You know, because she even said the trip, we're going away for spring break.

00:21:04 - Paula Kinney
She was like, you just ask Miss Pam if she wants to, you know, come with her daughter. And I was like, oh, okay, I'll ask her. So I did, but they were doing something else. Or not yet, whatever. But yeah, so my daughter even recognizes it. And it is a good thing because, you know, girls, by our daughters being really close to us, they watch everything we do.
So it doesn't matter what you say, they watch your life and they see it and they emulate it and they realize like, oh, okay, this is how you have a relationship. This is how you, you know, you and your friends connect, you know, so. Our daughters both like watch our every move.
Yeah.

00:21:38 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. And you don't realize, you know, I remember, I'm going to kind of go off the path and you can pull me in for a second. But I remember once when Sophia was younger and I had one of her friends over the house. I said, what do you guys want? You know, I was trying to give them options.
Like, do you want hot dog or pizza? And she paused. I'll never forget. She paused to wait to see what her friend said. And I'm like, and I, you know, she was young. She was like 10-ish. And I said, no, what do you want? You know what? You know, because, you know, this is a fun thing.
I'll do both. But speak up. It's okay, you know, as a woman to say, this is what I want. And so, I don't know. I think subconsciously, I don't know. I try to parent with intention. But, you know, when that happened, again, she was little. And, you know, you may think, well, it's just food.
Well, you know, it can turn into other things later on.

Like, oh, I don't want to go to this college. Or I don't want to move to this city. Or I don't want that, you know. So, you know, just... kind of dealing with it early. But like Paula just said, I just think it's so good. To me, this is one of the extra benefits, which I hadn't even thought about to this conversation of just having a biz bestie and great female relationships, especially ours, the way it connected so fast that they can see, oh, we didn't have to play together, you know, as little kids and grow up in the same town because we're two different, we're far apart from each other, hours away, but the connection is strong.
And I think it's like you said, it's they're watching us. We don't, you don't think they're watching, but they're really watching and learning. And I don't know. I think that's even more powerful.

00:23:10 - Paula Kinney
So the one thing I was going to say about the difference in relationships between is because by us coming through like biz chicks, our mindset, this is a different, and you guys probably know this when people aren't doing the same things or similar things to you, business-wise, they don't get, you know, like you start talking about mindset, you start talking about you know, attraction, you start talking about, you know, just all of the different verbiage that we use.
And we like automatically, you know, like you're thinking small and you need to be thinking bigger outside of, you know, different things that we say. It's a different, it's like a whole new world. And it's like, you don't even want to have time to explain to people what, what we're thinking, how we're talking.
Like, it's just like, I have coffee. I'll be like, you know what? I have this mindset issues on this and that.

I'm thinking small. You know, what should I do? It's, you know, goal setting big and just thinking beyond. We both like push each other to think outside of the box. And we're like, no, you are going to be at this place at this time. That's what we're speaking.
That's what we're saying. Right. You know, let's go.

00:24:12 - Amber Hawley
And I think that's a really important point because we have noticed this as well, that there are some people who are in the stage of business and it's normal, but they don't even realize they have mindset issues. Like they don't even understand that. And like you said, you're like, okay, But I'm not here to teach you that.
So go find someone. But the people I want in my inner circle have to be in a certain space and understanding. And it's not like you have to all be exactly the same because the diversity, I think, is really beneficial. But understanding like, okay, this is the place we're at and we're really trying to up-level our mindset and understand what that means and be able to take a look at those things.
So I think that's super valuable.

00:24:54 - Pam Andrews
Right. And I like the way you said it, Paula. Like you really... I don't like, and both of you, you too, Amber, like, I don't have time to explain it to you, you know, cause it's just, that's just too much. You got to go back and listen to a whole bunch of podcasts, do a whole bunch of mastermind.
It's just too much. Okay. No, no, no. Right. Right. I have to say this. I remember I had gone to a conference. And, you know, you meet people at conferences. I was talking to this one lady and I don't know, she just quickly fell in love with me. Not to sound funny, but, and then she actually said to me, she said, we ought to connect.
You know, she said, this is what she said. She said, I'm looking for a girlfriend that I can really talk to about business. I was like, I'm like, no, I called Paula afterwards. I was like, she was like, I'm like, you know, you could just tell we were just on two different.

00:25:41 - Amber Hawley
Yeah.

00:25:42 - Pam Andrews
And I wasn't even looking and I was just like, so you're monogamous is what you're saying.

00:25:47 - Amber Hawley
Yes.

00:25:48 - Pam Andrews
I was just like, you know, cause I was sharing stuff, you know, when something's in you, it comes out and you're sharing it. And she was attracted to that. And she was like, Oh, I can, you know, just need to connect with you. And I'm like, No, no, no.
I'm like, back it up.

00:26:06 - Maelisa Hall
No, thank you. But it's good for Paula to know that she needs to, you know, be on her toes. Yeah.

00:26:12 - Paula Kinney
You know what I mean? I'm going to start going to, I'm going to start following her to the conferences. What are you doing? Who are you talking to? Talking too long to that. Let's keep it moving.

00:26:21 - Amber Hawley
Pam is so kind because that person was actually me. So she's so kind. I thank you, Pam, for protecting my anonymity.

00:26:31 - Maelisa Hall
But one thing I love too, I think that's a little bit different about the two of you. Most of the biz besties that we interview end up being in the same industry. And I think that's how... It's either how they end up meeting or how they connect or whatever.
But you two have totally different industries. And I love that, Paula, you were listening to Pam on podcasts beforehand.

00:26:52 - Pam Andrews
She was stalking me. Get it right. Get it right. Yes.

00:26:54 - Maelisa Hall
Stalking. Good stalking.

00:26:57 - Pam Andrews
Yes.

00:26:58 - Paula Kinney
Stalking.

00:26:59 - Maelisa Hall
So I think... I love your story because you're showing that really it's more about like the place you are in business and the mindset you have and the type of goals that you have. You don't have to be in the same industry to support one another.

00:27:13 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. And I think it's so important. It's at the point now, I mean, we're honestly, so a year and a few months really, you know, like as biz besties and just close, right? Yeah. There was a program that she knew I needed to be a part of. This was back in November.
And I, I said, oh, I'm about to go out of the country. I'm not trying to start anything. She's like, you need to do it. That's all she said. I said, just give me the website. I trust her that much. She knows me. She says, Pam, you need this. Their doors are opening.
I'm like, all right, whatever. But I trust her because I know she loves me. She's not going to stare me the wrong way. And she knows what I want and what I want to create in my business. what I want, you know, for my life. And so I just trust her. So I, you know, I was like, she's familiar with it.
It's a program she's a part of.

And I was like, all right, Paula. So yeah. So I just, you're right. Because we're at the same place in terms of what we want and mindset and not to say we don't have hard days and moments and dips, but you know, we don't stay there long. We know how to pull each other out and nobody gets offended.
So yeah.

00:28:23 - Paula Kinney
Almost like they pulled me out of that ditch today. Oh my gosh.

00:28:28 - Amber Hawley
That's symbolic.

00:28:29 - Paula Kinney
Yes. Oh my God. It was amazing how he pulled me out of that ditch. Poor Paula. I'm still thinking about my situation, but that in that program, I was actually, I wasn't quite ready for the program. I know that I want to get in it.

00:28:45 - Pam Andrews
And I was like, damn, you need this now.

00:28:47 - Paula Kinney
Like yesterday I was in like a program that's kind of, it's totally different, but the people know each other and it's kind of was an affiliate, you know, situation. And she did, she got it, but I'm like, this is going to be the best thing for you. And it, and it has been.
It's helping me scale.

00:29:03 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. It's been good. Yep.

00:29:04 - Amber Hawley
That's so exciting. And so you guys have already been touching on a lot of this, but I was going to ask you guys, like, what do you think the benefits of being, having a biz bestie is? But I, I mean, you've already touched on many different points, you know, like kind of the role modeling and, the support, but are there any things you haven't already covered that you think are additional benefits that you're seeing in your business?

00:29:24 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. I think just for, as women, well, okay. In our business, in general, I just think it's so good for women to support each other. I think we're both at a phase. I mean, I'm a little bit older. She hasn't reached 50 in her fifties yet.

00:29:36 - Paula Kinney
She's not yet.

00:29:40 - Pam Andrews
You just realize what's really important. You know, I'm 51. I'll be 52 in a few months. And you just, you know, it's, you just want quality and quality with everything. And I think, you know, each, each decade, each season has its purpose and you go through things and, you know, and, and the 50 year old me is definitely not the 40 and the 30 year old me, but what I want now, I know exactly what I want.
And I love, you know, I can honestly see us like being old and fly on the beach together. I really can in our 70s. I can really see it, you know, just the two of us.

00:30:23 - Amber Hawley
I totally understand that.

00:30:25 - Pam Andrews
Yeah. I mean that to me, that's just been one of the biggest benefits, just having a great girlfriend relationship.

00:30:33 - Paula Kinney
So, yeah. So I would say the benefit, I mean, they're like too numerous to count. So there's nobody else on this planet that I could call and talk to about what I talked to about with Pam. I would have to have a tutorial. I mean, it would just be like a whole situation to try to get them up to speed, you know, again, because of where we are and what we've learned and we've been in masterminds and just that whole, just, you know, we read a lot of the same books and we recommend books to each other.
So it's like, if people don't know about that, it's like, you can even have a conversation with me. And so the other thing is, I mean, just the husband piece is so big because, you know, here we are women who we both were stay at home moms at a time.
And our husbands are like, whoa, these women are making, you know, so we kind of have to, you know, talk about how the nuances of that relationship, how to, you know, massage that because men, you know, have their thing.

And then, and just even with our children, because we both, were stay-at-home moms at the time. And Pam is still a homeschool mom. And just how you shift and even though your mindset, your heart is still at home, but you are like a multi-million dollar business owner, you know, just shifting over into that mindset.
It's like nobody else would get that. And it's like, I couldn't even, you know, get to the next phases of my business that I've been getting to without her. Because nobody else would be able to talk me through. If I call somebody else and say I'm in a rut, they'll be like, well, girl, get out of there.
I got to go. You know? And she's like, wait a minute. Yeah, right. So we like dissect the thing. Okay, what happened? What did they say when they called? Read me the email. You know, so it's usually like something that's going on. We're like, OK, OK, we'll see here.

This is what you can do. Like we break it down. We get to the root of it and we like chop the thing apart. Like nobody else would get that. Like I said, they would be like, oh, I hope you feel better. I'll be praying for you. Like, no, I need to talk about this like in detail.
I need to go in. We need to say some other things about the people involved, you know, and then we need to come back around.

00:32:40 - Pam Andrews
You know, like, yeah, she is awful.

00:32:43 - Paula Kinney
Screw her. You know, you need somebody to go there with you. You're like, okay, we're done with that.

00:32:47 - Amber Hawley
So let's go and bring it back in.

00:32:49 - Paula Kinney
Right. Right. I hope she never fights anybody else. So, yeah, so we do all of that. It's like nobody else would get that. Nobody else. Like, you know, really feel like, shoot.

00:33:03 - Pam Andrews
Has got, yeah, and especially those the successes, you know, when we share our goals, because we'll say, you know, this is what. And when Paula hit her goals in January, quick, like it must have been week two or week three, it was fast.

00:33:16 - Paula Kinney
I said, All right, congratulations, thanks. Yeah, yeah, so I'll text her, I'll text her. I'm like, I just got it, just got another client, so then she'll call me later. We'll be like, who is it? What is it? You know, we'll be like that. So we'll definitely always text and say we got a new client and then we'll talk about it like later when we can talk about it.

00:33:38 - Maelisa Hall
I think that's so important. Like being able... Even... You know, the other part is important. I think everybody talks about that, like having someone to bring you out of things or like having someone help you overcome things. But having people to like share your wins, like people who really get what a big deal it is and people who are helping you recognize, hey, no, look at all these things you've done.
That is huge.

00:34:01 - Pam Andrews
Yeah.

00:34:01 - Maelisa Hall
Huge.

00:34:02 - Pam Andrews
And both of our husbands, I mean, they're great husbands. You know, what about that?

00:34:05 - Amber Hawley
You got to get that disclaimer.

00:34:07 - Pam Andrews
So they're great husbands. I was like, the couples therapist in me heard a cough. But I don't, you know, at least my, and I know Ricky too, you know, from you anyway, you know, they don't just get as excited about all the little, they don't, I mean, they just don't.
And we just don't, it's like, Oh, so you can get to the point where you don't even talk about it. It's like, you know, right. Yeah. Forget it.

00:34:37 - Amber Hawley
They were like, okay, that was for dinner. And that's when you say, you tell me.

00:34:44 - Paula Kinney
Right. Ooh. All right. Nope.

00:34:46 - Maelisa Hall
From the therapist.

00:34:48 - Paula Kinney
Got it.

00:34:48 - Maelisa Hall
Well, I'm curious, how often do the two of you get together in person? Not enough.

00:34:54 - Pam Andrews
We, we, that's, that, you know what? See, we need to do that, Paula. We really don't. We do. We've been trying to figure it out.

00:35:02 - Paula Kinney
We've been trying to figure out because we definitely want to do something soon. Yeah. And we've been trying to figure out how we can, how we can get together. But we kind of had like, Biz Chicks was kind of like, okay, that was there. But Pam left early.
That was a whole trip.

00:35:15 - Maelisa Hall
I remember that.

00:35:16 - Paula Kinney
I was so sad. I was so sad. I was so sad.

00:35:20 - Pam Andrews
I'm like, I feel like I didn't see you. I know. I didn't leave early. I left at the end of the conference. I didn't stay an extra day.

00:35:26 - Paula Kinney
She left on time. I left early. She left on time. She was like, I can't leave in the night. I didn't, right. I didn't know I had to. I was so sad. Oh, my gosh. I was so sad. But she wrote me a note.

00:35:38 - SPEAKER_00
I still have it.

00:35:38 - Paula Kinney
Do you want to see it? Oh, that's so sweet. I have it. I did. That was so sweet. I was so glad. She left me a note.

00:35:44 - Maelisa Hall
A Dear John letter. She left you a note and you got to the hotel room and she was gone.

00:35:50 - Paula Kinney
Yeah, right. I was like, this is all I have to hold on to. So, yeah, I still have it. But we need to do that.

00:35:57 - Pam Andrews
We...

00:35:57 - Paula Kinney
But yeah, we need to, we have to figure that out. It's so much like we have so much going on. We have to, like, really get that.

00:36:03 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, that's why I feel March is going to happen.

00:36:05 - Paula Kinney
Yeah, I think you guys respond well to being told what to do, so I'm going to tell you March, yes, let's do March.

00:36:14 - Maelisa Hall
And I think you should get together somewhere in California, so then we can all meet up and have dinner.

00:36:19 - Paula Kinney
Maybe that's far.

00:36:21 - Pam Andrews
We can meet in the middle, where we are, where she is, where I am, or one or the other, yeah.

00:36:27 - Paula Kinney
I know. Yeah.

00:36:28 - Maelisa Hall
Cause I can go to DC quickly and like, I was just thinking from a selfish perspective of one, like hang out.

00:36:39 - Paula Kinney
But if you want to make it easy for you, but I love, I love California.

00:36:43 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. But since it's about a food anyway, but you know, we make them up.

00:36:48 - Paula Kinney
What do you recommend? How often do you recommend like getting together?

00:36:53 - Amber Hawley
At least twice a year? I would say at least twice a year. That's... I feel like... Because like you said, I think you guys talked about this and I know Melissa mentions it, that there's something about being in person. Even though we talk every day, several times a day, you know, there's something about being in person, the energy and even the brainstorming and just the connection that you develop and...
You know, it could be like those shorter weekends or maybe what's one longer trip and then one shorter trip or you meet at a conference or something, you know, like figuring out ways to kind of double dip in that. I know for Melissa and I, you know, for a while we were meeting much more frequently, but that's because we also started a business together.
So, but at least quarterly, I think is how we're feeling.

00:37:34 - Pam Andrews
Yeah, I like that because October, November... you know, well, first the conferences was that October, but that's just too long. And then it's like, I mean, we got up early. We walked on the beach and talk, you know? Yeah, we did. It was freezing. We drove in the convertibles.
It was worth it.

00:37:54 - Amber Hawley
But yeah, I think there's something about that. And it's just, you know, you get to, you get, cause you get to brainstorm in a different way that even if you're talking all the time, um, Cause you're just enjoying each other's company. And I just think it's really nice.
You know, it's a, it's a good breather too.

00:38:11 - Paula Kinney
So she needs to just come to Turks and to Keikos with us. I probably just should. Yeah. But that's not a, no, that sounds horrible.

00:38:19 - Pam Andrews
We need a, we need a, we need a planning weekend. And then when we eat and chit chat, but we get, cause we're both good at working. Like we know how to jump in our work, but then bounce stuff off each other. We just need to. Yes. Yeah.

00:38:32 - Paula Kinney
Yeah. I just had to come to, I have to come to DC.

00:38:34 - Pam Andrews
Okay. That's it. How far are you from D.C.? Six hours. Oh, that's nothing.

00:38:38 - Amber Hawley
That's nothing?

00:38:39 - Paula Kinney
Okay. That's nothing.

00:38:40 - Amber Hawley
That's an hour flight.

00:38:42 - Paula Kinney
Okay. Yeah. Decided. But I would drive. I would drive and listen to six episodes of BizBest.

00:38:49 - Amber Hawley
There you go. There you go.

00:38:52 - Paula Kinney
Done.

00:38:52 - Amber Hawley
It seems like a good time to meet you. Listen to us six times.

00:38:58 - Paula Kinney
That's it. Good idea.

00:39:02 - Maelisa Hall
Well, is there anything else you want to add about having a biz bestie or maybe like wise words to people who are listening to this and thinking like, this sounds amazing. How can I be encouraged if I don't have my biz bestie yet?

00:39:17 - Pam Andrews
Yeah, I think if you're just open, I think you'll find her. I think like-minded people tend to hang out in some of the same places. And it seems like other than either the ones who've been on your podcast or the ones I've met afterwards, I heard this term and got my own, that they meet maybe in conferences or Facebook groups.
It's something where there's an affinity towards the same thing. So I think they're probably there. They're maybe closer than what you realize. And I would just say, reach out. I would just connect. That would be my wise words. If you're looking for someone, reach out.
And again, even though I wasn't looking for someone, I just felt like I was blessed with such an incredible gift in Paula. Yeah. It was just something, you know, she always says, you don't about other people like, oh, you don't know what you don't know.
And so it's like, well, I didn't know.

I didn't realize I was missing this until I had it. And I really can't imagine life without it.

00:40:10 - Amber Hawley
So without you, Paula, all the tears, all the love, all the love today.

00:40:18 - Paula Kinney
I know I'm loving the love. The love is there. I think you have the intention because I did want it. And it was something that I wanted. And when you're open to having a deep connection, cause I think, I don't think it can be shallow. Cause that might just be like a person that a business colleague or something like that, but like a real biz bestie is, I mean, you're going deep, you're going in, you're open, you're open.
You're like, like I said, we talk, we talk about money, you know, husbands, like, you know, we go kids, real problems. Like it's not surface level at all. So I think, to have a real biz bestie, you have to be open to being open. Because if you're closed off, you don't really connect.
You can't connect if you're closed.

And you might call it something else, but I don't think it's a biz bestie if you're not really open and you're not really going there. That might be some other term, but bestie, we're all up in each other's business. I like that.

00:41:21 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. Yeah, the vulnerability has to be there. But like you said, you have to be in a place where you're receptive to that kind of a relationship. I love it. Ladies, you are both amazing. Where can people find you? So Pam, you have the podcast. And where can people go to hear about that?

00:41:39 - Pam Andrews
Yep. So my website is thescholarshipshark.com. The podcast is The Scholarship Shark Podcast. You can find it on any podcast player. It's on all of them. Or you can go to the website and... click subscribe and subscribe in your favorite listening platform.
And I'm on Facebook, Instagram, somewhat on Twitter, not really, but I love Facebook and Instagram. And yeah, that's where I hang out. Sweet.

00:42:08 - Paula Kinney
And Paula, if people want to find out more about you, you can find me at www.loveyournest, just how it sounds, .co, not com, .co. That's my website. I am also on Facebook. I do have more activity on Facebook than anything else. I post videos and I'm also on YouTube.
So I have some video series there and I'm on Instagram as Paula R. Kinney and loveyournest is loveyournest.com.

00:42:38 - Amber Hawley
So love to interact with anyone that's looking for design tips. Yes. And also she will be in Turks and Caicos in March. So...

00:42:46 - Paula Kinney
You'll find me on the beach there. Yes, I'm so excited.

00:42:51 - Maelisa Hall
Thanks so much, ladies.

00:42:54 - Paula Kinney
We love your energy.

00:42:55 - Maelisa Hall
You guys are so much fun. We could just talk to you all day. But thanks for being here and for all of the encouragement. I think this is like a really positive episode. And I'm so excited for everybody to listen to it. So if you got value out of today's episode, and especially if you know somebody who maybe needs a little pick-me-up, why don't you share this episode with them?
Share the biz bestie love. We had a little love fest here and let's keep it going. So spread the word. Thanks so much.