Improve Your Money Mindset by Learning Your Money Archetypes with Denise Duffield-Thomas

Social media gives us an “in” to how other people work. While this might be helpful in helping us see other ways of doing things, we often get stuck in trying to replicate someone else’s business.

What if we knew what worked for our unique personalities and did that, instead of trying to model our businesses after someone else’s? I’ll tell you what would happen: We’d feel a lot more ease around growing our businesses. I’m all about that!

This week on the podcast, I’m re-releasing the episode with Denise Duffield-Thomas where she gives us all permission to know our archetypes and leverage them to build our own businesses (not a copy of someone else’s).

One of the things we talked about what using the Konmari process in your business. Does every part of your business spark joy? What can you eliminate, automate, or delegate to bring more joy? And how can you let go of things that don’t allow you the mental and energetic space you need to be happy?

If you’re struggling this year, as so many are, this is a great episode to bring you back to your goals.

And it’s also a good episode to listen to ahead of my Get Stuff Done Challenge, which I’m hosting March 21 to 25. I’ll walk you through creating the schedule and space that you need in business so you can do it your way.

About Denise Duffield-Thomas:
Denise Duffield-Thomas is the money mentor for the new wave of online entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world.

She helps women charge premium prices, release the fear of money and create First Class lives.

Her books Lucky Bitch, Get Rich, Lucky Bitch, and Chillpreneur give a fresh and funny roadmap to living a life of abundance without burnout.

Her Money Bootcamp has helped over 6,000 students from all around the world.

She’s a lazy introvert, a Hay House author and an unbusy mother of 3. She owns a rose farm and lives by the beach in sunny Australia.

Links and Resources:

Time Stamps:

[7:45] – Finding the shortcuts in business–your own shortcuts
[8:56] – You don’t have to work really hard; find what works for you
[11:38] – Taking care of the mental and energetic space
[12:46] – Knowing your archetype and love language can help you in your biz
[20:49] – Our archetypes and how they work with our businesses
[27:26] – We discount ideas that feel obvious to us but not for others
[29:19] – Learn your own archetype
[30:54] – Easy is different for everyone
[35:53] – More archetypes


Amber Hawley 0:01
Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren’t reaching their full potential in business in life despite their type aways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur and as dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional care plantation. This is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay overwhelmed perfectionism and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you. Hello, my focus seeking friends. Today I’m bringing back another powerful episode where we dive into working in a way that serves you for this phase of your life and for your personality. We talked to the author of chill printer and one of my favorite Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders, Denise Duffield Thomas, this book is fantastic. And it’s a great one to reread, especially when you’re finding yourself struggling or stuck or pushing too hard. I consider myself an ease enthusiast, I try to set my life my schedule, I work up with ease in mind, I joke that I ease into my day and ease into my week with how I’ve set my schedule up. And when things get hard, I try to figure out a way I can make it flow easier. As I’m recording this, I’m on the beginning of my three plus week long book writing tour. So not a book tour, where I’m going out with my book, but actually, I’m going to finish writing my book. I drove to Chicago the other day two days ago, and I’m staying with a friend for a few days. And then I’m headed to Minnesota to stay with family and finish my book. I have been working on the book here and there. But last year when life happened, I lost all momentum and I decided I needed to change up my work environment in order to do some deep hyper focusing and get the damn thing done. Luckily, I have a supportive husband. And that the fact that I can FaceTime my kids makes it a little bit easier. But I needed to work different to get this major goal accomplished. This seems like the perfect episode to share because chill per nur is all about finding your own path to business, not my path not to niece’s not some other expert but yours. If you want to dive further into getting stuff done in your business, then I invite you to join me in the get stuff done challenge happening March 21 through the 25th where we’re going to dive into setting up how and when you work as the foundation for reaching your goals. You can sign up for free at Amber forward slash challenge. So let’s stop working harder and instead start working different

Maelissa Hall 2:59
Welcome to season four of the my biz bestie podcast. We have an epic beginning to Season Four for you this year. I’m Maelissa Hall.

Amber Hawley 3:09
I’m Amber Hawley.

Maelissa Hall 3:10
And today we are super excited to bring to you one of our biz heroes, Denise Duffield Thomas, welcome, Denise,

Denise Duffield-Thomas 3:19
Thank you so much for listening to me. I’m so excited to be here. And I love the name business besties or biz besties because I honestly think that’s been one of the most important things for me having these besties in my success in business because it’s it’s scary. Scary, some days, right?

Maelissa Hall 3:38
Yes, yeah. And it’s it’s such a roller coaster.

Amber Hawley 3:41
And that’s the thing, I think we find so much value in the business support system, but especially that biz bestie or, or the inner circle, as we call it, like having those few people because it is a roller coaster of emotions and just having those people who build you up and support you. It’s it’s hugely important. I agree,

Maelissa Hall 3:59
Denise, for those people who may not know you which Shame on them if they don’t, because we’ve talked about you like a million times, and like you’re part of our origin story. But if they don’t, would you give them a brief introduction to who you are and what you do?

Denise Duffield-Thomas 4:15
Absolutely. So I call myself money mindset mentor, which is a totally made up term. I am not a coach anymore. I don’t do one to one coaching. I’m more of a teacher but I also like to think of myself as just a friend really like a business friend, someone who will help you understand your relationship with money. Someone will who will help you stop the freakout about money so you can actually profit from your skills and talents and actually make money in your business not just have a hobby. So my books are lucky bitch all about manifesting get rich Lucky Bitch or that money and my newest book is coming out in February and it’s called chill printer and it’s all about doing business. In the easiest way possible for you and your personality,

Amber Hawley 5:04
we love that I’m so excited for that book to come out.

I know, I know. It’s an interesting one, because my first two books were self published. And I’m a very spontaneous person, and so is mark where we just get shit done really, really quickly. And to printer is coming out with Hay House, and it’s my first traditionally published book from start to finish. And it’s like, Oh, my God, it’s like a two year process. Like I started writing it, you know, like, more than two and a half years ago, and it’s like, it’s finally coming out great.

Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard from a few people is like, by the time the book comes out, you’re kind of over it.

I’m not. And I think the reason why is because I knew that I was starting to enter into the lessons of the book myself. So it’s not like I wrote it didn’t live through the lessons, but I was writing it thinking, wow, this is also how I would like to live my life. So it’s actually kind of, it’s caught up with where I’m truly at. It’s very interesting process. So I feel like oh, now it’s time for me to talk about this for the next year. I don’t feel like I’m over it, thank God. And it’s really weird, because my first couple of books and Get Rich, Lucky Bitch that you guys have talked about. We republish that with Hay House with new content and fresh examples and stuff like that. And so that books having a Renaissance, and I’m like, wow, I wrote that in 2012. You know, and people are just discovering it now. And it’s just barely gone into book shops in this last year. And so that’s having a bit of a wave and a moment. And that’s feels weird too.

Yeah, so if for chill proneural, can you give like an overview, the premise of what, what approach that talks about?

Denise Duffield-Thomas 6:54
Yes, so, for me, I think when I had kids, I realized that I couldn’t do business, like I used to do business, which was kind of like a mad, childless men is how I kind of started my business, which was, I guess, hustling all the time, working really long hours. And when I had my kids, I realized I couldn’t work like that anymore. And then when I had two kids, I realized I didn’t want to work like that anymore. And when I had my third kid, I was like, Yeah, this really doesn’t work anymore at all. People have always said to me, arginase, to make things look so easy, you’re so relaxed all the time. And I’m not. But I think the thing is, I’m incredibly lazy. So I’ve always found the shortcut in business and in life. And of course, that’s just my I’m human design. I’m one of those manifesting people who, I just do things. And then I just want to tell people how I did them. So I found a way that business works for me and my family. This book isn’t about saying, follow me, this book is about finding your path of least resistance and going on an exploration of your strengths and weaknesses and what you like to do and the kind of people you like to work with. And I’m really seeing a trend at the moment of people decluttering parts of their business that don’t work. And that’s kind of what the book is about, as well as just find the essence of what works for you. It doesn’t have to be a big business, it can be a small business, but it has to work for you and your personality, find the path of least resistance.

Maelissa Hall 8:25
Yeah, I love that. And I’ve always loved that your message is a lot of that. And I’ve heard you say that multiple times that you’re a lazy person, which I think is probably not true.

Amber Hawley 8:35
But it’s also my favorite thing, because it gives me permission to be lazy. And I love that.

Maelissa Hall 8:41
But I love that it is about like, you can make lots of money, you can enjoy making money. And it doesn’t have to be about like, you don’t have to redo everything every time you run a program and you don’t have to work super hard. And you know that you can leverage your income. And if you think about it, you know, you can do that. But I also love that you’re you’re emphasizing like how does it work for you? You know, and I think you’re always talking about that when you’re talking about money mindset and up leveling all of that. It’s not about like, oh, everyone needs to want to live in a mansion. It’s about how does all of this work for you and for your personality and your lifestyle? And that it’s also that it’s such an ongoing process?

Denise Duffield-Thomas 9:18
Oh, it really is because I think your definition of a first class life changes over time. I know mine is very different to you know, 10 years ago, five years ago, even two years ago, really, I think it’s shifted and you have to really honor that and you have to honor that in your business. People that you liked working with two years ago, maybe you no longer want to work with them. I also talk a lot in the book about graduating from your apprenticeship. I always said show apprenticeship. But you know, there’s there’s times in your life where you are an apprentice, but some people stay there way too long because they’re waiting for someone else to graduate them. And you have to decide that you’re ready to go to the next one. Go in business. And that might mean that you don’t serve everybody all the time. And sometimes you do leave clients behind, not in just like making money or trampling over people, but in honoring who you really are and focusing on how you can help some people, not everyone, and I think the right time to have this discussion with, you know, Kumari Marie Kondo his new Netflix series about Does it spark joy? Well, lots of people are doing business in a way that does not spark joy for them.

Amber Hawley 10:34
Yes. And I think this, well, this speaks to me on so many levels, because one, I have three children under nine as well. And it’s your right that each one, the bandwidth gets smaller. So it’s really about being more deliberate with your time and energy in what you’re doing. And we’re about to make a big shift as well. And, you know, in my, I have a couple of businesses and my brick and mortar. And so I think, like for a lot of people, it’s like getting to that point of, okay, it’s been too much of a rat race. And now I kind of need to, you know, check in with myself and figure out, okay, what is this next stage look like? So I think it’s going to speak to so many people who are feeling kind of burnt out or overwhelmed, and just kind of overloaded with everything. Yeah.

Maelissa Hall 11:16
And you can do that, and still be successful. And you can do that and admit that there are different phases. And I made a big change in my business last year, and I’m planning to make big changes this year. And it’s all about that, like, moving on two different things, and having to kind of clutter out what might be taking up space, even if it’s just mental space. That’s keeping me from moving on.

Amber Hawley 11:39
Oh, absolutely. The mental space is a big one that I don’t think people really appreciate. And the energetic space is huge. And it’s like running a computer with a wage many programs on it. And I actually saw a lot of people quit their businesses last year, but not in a way of like, feeling like they were a failure, but just saying, I’m complete with this part of my business, and some very successful very high profile entrepreneurs that when you might be surprised, but I’m closing down this part of my business. Yes, that makes money, but it just, I’m done. And there’s so much power in that feels very then. And it just feels very, I guess the conscious uncoupling of your of the business well, that I’m gonna use.

I love that. As a couples therapist, I’m totally going to use so in your book, do you go through the money archetypes and talk about that? And how that’s that’s how you find out like, what, like how to approach things is that something you come up with?

Denise Duffield-Thomas 12:39
I do actually talk about as many, you know, go and do any personality tests, because I think you can learn something from almost any personality test. And I talk in the book about how, even like, five love languages has taught me about my business. So I think he can glean anything from that I mentioned the archetypes. So I’m certified in the archetypes. That’s not my original work. So I would love to write a whole book about money archetypes. And I’ve actually just introduced Kendall someone to Hay House, hopefully, they’ll make a whole book out of it. Because it’s amazing work. You know, like love languages. I know that for example, words of affirmation, and my one of my lowest ones a gifts actually, I always get zero in gifts. I’m like, so how does that help me in my business? Well, people were sending me presence all the time in the post. And like, every week, I would get mugs, and books and T shirts. And and most people would think, Oh my god, that’s amazing. And I was thinking, I am such a bitch, that I feel so ungrateful that people are sending me stuff. And my mom would be like, Well, I hope you sent me Thank you. No. And I was like, no, because I feel paralyzed by all this stuff that I did not ask for. So even just knowing that that was such a low value for me, in my personality meant that I could put boundaries around that. So when people say to me, Hey, can I have your address? Can I send you something, I’ll send them this article, it’s like, gives a my lowest love language and they stress me out. I don’t want to have more stuff in my life. So your things like verbally, your things are more than enough. And please don’t send me stuff. So that’s just one example how you can take one personality test and go. Okay, now that I know this about myself, what do I need to shift and change in my business to really honor who I really am. And it’s just a process of elimination, you know, just little refinements here and there. Or you can go at it from the other way without even knowing anything about yourself and just say, what feels good, what feels bad, and you pick one thing that feels bad, and you try and eliminate it or outsource it or delegate it I always say eliminate first, then automate, then delegate but that’s because people for me are very low on like people if you eliminate, automate, then I delegate.

Amber Hawley 14:57
That’s awesome. And I think it’s a good reframe. For people, like you said that if you feel bad, like I’m being ungrateful for receiving all of these gifts, but you realize, because it’s so against your value, right, and I think about what you talked about KonMari I think that makes me think of like the minimalism movements that I really love. That would be stressful as well. It’s like, I don’t want these random things that I’m not choosing, and they, you know, that are coming into my life intentionally, I would much rather have your feedback. And so it’s a nice way of looking at something where I think normally, we would just really judge ourselves for it.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 15:31
Oh, absolutely. But even that, so another one for me for, like, so my second lowest is words of affirmation. So I decided really early on to say to my team, don’t send me gushing praise emails, because they don’t it doesn’t feel good for me. But don’t send me the hate emails either. Right? Like, I just don’t need to know it’s not important to me. But the the weakness that I discovered around that is that I wouldn’t ask people for testimonials. So we have to then say, Okay, well, because I don’t care about hearing feedback, good or bad. What do we put into the business to make sure that we’re still getting testimonials. So we automated that process. So they come in, even though for me, it’s, it’s not important. So it’s looking at all of these bits of information. It’s like a giant puzzle. And you’re not going to get it perfectly at the start. But over time, you’ll start to evolve and shift the way you do your business each time in line with who you really are. The problem with all of that, and this is a thing that everyone struggles with, is that we’re not used to having those discussions, a lot of us are not used to designing things for us because it feels greedy. We’ve been told from a young age, you get what you get, and you don’t get upset. And it’s hard to get out of that mindset of like, oh, no, I just have to be given the clients that comes to me, I just have to, you know, do business in the way that everyone else is doing it. Because who am I? To make it like convenient for me? You know, I should be doing it convenient. For everyone else. It’s like, that doesn’t work, you know, long term.

Maelissa Hall 17:03
Yeah. And I love like, you’re even talking about like, management style, right? Like telling your team Oh, this doesn’t, like, this isn’t meaningful for me, you know, you know, don’t send me gushy emails, because it’s not really a big thing for me. I mean, it impacts everything that relates to your business, right? And how you work, especially if you work with people, which we’re all working with people in some capacity. But if you’re, you know, doing coaching, or, you know, therapy, like we’ve done or, you know, have like a service based business, where you’re interacting with people, I think it’s so important to know, this is why we love personality tests, we’re obsessed, you know, because the more you know about yourself, like, the more you realize, oh, okay, I understand why I’m getting triggered in this reaction or having this reaction or why I am avoiding this certain task, or why I really, you know, this person really drives me nuts.

Unknown Speaker 17:58
Yes, exactly. I love like, I love Myers Briggs. I love Kobe. I think that’s a great one. I love the sacred money archetypes. I found that in Kobe that I’m a quickstart. Very high Quickstart and shine Quixtar. Yeah. The day means I’m can be very impulsive. So I had to put things into place in my business as well, that I don’t just go, Oh, cool. That sounds like a good idea. Let’s do it. Because sometimes I regret it. Because I’m just too impulsive. So I’ve had to put little things in place for my PA. Let me sleep on that. And I’ll get back to you. And that was the hardest thing for me. But that saved me. It saved me a lot of problems.

Maelissa Hall 18:37
Yeah, it’s so funny. You’re bringing up all these different personality tests that we haven’t even talked about yet. And like, we want to keep talking about all of these on the podcast. So I’m like, Oh, dang, we need to do like a love languages episode we need to do like, like a Colby episode because we haven’t done that one yet. We’ve done like driers.

Amber Hawley 18:54
Big time. That one’s been our most popular episode and then Enneagram. And but yeah, I’ve done on my couples fix podcast, The Five Love Languages, because I love that I think it’s so helpful to it’s such a simple way for people to kind of, like, look at how am I being filled up, we can have you come back and you can talk about all of the personality test.

Unknown Speaker 19:15
So my husband and I work together in the business and we actually even had a breakthrough last week based on Strengths Finder. So I’m a futurist. I love talking about the future. And and he’s not he’s like one of those ones that are like complete tasks. We’re going over no achiever. Well, he’s, he’s one of those ones that actually gets stuff done. And so we had all these frustrating conversations because I’d go oh my god, how amazing is it gonna be when we do bla bla bla bla bla, and he gets really stressed out because he thinks I’m adding to his to do list. And I’m not I’m just starting to dream into the future, like 510 years down the track, but it stresses him out. But and when he articulates his To Do List to me, I’m like, You’re bursting my bubble. We had a moment Write a great conversation about that, where we were like, Oh, this is why this is frustrating for us. Okay, that’s, that’s really cool.

Amber Hawley 20:06
Yes, that’s huge because that my husband and I have that similar thing where we had to have a discussion around. I have to preface it now with, okay, I’m just telling you something I’m excited about and I’m dreaming here, but I do not expect this to happen in the next few days, weeks. Or like, Yeah, I had to like, let go of the of the tasks or the to dues of it and just listen to the fantasy of it.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 20:29
Yeah. This is not creating an open loop for you.

Maelissa Hall 20:34
Yes, oh, yeah. CNA gets me thinking I’m like, Oh, are you an N on the Myers Briggs and he’s an S. I wonder,

Denise Duffield-Thomas 20:40
you know, the Myers Briggs one is one of those ones. I can never remember what I am. Because it feels like it’s too complicated. And like there’s too many things to remember. No, I cannot remember. But in in money archetypes, which I know you guys want to talk about as well. I’m a ruler, Maverick romantics. So the ruler is the workaholic. The Maverick is the kind of impulsive risk taker. And then the romantic is the like, ease and flow chill and a bit lazy. So, Mark is also a ruler, then he’s a maverick, then he’s a celebrity. So the celebrities actually made a lot of praise. So he’s not exactly where he is in the business at the moment. It’s a temporary thing because he needs a lot more recognition that he currently gets my business because he’s behind the scenes. So even that for ourselves, we’re like, Okay, this doesn’t suit you. 100% right now, but it will in the future. So let’s just chill for a little bit. So sometimes you know that it’s not quite right for your personality. But it’s like, cool. This is temporary, and then I can I can shift and change it.

Amber Hawley 21:45
I love that you guys had that conversation. I know. We were very excited. We both took our quiz. I’m a ruler nurturer romantic. Oh,

Denise Duffield-Thomas 21:54
okay. So, workaholic, doesn’t charge enough. What was the last one that you have romantic, romantic just wants things to be easy, and sometimes it just doesn’t want to face face reality. Yeah. So the nurturer is a funny one because the nurturer is such a beautiful gift to the world nurturers just want everyone to be happy. They want to take care of everyone. The real life lesson for nurturers is around boundaries and about asking being okay to ask for money in return or anything in return. anything in return, so, I love working with nurturers because I know that nurtures can change the world once they allow themselves to receive.

Amber Hawley 22:37
And I had such a good AHA in your webinar last Friday that I was on and you said the thing about if I charge or if I send the bill, I’m gonna get in trouble. And for me, it was like, like, that felt like the nurturer part of my archetype coming up big time, where it’s that thing where you feel bad even though part of you thinks no, I’ve got this licked, like I charge for what I’m worth, and I know this, but then you it still comes up. So I think it’s such an important thing to keep exploring and, and kind of going through.

Maelissa Hall 23:07
Dude, that’s so crazy, because I like I’m having an epiphany right now, too. Because Amber, and I usually get the same results on personality tests,

Amber Hawley 23:16
which is awfully bad for business, especially for us getting along.

Maelissa Hall 23:20
It’s maybe not the best for us being like partners in business all the time. But for this one, we had different and I was connector, nurture, alchemist. And oh, yeah, yeah. Because the I feel like I don’t have a lot of the issues that the nurture thing usually brings up. But then even right now, when you were talking, I realized, when I get little notifications on my phone every time I make money, which I love, and I’ll show them to Amber. And but when I get one of those sometimes if it’s one of my higher price things, I’ll think, Oh, I better wait to see if they’re going to want a refund before I get excited about it. Even though I’ve had like two people in five years, ask for a refund. Like that’s not that many. But I’ll still think like, oh, no, let me let me just wait to get excited because, you know, I want to make sure I’m actually going to money.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 24:10
Definitely the nurture has that guilt, the guilt attached to it. The Kinect it’s very interesting combination, right? Because the connector. Every archetype has a life lesson. That is, that is actually the hardest thing for you to learn, right, of course. So the connector naturally brings people together. But the life lesson for the connector is is getting over feeling bad about charging people for that. Because it feels like you never want to monetize your relationships. But that’s your path to wealth, in a way right, is monetizing the connections that you can bring for people. And the thing too, that I love about doing sacred money archetypes and my course of it too, is that it’s not always about literal things. So sometimes connectors think, Oh, I have to be what like a matchmaker and There’s like, no, sometimes it’s about connecting people with ideas, connecting people with, you know, other businesses. connectors can be a great affiliate marketers, if they get over, getting paid to do something that comes so naturally to them. And the lesson is that it’s, it’s not about exploiting people, but it’s okay to get paid for who you really are. Because of course, relationships are more important than money. There’s no doubt about that for you. But it’s, it’s like, you’re allowed to have both you’re allowed to profit from that skill that you have the nurturer have already talked about. And then the Alchemist is great, because the Alchemist is such a magical, you know, like idea generating. And again, alchemists really struggle with the idea of being paid for ideas. And that’s one of the biggest like, like mind blowing things that I see people on the course, is that they go, Oh, I’m so terrible at, you know, putting things into action, it’s like, but that’s not what you’re here to do. You’re here to spark things. You’re here to, like, take different ideas and make something magical out of it. And so I always say the alchemist, just put on your website, like an idea brainstorming session or a naming session or something. Because people need your magic that’s so easy for you. You think that you have to get paid to like make things happen for people? You don’t You’re the spark, you’re not the completed finisher, if that makes sense.

Amber Hawley 26:26
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Are you going to share your YouTube idea? Although then, I don’t know how you monetize that.

Maelissa Hall 26:34
I’m like, which one? I would have one where you where we have a YouTube

Amber Hawley 26:37
channel where you just give people ideas for businesses?

Maelissa Hall 26:40
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know, I’m like, I just want to give people like, Dude, I just have so many ideas. And I’m not gonna follow through on all of them. Let’s just list them all here and somebody

Denise Duffield-Thomas 26:49
that is the perfect Alchemist business. That is a perfect Alchemist business, right. So literally just put in ideas generating session on your website, like, you know, and I’ve paid for this a million times, by the way, I’ve paid for, hey, I need to, like come up with a new title for a program all I’ll contact an alchemist. And they have like a naming session. And all they have to do in that hour is sit and brainstorm with me. And then I go away, and I have to action that that is a thing people pay for ideas. That is genius.

Maelissa Hall 27:22
I know. I know, man knowledge bombs, boom.

Unknown Speaker 27:28
See how that’s the thing that’s really obvious. And, and we we really discount the obvious because we think nobody would pay me for that. Everyone knows how to do this thing. All the information is out there for free. It’s not people are paying for gaps that they do not have. And it’s okay to charge for something that comes so easily to you. And I guess that’s really the lesson of the book. It’s okay for things to be easy and obvious.

Maelissa Hall 27:56
And really everyone benefits when we’re all doing that. Right? When everyone is working in their zone of genius and doing what is easiest for them, then we all win.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 28:06
Absolutely. And, you know, anything that you think is like super boring, there’s someone out there who loves doing that as well. You know, like on the other side of it. Sometimes entrepreneurs feel guilty about outsourcing things because they’re like, oh, county who would want to do this shitty job. And accountants like we do and we love it.

Amber Hawley 28:27
That’s, we got over real quick. We’re like, Yeah, no, we’re not doing that.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 28:32
Saying to my bookkeeper, I’m like, I’m so behind in my my things. How about I just get it like perfect person, then I’ll send it to you. And she’s like, Denise, you can send me a shoebox full of crumpled up receipts, and it will be like a Christmas present. I was like, what you’re right. And she’s like, No, this is just what I love. And I’m like, Yes, of course, we can all do the same thing. If the world was just made up of Alchemist, there would be no bridges, there would be no like skyscrapers because we we all need different personalities in life to make things happen. But we feel like we have to be everything to everyone. And that just does not work.

Amber Hawley 29:08
Yes. Oh, I can’t wait to read this. And by the time this interview goes live, it’s going to be March 5. So your book will already be out. We’ll have read it array, front to back done it all. We’re so excited. But you mentioned if people wanted to find out more about their archetypes that you have a course that you offer.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 29:27
Yes. So you can take the quiz for free. That Denise D And then I have two options for courses. There’s a home study version, and then there’s a live version starting in April. And it’s an amazing course I can say I can say that because I’m certified in it and it’s so brilliant because I’ve made the most amazing course. But when I’ve taken I think certified in the method, but then I’ve taken it Denise way and I’ve gone okay, well, this isn’t in the certification. Like okay, What passive income would work for each of the archetypes, what kind of business models would work, what kind of marketing would work, what kind of team structure would work for each of the archetypes. And so there’s a lot of exercises like that, where you really get really practical in your in your business and try and design everything in line with your archetype. So it’s super fun. But the other thing is, so for the month of March, I’ve got a free online book club for anyone who reads ShopRunner, too. So I know. So all the links for that where you can go. And any, if you’ve already pre ordered from somewhere else, it’s no problem, you just still go to, you can put in where you ordered. And you can get the link could come and join the online book club. And I’m doing two live webinars in March. Yeah, to answer people’s questions about ShopRunner. So we can spread the chill vibe around everyone’s businesses like that.

Maelissa Hall 30:55
I know I love it. And I love how it’s all kind of full circle. You know, it’s all personality related and making things easy and making things based on what works for you. Because easy is going to be different for every woman.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 31:07
Exactly. That’s exactly the point of the book. And I think that’s why, for the last couple of years, I haven’t ventured into any type of business coaching. Because I realized I was like, depends, you know, people asked me, What should I do about this? And I’m like, I don’t know, you tell me more about you, you know, and now that I’ve got the archetypes there, it’s like, well, what’s your archetype? Oh, okay, cool. Now I understand what your challenges are. Now, I understand, you know, where you could go. But that’s why I think the last couple of years people have really struggled in business. Because, you know, people look at my business and they go, Oh, well, I’ll just copy your business. It’s like, but we’re different. You know, you might hate my business. And it works perfectly for me, but it might not work for you.

Amber Hawley 31:51
Yeah. And I could see, I think that the part where you give, like ideas about structure could be so valuable, because it sparks I think sometimes people get so focused in that person they’re following, or they’re like, the people in their life are telling them no, this is the way and then being able to say like, oh, wait, there’s this possibility. And I could structure it like that, and not feel bad about it to feel really empowered by that I think could be, I think that’s going to be so valuable. I mean, I’m excited to hear what it what it tells us to do.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 32:20
Well, I think if my first year in business, and I remember I had a business coach, and she said, Okay, you need to go, she gave me an assignment, you need to go to every networking event within a three hour radius of your house. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, as an introvert, I was like, This sounds horrible. And I said, but I don’t want to do any networking. Because how you gonna find clients, and look online? And she’s like, well, I don’t think that works. We’ve all been there, where we’ve taken advice from someone thinking that they know better than we do. And they don’t, you know, best, but you have to do the exploration first, because otherwise you don’t know. And also, you don’t know. But also, there’s a lot of conditioning to undo, especially as women, we’ve been taught just to go along and be nice to everyone. And, you know, our boundaries can really suck. Um, so there’s some conditioning around that. And I think it’s just permission, it’s okay for it to work for me. Because then I can show up and really serve the people who are meant to be served.

Amber Hawley 33:27
I think that’s such a great message. I’m very excited. I think I think it is a really needed thing, like you said, especially for women with boundaries, even if you’ve really done some work, and you get to a certain point, it’s one of those things that we’re always working on. And the boundary challenges show up in different ways. So I think it’s something to continue to grow and be thoughtful about. So I’m very excited for that. I agree, Melissa, and I would never have met. I don’t think I mean, honestly, we never would have met. I mean, maybe eventually at some thing, but so we kind of owe everything to you for for writing that book and bringing us together. So we’re not talk to you all night.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 34:06
Well, that makes me feel really good. And I think the same thing for me with Marie Forleo. She was such a great mentor for me. And when I joined her BS score, I was like, oh, there are other people like me who want to do business. So cool. And I think people listening you can be the catalyst for other people with your business. And it’s, it’s really nice to hear that Oh, my Oh, that’s so good that, you know, people have met because of my work. And I think it’s really funny because people send me messages about my book all the time. And they’re like, I was reading a book, and then this money manifesting. Thank you so much. And I’m like, I love getting credit for that. It’s got nothing to do with me. The other thing I want to share with you this is really fun. We just finished a launch. And people in my group are like thank you so much for your course. And I was really holding back on say I wanted to say to them, well thank you for your money. Like, and then I just thought, No, I’m gonna say that like, Thank you for your money. So thank you for buying my book guys.

Maelissa Hall 35:09
Yes and joining the course this too.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 35:11
Thank you. But yeah,

Maelissa Hall 35:12
I know I remember you said that it’s on some call last week and I was like, Yeah, it’s so true. Like sometimes you just want to be like, hey, like, Thanks for making it easy for me to go out to dinner last night, you know?

Amber Hawley 35:28
I know you have that that’s might be my nurturer coming up because you feel bad about that. You know, it’s like one of those things where you’re like, oh, but if you say that, then they’re gonna question Did you show up for me? Because you cared about me or because you want to just the money? I think, especially women’s minds go to that, which really sucks. Because, you know, it’s like, no, I mean, I can care and I can enjoy being paid.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 35:54
Totally, totally. Well, if you’ve got a little bit more time you want to talk about some of the other archetypes as well. Yeah, we haven’t mentioned. Okay, I just have to write them down just so I can make sure I get everyone because I sometimes sometimes I forget the connector and the connectors get taped up super personally.

Maelissa Hall 36:14
We already we already went through that one since that was that’s by far my highest.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 36:18
So accumulate is accumulators are the ones who are really good with money. So these are the people who can be very frugal, never in debt. And what’s really interesting when you know about not only your own archetypes, but your clients archetypes, you know what starts to trigger them. So for accumulators, they very rarely buy a program that doesn’t have a money back guarantee, because they’re constantly second guessing every purchase that they make. And they’re also the archetype that has buyer’s remorse pretty quickly. Right? romantics. We’ve forgotten that we bought something celebrities can’t remember that. They don’t know where their login details, are they even asked for a refund. But accumulators are the ones who like, did they like, you know, give us everything on the sales page? And if not, well, I’m going to ask for my money back and I’m not going to feel guilty about it. Or they have buyer’s remorse, and they asked for a refund. So that’s super important to know things like that. If you’re an accumulator, because you can have, like, just go, oh, no, this is just my accumulator kicking in, I really need to do this program great. Or if you are marketing to accumulators, for example. So yeah, accumulates, don’t understand why people are in debt at all, you might have some of these people in your life can be very frugal, but it can also be very organized in systematized around things. So cumulous have a lot of gifts, that, that often they feel like they’re shamed for, if that makes sense. We didn’t really talk about the Mavericks too much, but the Mavericks are the risk takers, sometimes the rebels. So actually, if you’re marketing to Mavericks, for example, having testimonials can sometimes have the opposite effect from Mavericks. Because they’re like, well, if everyone else is doing this program, I’m not going to do it. It can’t like get the kick starts to kick in their rebellious nature. They’re just like, oh, he can’t tell me what to do. I’m not going to join your program, just because everyone else is if it’s popular, it’s not for me. So that can be really interesting. But on the other hand, Mavericks can be great entrepreneurs because they can be very risk taking and bold. You know, they’re the kind of entrepreneurs that they don’t think about things too quickly. They just like fire, fire, fire without even aiming without being ready, which can be good and bad, right. The the connectors, as I mentioned that Melissa is these are people who love people, they love bringing people together. They love making connections, like physical connections with people, but also, they love seeing people, make our hearts create our hearts, creating connections for people. And as I said, really struggle with monetizing that skill. They feel incredibly guilty about it, because they feel like to monetize their relationships would be to Stolley. That’s an interesting one to overcome. nurtures, as I said, the over givers, the big hearts, they just want everyone to be happy. A lot of nurturers get stuck working in their day jobs, because they can’t make the leap to actually getting paid for what they do. And often to a lot of nurturers are in nurturing professions. So I see a lot of nurturers who are working full time as nurses for example, but they want to be like an astrologer but they can’t get paid for being an astrologer because they feel too guilty asking for money for it so they get their frustrated entrepreneurs very often. The Alchemist as I said all about ideas that they feel like no one’s gonna pay them for it is because it’s so easy to create ideas why would someone pay for this? Alchemist can also be amazing manifested and it can be just come so easily to them. But sometimes Alchemist manifests stuff instead of money. They’re like super magical. And their friends like how did you pull that out of the bag because they just manifesting last minute. And a really great thing for an alchemist is to get beyond the feast or famine. And they use their magic for other things. They use a magic to create an amazing life not just to survive, and to pull things out of there. But last minute, the big one, the alchemist. The Romantics love ease and flow, and beauty and they want things just to be nice and easy and chill. The problem is that sometimes romantics can be a little bit lazy, and they don’t want to face the reality of things. Like, you know, I have to mark it. No, I just want to sit back and have people come to me, which can totally work if you put the systems in place. Mavericks can actually be the archetype that really embraces passive income, once they get over the guilt of it. And once they get over the logistics of it, they like bring it on passive income me. That’s great.

Amber Hawley 41:08
Do you think romantics and this is a self serving question? Do you think sometimes like they struggle with their teams then because sometimes most of the time your team makes your life easier. But when you are having to deal with like, your team’s like stuff, their purse, their interpersonal stuff, like sometimes it’s like, Okay, I just want to check this all and be a solopreneur.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 41:30
Definitely. And actually, I think romantics do that a little bit. They just they chuck think they throw the baby out with the bathwater, or, I mean, one thing that I did as a romantic early on, was, I would hire people and then say, just do what you want. Just do it. Just don’t bother me. Just you go into it. And then they would never do, they would never do the thing. And I’d be like, just paying people for weeks of them not doing anything for me, because I have no idea what you’re talking about. Yeah, okay, great. Yes. So romantics, when we can really embrace that passive income flow, you have to get over your romantic pneus at the start to actually put those things in place, we can actually create really lean beautiful businesses, very easy flow businesses, like with my sister, I speak to my sister once a year now, because things are just easy. We know how it works, we don’t need to talk. Oh, my gosh, that’s magical. Now the ruler, the ruler is an interesting one. So the ruler is the Empire Builder. This is the part of you that super ambitious, wants to create a big business wants to just monetize everything, right? The life lesson for the ruler is about creating ease and flow, which is the exact thing that your resist your instead of creating ease and flow, you’ll start a new business, just to make it harder for yourself. Instead of creating either flow, you’ll create a new sales page for your thing every time instead of using the old one and making tweaks. Yes, rulers can often procrastinate, so they have to justify working all night, pulling all nighters working really, really hard. And it’s like a sickness that we all have, right of the thing that we’re supposed to learn is the thing that we resist the most. So rulers always resist ease and flow, even though that is that is our life lesson is creating businesses that a win win for people. But without having to work all the time, and not having to monetize everything, right, it’s like, some things are allowed to be hobbies, that don’t have to be your business as well, which, which makes real is really great consultants, by the way, because you can see a monetization path to everything. That doesn’t mean that has to be your business. So you can like the alchemist, you can give those ideas to other people without having to do them yourself. Makes sense? Yes, yes. And then the last archetype is the celebrity. So the celebrity is a little bit similar to romantic in that ways that they love. You know, they love beauty, and they love ease. But the celebrity is the one that wants the spotlight on them. They love being a leader, they love being the center of attention. But most celebrities are like have stunted that part of themselves because they’ve been shamed for it from a young age. And you might know people like these two, they secretly want to be on stage, they want to be in the spotlight, they want to be a leader, but they’ve been told you’re too much. You’re too loud. You shouldn’t do this, you know, you’re an attention hog or whatever it is your attention seeker. Whereas really celebrities can teach so many women’s the power of self worth and self care and loving yourself. And so when celebrities really, you know, overcome that and for them to be okay in the spotlight. That’s when they not only shine themselves, they’ll lift other people up around them. The only downside to that for a lot of celebrities is that they’re living the celebrity lifestyle on a toxic budget, because they don’t want to do, they don’t want to deal with the reality of money. So often they can be very impulsive, they can overspend, they can be in a lot of debt. And their lifestyle doesn’t necessarily match up with their bank account. And all of these archetypes, they have a shadow side, for sure. And it’s not about not being who you truly are. But finding ways to really live in the strength of your archetype and not be in the unhealthy pendulum swing around your archetype. And that’s why when we do SMA, we look at your top three, because then you can bring in different skill sets from your different top archetypes to balance each other out. And I also I also teach people how you can borrow energy from other archetypes temporarily to, to kind of make sure that you’re not getting in the unhealthy unhealthy side of it.

Maelissa Hall 45:53
Oh, I can see that being hugely beneficial, like for with your biz bestie if they have different, you know, archetypes or your spouse, which I think Amber and I both know which one my spouse is. Oh, yeah, do tell. Accumulator for sure. Oh, yes.

Amber Hawley 46:13
Hardcore, he may only come up as accumulated and actual. And then the rest would be something else. I’d be like, maybe

Maelissa Hall 46:25
110. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 46:29
You know what, I see that a lot where you have kind of an alchemist woman with like, an accumulator man. And it’s really interesting, because they obviously trigger each other a lot, a lot, a lot. I see even accumulators and celebrities, right? Totally different viewpoints on spending money. What I find really fascinating about this work and why I love it so so much, is because it’s not just about who you are. It’s really understanding who is around you, whether they’re your client, your spouse, your business partner, who you want to hire in your business. Because really empowering things around that when you really understand where they’re coming from, and what their triggers are.

Amber Hawley 47:11
Yes. And obviously, just understanding that allows you to not be as triggered by things and allows you to communicate as opposed to just being triggered and upset, and then just feeling like it’s incompatible. Whereas it’s really about just understanding each other.

Unknown Speaker 47:27
Yes, and it’s about right fit. I find sometimes, couples especially, they’ll do things that are not the right fit, like so sometimes I’ll see a couple and even though the accumulator should be looking after the bills, they feel like peace about it. And so they’re like, trying to force like, the alchemist to do the bills as like a way of showing love. Like, if you really love me, then you’ll figure out this spreadsheet kind of thing. That’s the unspoken agreement. Yeah, you don’t? Yeah, exactly. No, it’s okay for you to be the right fit and to appreciate what the other person brings in. Yeah, so it’s like, you know, you might have a connector in a relationship. And it’s like, they’re the person who makes sure you have friends as a couple, and that your kids have friends, and that you see your relatives. And that, again, is it’s like unpaid labor. Right? When you really appreciate that you really see that that’s gold, that someone’s bringing into a relationship that you might not be able to monetize in a relationship. But it’s still gold to know that that’s extremely valuable together. So it has so many applications with like your partner with your business with your marketing, how you set up your business. And I think it’s just been a greatest joy of my business in the last couple of years is to really appreciate that I’m a, I’m a roller Maverick, romantic. That’s who I am. I’m just gonna set my business up so I can feel good, I can win those things, and not beat myself up that, you know, I’m not good at the other stuff.

Amber Hawley 49:00
Amazing. Thank you so much for going through all of that. Because I know that I know, that’s going to be helpful for people to hear that and kind of start to get an idea of what they you know who they are. And again, it’s that acceptance as opposed to, you know, fighting against that because you feel like you’re supposed to be something else. A quote that I say all the time is one of my favorite supervisors used to say it’s easier to ride a horse in the direction it’s already going. And I tell people that all the time of like, go with your natural tendencies as much as possible so that you do make your life so much easier instead of feeling bad that you’re that you’re not, you know, you aren’t something and so I think a way yes, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 49:43
And that’s where, you know, like being an ShopRunner is not about living in Bali working from a hammock, but it’s which lots of people do i That’s not me. That’s cool, but it’s just about finding that’s when you just become like, this was good. Okay.

Maelissa Hall 50:00
Good. So go out and get the book people

Amber Hawley 50:02
ASAP. And take the quiz. Yeah, all the things I do all the time.

Maelissa Hall 50:10
Thank you so much, Denise. Because I think this was, this is what I love about pretty much all of your resources, no matter what I hear you talk about it. It’s always about self reflecting, you know, and really, like digging into whatever part of your life and then finding some aha, and how it can relate to your business or to your team or to your relationships. It’s, it’s an ongoing thing to do. And it doesn’t. I think what I like about the way you present a lot of this stuff is that it’s, it is an ongoing thing, but it’s not exhausting. It’s just like, Oh, hey, like, I got another AHA today. Awesome. Glad I did that work, you know?

Denise Duffield-Thomas 50:46
Exactly. Yeah. Don’t take it personally.

Maelissa Hall 50:50
Yes, well, thank you so, so much. Again, you want to give us the link if people do want to take the quiz to find out their money archetype. And also where they should go if they want to check out the book.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 51:01
Yes, so the quiz is at Denise And you will get your video of your top archetype for free and then in the email, you’ll see the list of your other archetypes. So you will know based on what we’ve spoken about. And then the book is available online, anywhere you buy books, Kindle or audible or that kind of stuff. But if you go to to just put in your receipt number you can put in anything we kind of check by the way. Don’t we get to these? No, I know but it’s like go buy the book, put in your putting your details in your receipt detail. And you can join our online book club which is open for the month of March and some bonuses and all that kind of stuff but I can’t wait to hear people’s that has about how did shifting and changing their business because I just think the world is just gonna be so much better when entrepreneurs are really just joyfully making money, doing the things that were meant to meant to do and more people you know, quitting their jobs to finally live their entrepreneurial dream is amazing.

Amber Hawley 52:08
Awesome. We’re all for that. Thank you so so much. Thank you. I was like we forgot I was gonna ask you what is your love language because I feel like if we keep saying nice things about you, it’s gonna turn you off

Denise Duffield-Thomas 52:19
my love language acts of service I think and quality time that quality time for me is like, Mark and I sitting on the couch, watching TV together not talking

Amber Hawley 52:31
hardcore into

Denise Duffield-Thomas 52:35
like, and then bring me food. So it’s like, quality time together, not talking. And then you bring me food and that’s my act of service. Oh, nice.

Amber Hawley 52:45
I’m all of that. Except I like the talking so. Awesome. Thanks, lady. Yes. See you next weekend boot camp.

Denise Duffield-Thomas 52:56
Yay. We’ll see you. Okay. Bye.

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