How to Tell if That Business Coaching Course is Worth It

Melissa Hall [00:00:23]:
Welcome to season 4 of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Melissa Hall.

Amber Hawley [00:00:27]:
And I'm Amber Hawley.

Melissa Hall [00:00:28]:
And today we wanted to talk about how do you actually assess the ROI on different programs that you either purchase or join, whether this is like a service-based thing or a product that you buy.

Amber Hawley [00:00:42]:
Yes. And I feel like this is such a valuable episode because I think I've said it many times on here, like I'm an investor in things, maybe a little too much.

Melissa Hall [00:00:52]:
You're a dreamer.

Amber Hawley [00:00:54]:
Yes. I should look at my tax return and the categories and see like how much of a joiner I have been. But yeah. So, but I do think as time has gone on and I realized there were some things that I invested in that in hindsight, if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have for many different reasons. And so, and we've heard this from other people when they're trying to make decisions around like, Do I invest in this program or this coach, or what is it that I'm needing in my business? So I just think it's going to be a very valuable episode for people when they're trying to figure out like, what should I do?

Melissa Hall [00:01:30]:
So we actually did a little bit of prep work and kind of have a framework for how you can think about this.

Amber Hawley [00:01:36]:
First of all, I love that every time we even think about talking about what should be in the episode, you always out us as prepping. I think it's hilarious. I think it's hilarious. We literally have 4 things written down, but for Melissa, that feels like, whoa, we just did a lot of in work time.

Melissa Hall [00:01:54]:
I know. We did. We totally like prepped hardcore. And actually, we've prepped a lot more for certain episodes, but we have people. We do like legit research.

Amber Hawley [00:02:05]:
True.

Melissa Hall [00:02:05]:
But the first thing— Sorry, diet digression. Yes. Is really to think about, and I love the way Amber, when we were doing our extensive prep work for this episode, Amber, I think, said it beautifully, and that's the first thing is that you have to assess your life and what it is you have time for and what you need most.

Amber Hawley [00:02:25]:
Yes. This is one where— this is where I would say I probably would have saved myself the most money, not because I don't find value in the things that I've purchased or taken part in, because I do. There's a lot of— I've been— I've gotten a lot of great things and I've done a lot of great things, but If I honestly took an honest look at my life, I think there would have been many times where I'm like, I have no free time, no available mind space. I should not be investing in this big year-long program or even, you know, 3-month-long program or even a 1-day program. I should not have done that because I didn't take time to really look at, will I have space in my life to dedicate to this? Consistently.

Melissa Hall [00:03:10]:
For sure. And I did that at the very beginning of my business, actually, like the very first thing I ever purchased before I even made money. Someone wanted me to sign up for a much more extensive program and I just didn't have the energy or the time because I was commuting 3 hours a day and working full-time. And like, I didn't have the emotional investment to put that much time and energy into something that was going to cost me like thousands of dollars. So instead, I I chose kind of like a downgraded version of what they had to offer. And it was the perfect fit for me because I was able to kind of like for a dedicated period of time, you know, adjust my schedule, but it wasn't something where I was feeling like, oh my gosh, this is this long-term program I want to make use of.

Amber Hawley [00:03:54]:
Yeah, and which is good because that's the thing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, right? There can be middle grounds. Now maybe with a particular coach or person or a program you're looking at, there isn't a middle ground, but when there is, I think that's, that can be a nice place when when you, you know, realistically, you're not ready for that. And I I think, think for me, I know in the past, like I'd either was guilted or probably it was my own internal stuff of if I want to be hardcore, if I really want to make this business work, or if I really want to grow, then I am going to find the time to make this a priority to make this happen.

Melissa Hall [00:04:30]:
Well, and people will literally tell you that. I know, call on their sales page, right?

Amber Hawley [00:04:35]:
And now when people tell me that, it actually just pisses me off. And then I'm like, I'm not doing doing that. So, but back in the day, this is, you know, this is, I've been in business for 8 years for myself. So it's, you know, back in the day that was, oh, you got me with that. You could really, that sales technique worked. But it's, you know, it's that double-edged sword of like, yeah, but if you are not in a place where you already, you already know that you don't have that bandwidth, be it emotional, be it actual time-space. And I had like young babies and I can even remember being like, pregnant or coming off maternity leave. Like, I was not in a space I should not have been investing in those things. So yeah, I think it's really getting clear with yourself and having a true heart-to-heart with yourself.

Melissa Hall [00:05:23]:
Yeah. And I think, I think of that phrase, you know, if it's not a hell yes, then it's a no. So I think when you do this and you go through this, then you're like, okay, is this something? Because I've had that where Literally, I was like, I want to make, for example, last year I was like, I want to make YouTube a big focus for my marketing and I want to get into it. And then the next month, a podcaster that I had been listening to about YouTube, she's like, oh, I'm now releasing my program for people who want to focus on YouTube and want to grow their YouTube channel. And I was like, boom, like literally as soon as I heard it, went on the sales page, signed up because it was exactly what I had already decided I needed. It wasn't like I got swayed by her offer because it just sounded so fun or cool or attractive.

Amber Hawley [00:06:11]:
And that is one thing. And I think about all my impulsive ADHD type people where it's like that whole, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no. The problem is I feel hell yes on so many things. Like I am like, oh yeah. I'm like the person who's like, yeah. And then, or like, you're like, oh yeah, I'd love to go to that event with you. And then you're like, ugh, I just wanna stay home in my pajamas and like watch Game of Thrones or whatever. So I think that, that that is a helpful saying. And I also needed to be sure, does this fit currently in my current life lifestyle? What's going on? You know, whatever, whatever the timeframe is kind of thing. So, but, but I do think that that's a great motto for sure. And you kind of touched on the next part I think is what is the need you're trying to fill? So when you're thinking about investing in a program, like you said, with the YouTube, you were very clear, like this is, this is going to be my focus. This is, you know, what I'm going to do for my business. And so when it came along, in a kind of like the Power Up Podcasting course, right? Yeah, we were like, we're doing a podcast. And then the course came, it was like, well, duh, I'm pretty sure I did not read that sales page.

Melissa Hall [00:07:25]:
No, in fact, I don't even think I knew. You just told me, oh, Pat just opened up his course, because we were literally on the phone. And we were like, okay, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do a podcast. You're like, hey, Pat just opened up his course. And I was like, boom, okay, I'm signing up right now.

Amber Hawley [00:07:39]:
Yes, I can almost guarantee you no sales page was read in that course. But 100%, absolutely no regrets. So glad we did it because it absolutely was a need. And there was a lack of knowledge there. So I didn't have any knowledge about podcasting or the equipment or the process or anything. And so it was like, that was a duh. That was a hell yes persona, you know, like, times 10 for sure.

Melissa Hall [00:08:08]:
And that's kind of a good example too, because he also offers that as like a weekend workshop where if maybe you're afraid that you won't have the time to or the motivation to do it all on your own, like those are all the things you want to think about because something like that is hugely valuable if you know you're going to show up somewhere, spend 2 days working on it, and leave with something done.

Amber Hawley [00:08:29]:
Absolutely, yes. And that, that's one of those cases of Yeah, maybe it's like, yes, I really want to make this happen. I'm just not sure how I'm going to structure it. So doing that upgraded option would be the right choice. And I think for us, we felt like if we weren't doing it together, it might not have gotten done because we had life happens. Like I ended up throwing out my back, you were sick, there were things happening. And, but because we were, you flew up here, we were going to do it together. It was like, well, you, You got to do it now because somebody else is waiting for you. So some people need that accountability. And I think that's why there is so much value in working with coaches or doing different programs because the accountability piece, life gets in the way, even for the best of us, even for people who are very good at delivering on their goals, right?

Melissa Hall [00:09:18]:
Yeah. Well, and I think sometimes something that's been coming up for me recently is also really doing that assessment first, I think lets you know, is this something that you actually should invest time in learning or is it something that you should just hire out because you might look at that and, and do that little evaluation for yourself and then realize, actually, no, like, this isn't my zone of genius. It's not really something I want to learn. I know I want to hire it out in the future. Then maybe that'll push you to, to do it now, and then you can focus your time on hiring that person instead of learning whatever new skill.

Amber Hawley [00:09:53]:
Yes. And that's that's where, where when I think about, like, what need are you trying to fill, I think again, had I checked in with myself there were quite a few things I did or invested in that I absolutely wouldn't have had I just hired an assistant. Like my need was actually, I was needing, I was needing to free up my bandwidth and I was needing to get things done. And instead I just felt overwhelmed like, oh, I'm not doing business good enough. Or like, oh, maybe I could grow if I had this coach helping me, giving me the strategies on growth. And it's like, well, actually, you know, they weren't telling me anything new, or maybe they were, but it wasn't— that wasn't the problem. It wasn't a growth problem, it was a manpower problem.

Melissa Hall [00:10:41]:
Yes, I heard such a good example of this. Mike Michalowicz's new— newer book Clockwork. I've been like randomly listening to podcast interviews where he and, and the woman who is part of this program with him, Adrian, are talking about it, and One thing she talked about was this example where they were working for this accounting firm and the firm was saying they needed another accountant. And I forget why they were looking into that. Once they actually did like a study of their time, which I think this is a strategy a lot of people could use during this evaluation part, is doing like a time study of what are you actually spending all your time on. Then she said they realized all of these accountants in this firm, it was like an accounting firm, were spending a ton of their time, like 40% of their time on all these administrative tasks. So actually, their recommendation was hire 2 full-time employees as assistants, and then you'll free up 40% of your accountant's time, and you will be hiring someone who is, you know, like a lower level of pay, right? I was like, that is so freaking smart. But that— it's one of those things that like nobody in the company spotted until they did that time study and knew what they were actually spending all their time on.

Amber Hawley [00:11:55]:
That is so genius. That is so genius. And yeah, and I think it's one of those things where you have to be really thoughtful about it. 'Cause, you know, I think I tell myself like, oh, I only you spend, know, 15 minutes doing this or that, or, you know, and we're not, we have time blindness. Even if you don't have ADHD, you have time blindness.

Melissa Hall [00:12:13]:
Yeah, we just have it on overdrive.

Amber Hawley [00:12:15]:
Yeah, we're like extra special. We're extra. But you either have, where you overestimate or you grossly underestimate, it really depends. And so it's one of those things where it's sometimes that simple. It's like maybe like boring and annoying, but you do those time studies and it can really open up. I mean, this is why looking at your data is so important, right?

Melissa Hall [00:12:40]:
Yes.

Amber Hawley [00:12:41]:
And so looking at your data, that, I mean, that should be part of it. I will say that that may be my number one issue. I don't look at my data when I make decisions. It all comes from an emotional place which really doesn't seem like a good business choice. I'm getting better. But if I had looked at my data, there are times where it's like, financially, no, this is not the time to invest in that, you know? And it really, I have to be in extreme situations for that to happen. And so this year, like, I'm getting really cognizant about that and going forward where I'm like, okay, I really, I need to have one, the available money for doing something and investing in it. And two, I need to know the ROI is really going to pay off. Like you're saying, is there something, is there a different solution to the issue I'm having that would cost less and be more efficient or be easier to, you know, it's like lower hanging fruit kind of thing, or do I invest in this?

Melissa Hall [00:13:38]:
Yes. Well, I think that, and that was the second thing we were looking at, right? Like in the points that we so mindfully created in our preparation time was actually establishing what is the ROI that you're looking for. It can be so easy to get emotionally swayed by these certain things, but then you need to be able to say and ask the person, like, for example, I think of, you know, like a coaching program, right? Like, ask the person, like, what is the ROI I can get out of joining this program? Like, what will I be able to see? What changes can I make? Like, you know, if, if it's one of those sales call things, like, talk to them and really dig into them because you want to have an idea of how things should look different for you. After you complete this course or join this program, right? Like, you want to know what is it that you're experiencing now that's going to look different 6 months from now, 6 weeks from now, whatever.

Amber Hawley [00:14:29]:
Yeah. And those are questions that sometimes we can feel uncomfortable asking, or, or we hear their sales pitch and assume we know. And I think that's, that's being the, that's the emotional sway. It's like, okay, I, I feel like what I heard you saying was this, but I want to know, like, realistically, like, how is that going to be achieved? Or what should I be looking for? And of course, with especially I'm thinking of coaching, there's no guarantee because you have to put in the sweat equity. Like, if you're not willing to do the work, like, no program is going to help you. Trust me. For sure.

Melissa Hall [00:15:04]:
But it's so— it is so different when, when coaches can tell you, right? Like, we will have this done, or I will work with you on this.

Amber Hawley [00:15:12]:
Yeah.

Melissa Hall [00:15:13]:
And you will know exactly how to measure, like, whether or not they're doing their work and whether or not you're doing your work. I think that's part of it too, right? It's like, kind of like you're saying, knowing how much time you have to invest in something, but also knowing, like, what is it that you expect me to do throughout this program?

Amber Hawley [00:15:29]:
That's a great question to ask because, you know, hopefully having a discussion— if I guess right now we're speaking more of like one-on-one stuff, or where you're getting at least you're getting some of that one-on-one time. It might not be fully one-on-one, but you're getting that feedback of like, here are the challenges that I face. Here's where it's hard for me to be consistent. And can you help with that? And then what do I need to do? Like, how do I need to show up? And what is the expectation? And then really, really being real with yourself. Like, is that something I can do right now? And not letting it be an ego response of like, well, I should do it. If I was a good business owner, I would do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, well, yeah, of course, but that's not realistic.

Melissa Hall [00:16:12]:
And I don't like being on the other end of that. I never, as a business owner, feel bad when someone has been like emailing me more detailed questions about the program, wanting to know like how much time to expect to— that they should be investing in, or what level of technology they'll need to feel comfortable with, or even like, you know, how much will they be able to interact with other people in the community if there's maybe like a group aspect, like As the business owner, as the person selling something, I actually feel more encouraged by those people because I know that they are really thinking about it. And then I can specifically address those questions and those issues and let them know, like, they can feel really good about what they're investing in.

Amber Hawley [00:16:55]:
Yes. And that's huge because that's managing expectations, right? And I, I too, I feel comforted by that. Like, I want to make sure I'm, I'm setting your expectation so that at the end of the day, I know I did my part. Now you might not show up and do yours, but I've managed my side of the street, right? And I think if people get upset by that, then I wouldn't want to work with them anyway, you know, but I see it come up. I see this a lot with women. Men do it too, but because I just see it a lot with women about this, like, well, I don't want to make them mad or I don't want to— I don't want to make them feel like I'm questioning their authority or I don't want to feel bad or make them think I don't value what they're offering. And I think it's about how you approach it. Now, if you put someone on blast in like a Facebook post or something, maybe not. But if you sincerely email someone and say, here are my questions, or say, can we get, you know, if they offer to get on like a sales call strategy or whatever you want to call it, discovery call, discovery call. Thank you. That was the word that was like, if they asked to get on a discovery call, that's the point of it is to answer those questions. And, you know, and I think if you get that vibe that you're irritating somebody, again, that's just information not to work with them. But I see so many women fearing that call or asking those questions for fear of looking like, oh, I'm annoying or I'm being a bitch or, you know, whatever. I just see it a lot. So I really want to encourage people to address those things because everybody ends up happier in the end.

Melissa Hall [00:18:27]:
Yes. Yeah. And get like really specific because I tend to be more of a big picture person, but with this stuff, like really get specific. Like, oh, I'm going to free up my time. Well, how, like how specifically is this program or this course going to help you do that? What skills is it going to give you or what tools is it going to teach you about? You know, what strategies will you learn? Like, What does that actually mean? Because I think it's easy to get caught up in these kind of ambiguous promises and not think about how it's really going to be applied to us.

Amber Hawley [00:19:01]:
Yes. To me, that's the kind of stuff that should be happening before you invest in something. And obviously this all matters, like it all matters what level of program we're talking about, right? Like you shouldn't expect a discovery call for a $100 product. right. Like, Yeah. You can get on with your bad self, but this, I obviously, I think we're talking about higher end investment. Commitments of ongoing programs or even working with somebody. And I think when, you know, a lot of coaches will have contracts or like, oh, maybe it's a 3-month or a 6-month or a year-long program. You know, you want to do discovery calls before you're making a long-term commitment. But if it's like a thing where you can do like a one-off, maybe that's the thing you realize, okay, what, how do I need to be prepared for that session? And you then, know, if it does not a good fit, it's not a good fit. But I think what we're talking about here is more of those longer programs or more extensive programs.

Melissa Hall [00:19:53]:
Yes. And this is where, side note, having your biz bestie or your business support system can be super helpful because before you make some big investment, you should talk with them and you should be able to explain to them why this would be helpful. Like, what is the ROI you're expecting to see, how it fulfills that need in your business, and be prepared on the flip side to ask those questions.

Amber Hawley [00:20:19]:
Yes, I think that is so valuable to have. And I would say I would do that with your biz bestie more so, unless, you know, you know that that person says yes to everything. No, but I think of that instead of like my husband. And there were times where I passed things by him, but I also realized like he is somebody who, when it comes to money, and one, he doesn't have the business knowledge. So that doesn't make sense. But it's also this thing of you want to make sure the person you're asking— and so I used my husband because he stood out in my mind, but it's anybody who's in your support network who's somebody who's really scarcity-based or really fearful about investing money. That's not the person to ask, right? Because they don't get— they might not see what that value is. But if you have a really good solid biz bestie who who has an understanding of when you say what that ROI is, they're going to get it and they're going to understand the value of that. That's why it's so helpful.

Melissa Hall [00:21:19]:
Yeah. And I think, I mean, regardless of who you talk to, I think it is a lot easier. I know for myself, if I think about having to prepare myself, like to have that conversation, then it's like, oh, okay. I'm, it's a lot easier for me to solidify in my mind whether or not it really is a worthy investment and, and what it's going to do for me.

Amber Hawley [00:21:37]:
Yes. So then you've invested in this program, this coach, this mastermind, this inner circle. I can't think of any other names for it. You invested in this thing. Then how do you know if it's working?

Melissa Hall [00:21:50]:
Well, you just keep doing it.

Amber Hawley [00:21:55]:
No.

Melissa Hall [00:21:57]:
Well, you should have your— already have your idea of how— of what results you want to see, right? So then you can talk with the person. Like a lot of times in programs like this, they will have a way of tracking that. So maybe there's something you Maybe you're tracking every week, maybe it's something every month, but definitely do that in whatever capacity makes sense, I think. Like have something that you are specifically looking at so you can see that progress over time because it's also encouraging for you. 'Cause I know like I talk about this with therapy, how a lot of times some of these ambiguous things over time, it can be very difficult to realize that you've made progress after a couple of months.

Amber Hawley [00:22:34]:
Absolutely.

Melissa Hall [00:22:35]:
But when you kind of go back and look at your data, then you're able to see that progress even though you may not be feeling it in the moment.

Amber Hawley [00:22:42]:
Yeah. And I think that's a good point because there are— I have having invested, I'm thinking about like kind of the programs I've been in where it's like a small group, kind of like a mastermind, kind of like group coaching, but a little different. And you know, those kinds of things where you're working on stuff and you're checking in and people get to know each other and each other's businesses. And I've seen people where they're like, oh, well, this is the only thing that's happened. And you know, that's easy, I could have done it, but it's like, but you didn't. You didn't do it until now. So to try to not give any credit to the program or the structure that you're going in, I've seen people do that and I understand it because some of the stuff that they're giving, they're giving you the support and structure to achieve these things, not because you are incapable of doing them without them, because you are, but there's something what's keeping you from doing that? And even if it's just sheerly having a little bit of structure where you're tracking stuff, you know, then it's like, well, that was enough of a catalyst and enough of a support to do that. And, and, you know, you achieve those goals. I think that's the important thing. Are you achieving the goals you're setting out for? So I do agree that I think people underestimate that or they don't notice like, hey, this is significantly different and you got to have that conversation. And that's why, you know, as the hopefully the coach or the program is somehow eliciting that information so that they can give you that feedback. The other part of it though is what happens when it's not being met?

Melissa Hall [00:24:09]:
Yeah, because that does happen. I've had that experience.

Amber Hawley [00:24:14]:
Yeah, we both have. And I think this is another thing I see happen a lot with female entrepreneurs. It's this confrontation piece again where it's like, I remember talking to other people in this other program I was in and them actually saying like, oh, this isn't what I was expecting. All these things were promised. It's not happening. And I said, well, I think you should talk to them about that because I agree with you. Those things were, they were expectations set as part of this program. You should have a discussion. And she was like, no, I'll just, I just, I need to let it go. And we were only halfway through the program. Like there was still so much time. To make all that stuff happen, and she was unwilling to have that uncomfortable conversation.

Melissa Hall [00:24:57]:
Yeah, it is uncomfortable, but it's one of those things that I think is necessary because I've, I've done that, had the uncomfortable conversation, and then it made the other person step up their game for a little bit. So I, I did start getting more, and then it also lets you know, like, maybe that's just time to I don't want to say quit, but quit, you know, stop investing in something that is not giving you a return. That's what I'll say.

Amber Hawley [00:25:27]:
Yeah. And I think it depends on what are the terms that you agreed to, right? Because I know I've gotten into programs. Well, I'll use one example, even though this wasn't, it wasn't necessarily business related, but remember when I hired that healer lady?

Melissa Hall [00:25:38]:
Yeah.

Amber Hawley [00:25:39]:
Because I had her, I had hurt my back. Honestly, I just should have friggin had a Reiki friggin massage. That's what I should have had. Instead, I ended up doing this huge program because there was all these promises and I was like, what if, what if this could be the thing that changes everything? And so, but I made a commitment. It was an expensive program and I think it was like 6 or 8 sessions. I think it was 8, but it was like $2,300. And the second session she said some stuff to me that I found so offensive. I knew I could never work with her again. And I was like, well, I signed a contract, so whatever. And maybe that could have been, but honestly, I think I should have— that's where I should have given her the feedback. I knew, I was like, there's no point in using the remaining sessions because I totally do not value her opinion at this point. I think she's insane and I absolutely will not do that. But I do think I maybe should have pushed back a little bit about getting some of my money back. And if it didn't happen, it didn't happen because that— I guess I'm in that quandary of as a business owner, I signed a contract. But I also feel like, come on, like I can't realistically, I can't work with you because you're horrible.

Melissa Hall [00:26:50]:
But ideally, yeah, you would, you would give the feedback, right? And then you'd never know. Maybe they would say, maybe she would say, oh, well, that makes sense. You know, let me cut it in half or give you whatever return, or maybe we can work something else out. You never know.

Amber Hawley [00:27:04]:
Right. She might've had an alternative solution that I just couldn't see. And maybe it was something else, I don't know. And again, yes, I agree with you, I should have had that conversation. That one, I just like, whatever. Although it still chaps me a little bit, like I'm like, well, and we.

Melissa Hall [00:27:18]:
All have stuff like that, right? Where— and sometimes it's like you look back and you realize, oh, I never should have signed up for that. And it's kind of like, well, that's my bad, like I should have known about that. And other times it's no, that it really— it is not meeting expectations, basically. Yes. Right. And, and that's when you can actually Have the conversation. And this is where I think having those first two things is critical ahead of time, because if you know exactly what you were promised and exactly what you expect to see, and then you're not seeing it, it doesn't have to be an emotional conversation because you can just very clearly outline, hey, this is what was promised and this is the result I'm getting. And so there's a difference. And so you're just asking them like, What do we do about this?

Amber Hawley [00:28:05]:
Yes. And that's where, when it comes to, because like that was obviously a non-business example, but when it's come to business stuff where that's happened and it was so disparate, I've had those conversations and it was, and they came from a place of kindness, but of like, hey, look, this, none of this was met. And it's very clear. It's very concrete. It's not emotional. And so I do feel like, and I have had that where people have cut it in half or, or, you know, or like I, exited the program or whatnot. And so I think that that is an important conversation to have. And then sometimes it's like, okay, like you said, you gave feedback, they step it up, and then it's like, okay, and then how can I make this work? How can I get what I'm needing, or how can I get the value of the remaining of this program? And sometimes it is about changing your approach or, or adjusting your expectations of what you're going to get out of the program. Right, right.

Melissa Hall [00:28:58]:
Especially if maybe you go into it and then you're like, oh wait, not— you recognize that it wasn't that there was false information, it was just maybe that you were misinterpreting something or didn't realize something, which totally happens to the best of us. So, but I think that's where having the conversation and just keeping it based in what was promised and what you're hoping to see and why you're, I guess, The key here is really to just kind of be curious, you know, about like why you're not getting whatever results or how they can help you better to get those results and think of it from that instead of thinking like, you owe me.

Amber Hawley [00:29:37]:
Yes, yes, absolutely. It needs to come from a place of wondering or like genuinely like, okay, yeah, I don't know whose side this was on, but obviously these expectations aren't met. 'Cause I do think you have to assess, like look at the program. Are they delivering on what they promised? Yes. But I was expecting more. Well, then that's my problem. And so adjust your expectations, right? And and then, then still try to get the most out of what is actually being offered. Or did they make promises they're not actually delivering on? That's different. And so I think those are two different things. And so being, getting caught up in like, well, I just wanted this, you know, one-stop shop fix-all to all my life's problems. Like, well, that's maybe not realistic. And so you need to figure it out. And then, Even if life gets in the way and you find yourself, like I'm in a program now and then in January we decided, oh hey, we're moving across the country. And so we started the process of like hiring a realtor and then going through that whole like having to purge and move out and have work done on the house. And then the showing, everything, the whole process and we're sold and we're all done now. But that took a lot longer than I expected. And I'm in this really, expensive program where there's a lot of, there's touchpoints throughout the week. I wasn't able to be available because everything was about home life. It had to be, it was home life, clients, employees, that was it. And so, but what I did is there were certain calls I made sure even if it was random as hell, I made sure to show up and at least get some kind of feedback on something. And it always ended up being pretty valuable, like really valuable. But I made sure like, hey, I might not be in the space to deal with this right now, This is all I have prepared for you to give me feedback on. So even if I only could prepare 15 minutes or 30 minutes before the call, I would. So that way I could still get something out of it. And I think that's the other thing of like life happens. How can you still make it work for you so you're getting value out of things?

Melissa Hall [00:31:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. So even if it's adjusting your own expectations and kind of reformulating a plan.

Amber Hawley [00:31:46]:
I think we've gone over today kind of what's the pre-work you need to do when thinking about investing into a high-end program or coaching or mastermind. What are the steps you should go through when making that decision? Ideally, you would make the decision feeling really good about it, not walking in going, "Oh, I have buyer's remorse," or something. You're feeling all in when you go in. I think that's the best way to enter into something because you do get the most momentum and results and there's an energy there. But then there's the reality side of things where you have to look at it and assess the ROI and kind of look at those measures. And have difficult conversations because it can, in business, it can open up so many opportunities for you. But if you just sit and say, oh, like I have no choice and feel powerless, that's, I mean, it's not going to be good. But I think there are a lot of great programs out there, coaching and masterminds and whatnot that do offer so much value for people in their business.

Melissa Hall [00:32:44]:
100%. And if you are interested in a high-end mastermind costing $10,000 a month, then you can head over to our website where we have our new program. No, I'm just kidding.

Amber Hawley [00:32:56]:
Just kidding. thinking I was just about how— We don't have a mastermind, but that was a good one.

Melissa Hall [00:33:02]:
I was just thinking about how usually this is where the pitch comes in.

Amber Hawley [00:33:05]:
I know, I know. It would be so good. We totally don't, but we would still love for you to head on over to our website and just sign up for our free newsletter because we would love to send you information about all the cool things we're doing or when we're having speaking engagements, but also because I think we have some extra free stuff where we want want to, we to be supporting you in creating your business support system and making good decisions so that you feel more joy as a business owner, because that is ultimately our goal. No $10,000 program here, but you can head on over and get that free support. And we hope you found value in this, and we would love to hear from you, but after you sign up and give us your email.