How Your Money Archetypes Impact Your Mindset With Denise Duffield-Thomas

00:00:25 - Maelisa Hall
Welcome to season four of the My Biz Bestie podcast. We have an Epic beginning to Season 4 for you this year. I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:35 - Amber Hawley
I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:36 - Maelisa Hall
And today, we are super excited to bring to you one of our biz heroes, Denise Duffield-Thomas. Welcome, Denise.

00:00:45 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Thank you so much, Melissa and Amber. I'm so excited to be here. And I love the name business besties or biz besties because... I honestly think that's been one of the most important things for me having these besties in my success in business because it's scary.
It's scary being in business some days, right?

00:01:04 - Amber Hawley
Yes.

00:01:05 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. And it's such a rollercoaster.

00:01:07 - Amber Hawley
And that's the thing. I think we find so much value in the business support system, but especially that biz bestie or the inner circle, as we call it. Having those few people because it is a rollercoaster of emotions and Just having those people who build you up and support you, it's hugely important.

00:01:24 - Maelisa Hall
I agree. Denise, for those people who may not know you, which... Shame on them if they don't because we've talked about you like a million times. And you're part of our origin story. But if they don't, would you give them a brief introduction to who you are and what you do?

00:01:41 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Absolutely. So I call myself a money mindset mentor. which is a totally made-up term. I am not a coach anymore. I don't do one-to-one coaching. I'm more of a teacher, but I also like to think of myself as just a friend, really, like a business friend.
Someone who will help you understand your relationship with money. Someone who will help you stop the freakouts about money. So you can actually profit from your skills and talents and actually make money in your business, not just have a hobby. So my books are...
Lucky Bitch, all about manifesting, Get Rich, Lucky Bitch, all about money. And my newest book is coming out in February and it's called Chillpreneur and it's all about doing business. in the easiest way possible for you and your personality.

00:02:30 - Amber Hawley
We love that. I'm so excited for that book to come out.

00:02:33 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
I know, I know. Me too. It's an interesting one because my first two books were self-published and I'm a very spontaneous person and so is Mark where we just get shit done really, really quickly. And Chillpreneur is coming out with Hay House and it's my first traditionally published book from start to finish.
And it's like, oh my god, it's like a two-year process. I started writing it more than two and a half years ago. And it's like, oh, it's finally coming out. Great.

00:03:06 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, that's what I've heard from a few people is like, by the time the book comes out, you're kind of over it.

00:03:10 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
I'm not. And I think the reason why is because... I knew that I was starting to enter into the lessons of the book myself. So it's not like I wrote it and didn't live through the lessons, but I was writing it thinking, wow, this is also how I would like to live my life.
So it's actually kind of, it's caught up with where I'm truly at. It's a very interesting process. So I feel like, oh, now it's time for me to talk about this for the next year. I don't feel like I'm over it, thank God. And it's really weird because my first couple of books and Get Rich Lucky Bitch that you guys have talked about, we republished that with Hay House with new content and fresh examples and stuff like that.
And so that book's having a renaissance.

And I'm like, wow, I wrote that in 2012. Yeah. And people are just discovering it now. And it's just only gone into bookshops in this last year. And so that's having a bit of a wave and a moment. And that feels weird too. Yeah.

00:04:13 - Amber Hawley
So for Chillpreneur, can you give an overview of the premise of what approach that talks about?

00:04:20 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes. So for me, I think when I had kids, I realized that I couldn't do business like I used to do business, which was kind of like a man... A childless man is how I kind of started my business, which was, I guess, hustling all the time, working really long hours.
And when I had my kids, I realized I couldn't work like that anymore. And then when I had two kids, I realized I didn't want to work like that anymore. And when I had my third kid, I was like, yeah, this really doesn't work anymore at all. People have always said to me, oh, Denise, you make things look so easy.
You're so relaxed all the time. And I'm not. But I think... The thing is, I'm incredibly lazy. So I've always found the shortcut in business and in life. And of course, that's just my...

I'm human design. I'm one of those manifesting people who I just do things and then I just want to tell people how I did them. So I found a way that business works for me and my family. This book isn't about saying, follow me. This book is about finding your path of least resistance and going on an exploration of...
your strengths and weaknesses and what you like to do and the kind of people you like to work with. And I'm really seeing a trend at the moment of people decluttering parts of their business that don't work. And that's what the book is about as well.
It's just find the essence of what works for you. It doesn't have to be a big business. It can be a small business. But it has to work for you and your personality. Find the path of least resistance.

00:05:51 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, I love that. And I've always loved that your message... is a lot of that. And I've heard you say that multiple times that you're a lazy person, which I think is probably not true, but...

00:06:02 - Amber Hawley
It's also my favorite thing because it gives me permission to be lazy. And I love that.

00:06:07 - Maelisa Hall
But I love that it is about like, you can make lots of money, you can enjoy making money. And it doesn't have to be about like, you don't have to redo everything every time you run a program and you don't have to work super hard and that you can leverage your income.
And if you think about it, you can do that. But I also love that you're emphasizing like, how does it work for you? And I think you're always talking about that when you're talking about money mindset and up leveling and all of that. It's not about like, oh, everyone needs to want to live in a mansion.
It's about how does all of this work for you and for your personality and your lifestyle? And that it's also that it's such an ongoing process.

00:06:44 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Oh, it really is. Because I think your definition of a first class life changes over time. I know mine's very different to 10 years ago, 5 years ago. Even 2 years ago, really, I think it's shifted. And you have to really honor that. And you have to honor that in your business.
People that you liked working with 2 years ago, maybe you no longer want to work with them. I also talk a lot in the book about graduating from your apprenticeship. I almost said chill-prenticeship. But there's times in your life where you are an apprentice.
But some people stay there way too long because they're waiting for someone else to graduate them. And you have to decide that you're ready to go to the next level in business. And that might mean that you don't serve everybody all the time. And sometimes you do leave clients behind, not in just like making money or trampling over people, but in honoring who you really are and focusing on how you can help some people, not everyone.

And I think the right time to have this discussion with KonMari, Marie Kondo's new Netflix series about, does it spark joy? Well, lots of people are doing business in a way that does not spark joy for them.

00:08:00 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And I think this, well, this speaks to me on so many levels because one, I have three children under nine as well. And you're right that Each one, the bandwidth gets smaller. So it's really about being more deliberate with your time and energy and what you're doing.
And we're about to make a big shift as well. And I have a couple of businesses in my brick and mortar. And so I think for a lot of people, it's like getting to that point of, okay, it's been too much of a rat race. And now I need to check in with myself and figure out, okay, what does this next stage look like?
So I think it's going to speak... to so many people who are feeling kind of burnt out or overwhelmed and just kind of overloaded with everything.

00:08:42 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And you can do that and still be successful. And you can do that and admit that there are different phases. And I made a big change in my business last year and I'm planning to make big changes this year. And it's all about that. Moving on to different things and having to kind of clutter out what might be taking up space, even if it's just mental space, that's keeping me from moving on.

00:09:04 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Oh, absolutely. The mental space is a big one that I don't think people really appreciate. And the energetic space is huge. And it's like running a computer with way too many programs on it. And I actually saw a lot of people quit their businesses last year, but not in a way of feeling like they were a failure, but just saying, I'm complete with this part of my business.
And some very successful, very high-profile entrepreneurs that went, you might be surprised, but I'm closing down this part of my business. Yes, it makes money, but it just I'm done. And there's so much power in that. It feels very zen. And it just feels very, I guess, the conscious uncoupling of the business world.

00:09:44 - Amber Hawley
That I'm going to use. I love that. As a couples therapist, I'm totally going to use that. So in your book, do you go through the money archetypes and talk about that and how that's how you find out how to approach things? Is that Something you, well, I, I do.

00:10:06 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
I actually talk about as many you know, to go and do any personality test, because I think you can learn something from almost any personality test. And I talk in the book about how, even like the Five Love Languages, has taught me about my business. So I think you can glean anything from that.
I mentioned the archetypes, so I'm certified in the archetypes, that's not my. original work. So I would love to write a whole book about money archetypes. And I've actually just introduced Kendall Summerhawk to Hey Health. Hopefully, they'll make a whole book out of it because it's amazing work.
Like love languages. I know that, for example, words of affirmation are one of my lowest ones. Gifts, actually. I always get zero in gifts. I'm like, yeah. So how does that help me in my business? Well, people were sending me presents all the time. in the post.
And like every week I would get mugs and books and t-shirts and, and most people would think, Oh my God, that's amazing.

And I was thinking, I am such a bitch that I feel so ungrateful that people are sending me stuff. And my mom would be like, well, I hope you sent the thing, you know? And I was like, no, because I feel paralyzed by all this stuff that I did not ask for.
So even just knowing that that was such a low value for me, in my personality meant that I could put boundaries around that. So when people say to me, hey, can I have your address? Can I send you something? I'll send them this article that's like, gifts are my lowest love language and they stress me out.
I don't want to have more stuff in my life. So verbally, your thanks are more than enough and please don't send me stuff. So that's just one example how you can take one personality test and go, okay, now that I know this about myself, What do I need to shift and change in my business to really honor who I really am?

And it's just a process of elimination. Just little refinements here and there. Or you can go from the other way without even knowing anything about yourself and just say, what feels good? What feels bad? And you pick one thing that feels bad and you try and eliminate it or outsource it or delegate it.
I always say eliminate first, then automate, then delegate. But that's because... people for me are very low value. I'm like, people? Ew! So eliminate first, automate, then I delegate.

00:12:23 - Amber Hawley
That's awesome. And I think it's a good reframe for people. Like you said that if you feel bad, like I'm being ungrateful for receiving all of these gifts, but you realize because it's so against your value. And I think about what you talked about Kamari.
I think That makes me think of the minimalism movement that I really love. That would be stressful as well. It's like, I don't want these random things that I'm not choosing and that are coming into my life intentionally. I would much rather have your feedback.
And so it's a nice way of looking at something where I think normally we would just really judge ourselves for it.

00:12:56 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Oh, absolutely. But even that... So another one for me for... So my second lowest is words of affirmation. So I decided really early on to say to my team... don't send me gushing praise emails because it doesn't feel good for me. But don't send me the hate emails either, right?
But it's like, I just don't need to know. It's not important to me. But the weakness that I discovered around that is that I wouldn't ask people for testimonials. So we have to then say, okay, well, because I don't care about hearing feedback, good or bad, what do we put into the business to make sure that we're still getting testimonials?
So we automated that in our process. So they come in even though for me, it's not important. So it's looking at all of these bits of information. It's like a giant puzzle and you're not going to get it perfectly at the start.

But over time, you'll start to evolve and shift the way you do your business each time in line with who you really are. The problem with all of that, and this is the thing that everyone struggles with, is that we're not used to having those discussions.
A lot of us are not used to designing things for us because it feels greedy. We've been told from a young age, you get what you get and you don't get upset. And it's hard to get out of that mindset of like, oh no, I just have to be given the clients that come to me.
I just have to do business in the way that everyone else is doing it because who am I to make it convenient for me? I should be doing it convenient for everyone else. It's like, that doesn't work in the long term.

00:14:30 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And I love... You're even talking about management style. Telling your team, oh, this isn't meaningful for me. Don't send me gushy emails because it's not really a big thing for me. It impacts everything that relates to your business and how you work, especially if you work with people, which we're all working with people in some capacity.
But if you're doing coaching or therapy like we've done or have a service-based business... where you're interacting with people, I think it's so important to know this is why we love personality tests. We're obsessed, you know, because the more you know about yourself, like the more you realize, oh, okay, I understand why I'm getting triggered in this reaction or having this reaction or why I am avoiding this certain task or why, you know, this person really drives me nuts.

00:15:24 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes, exactly. And I love, like, I love Myers-Briggs. I love Colby and, I think that's a brilliant one. I love the sacred money archetypes. I found out in Colby that I'm a quick start, very high quick start. No, I'm shocked. Yeah, no, I'm shocked. But that means I can be very impulsive.
So I had to put things into place in my business as well that I don't just go, Oh, cool. That sounds like a good idea. Let's do it. Because sometimes I regret it because I'm just too impulsive. So I've had to put little things in place where I'm like, Huh, let me sleep on that and I'll get back to you.
And that was the hardest thing for me, but that saved me. It saved me a lot of problems.

00:16:03 - Amber Hawley
Yeah.

00:16:04 - Maelisa Hall
It's so funny. You're bringing up all these different... personality tests that we haven't even talked about yet. And we want to keep talking about all of these on the podcast. So I'm like, oh, dang, we need to do a Love Languages episode. We need to do a Colby episode because we haven't done that one yet.

00:16:19 - Amber Hawley
We've done Myers-Briggs big time. That one's been our most popular episode. And then Enneagram. But yeah, I've done on my Couples Fix podcast, the 5 Love Languages because I love that. I think it's so helpful to... It's such a simple way for people to look at how am I being filled up?
We can have you come back and you can talk about all of the personality tests.

00:16:40 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
I would love it. So my husband and I work together in the business and we actually even had a breakthrough last week based on StrengthsFinder. So I'm a futurist. I love talking about the future. And he's not. He's like one of those ones that are... like complete tasks.
I don't even know, achiever. He's one of those ones that actually gets stuff done. And so we had all these frustrating conversations because I'd go, oh my God, how amazing is it going to be when we do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he gets really stressed out because he thinks I'm adding to his to-do list.
And I'm not. I'm just starting to dream into the future like 5, 10 years down the track. But it stresses him out. And when he articulates his to-do list to me, I'm like, You're bursting my bubble. So we had a great conversation about that where we're like, Oh, this is why this is frustrating for us.

Okay, that's really cool.

00:17:32 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, that's huge. Because my husband and I have that similar thing where we had to have a discussion around... I have to preface it now with... okay, I'm just telling you something I'm excited about and I'm dreaming here, but I do not expect this to happen in the next few days, weeks, or like, yeah, I had to like let go of the tasks or the to-dos of it and just listen to the fantasy of it.

00:17:55 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yeah. This is not creating an open loop for you.

00:18:00 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. Oh, yeah. See, and it gets me thinking. I'm like, oh, are you an N on the Myers-Briggs? And he's an S, I wonder.

00:18:06 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
You know, the Myers-Briggs one is one of those ones I can never remember what I am because it feels like it's too complicated. I'm like, there's too many things to remember in it. No, I cannot remember. But in money archetypes, which I know you guys want to talk about as well, I'm a ruler and...
maverick, romantic. So the ruler is the workaholic. The maverick is the impulsive risk taker. And then the romantic is the ease and flow, chill, and a bit lazy. So Mark is also a ruler. Then he's a maverick. Then he's a celebrity. So the celebrities actually need a lot of praise.
So he's not exactly where he is in the business at the moment. It's a temporary thing because he needs a lot more recognition that he currently gets my business because he's behind the scenes. So even that for ourselves, we're like, okay, this doesn't suit you 100% right now, but it will in the future.

So let's just chill for a little bit. So sometimes you know that it's not quite right for your personality, but it's like, cool, this is temporary and then I can shift and change it.

00:19:11 - Amber Hawley
I love that you guys had that conversation. I know we were very excited. We both took our quiz. I'm a ruler, nurturer, romantic.

00:19:20 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Oh, okay. So workaholic doesn't charge enough. What was the last one that you had? Romantic. Romantic, just wants things to be easy and sometimes just doesn't want to face reality. So the nurturer is a funny one because the nurturer is such a beautiful gift to the world.
Nurturers just want everyone to be happy. They want to take care of everyone. The real life lesson for nurturers is around boundaries and about asking, being okay to ask for money in return or anything in return. anything in return. So I love working with nurturers because I know that nurturers can change the world once they allow themselves to receive.

00:20:03 - Amber Hawley
And I had such a good aha on your webinar last Friday that I was on. And you said the thing about, if I charge or if I send the bill, I'm going to get in trouble. And for me, it was like... That felt like the nurturer part of my archetype coming up big time, where it's that thing where you feel bad, even though part of you thinks, No, I've got this licked.
I charge for what I'm worth and I know this. But then it still comes up. So I think it's such an important thing to keep exploring and going through.

00:20:33 - Maelisa Hall
Dude, that's so crazy because I am having an epiphany right now too. Because Amber and I usually get the same results on personality tests. Which is awesome.

00:20:43 - Amber Hawley
Maybe bad for business, actually.

00:20:45 - Maelisa Hall
It's great for us getting along. It's maybe not the best for us being partners in business all the time. Yeah. But for this one, we had different. And I was a connector, nurturer, alchemist. Oh. Yeah.

00:20:58 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yeah. Wow.

00:20:59 - Maelisa Hall
Because I feel like I don't have a lot of the issues that the nurture thing usually brings up. But then even right now, when you were talking, I realized... I get little notifications on my phone every time I make money. which I love and I'll show them to Amber.
But when I get one of those, sometimes if it's one of my higher price things, I'll think, Oh, I better wait to see if they're going to want a refund before I get excited about it. Even though I've had like two people in five years ask for a refund, like that's not that many, but I'll still think like, Ooh, no, let me, let me just wait to get excited.
Cause you know, I want to make sure I'm actually getting money.

00:21:36 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Definitely the nurturer has that guilt sometimes. the guilt attached to it. It's a very interesting combination, right? Because the connector, every archetype has a life lesson that is actually the hardest thing for you to learn, right? Of course. So the connector naturally brings people together, but the life lesson for the connector is getting over feeling bad about charging people for that because it feels like you never want to monetize your relationships, but that's your path to wealth.
in a way, right, is monetizing the connections that you can bring to people. And the thing too that I love about doing Sacred Money Archetypes and my course of it too is that it's not always about literal things. So sometimes connectors think, oh, I have to be what, like a matchmaker?

And it's like, no, sometimes it's about connecting people with ideas, connecting people with, you know, other businesses. Connectors can be great affiliate marketers. If they get over... getting paid to do something that comes so naturally to them. And the lesson is that it's not about exploiting people, but it's okay to get paid for who you really are.
Because of course, relationships are more important than money. There's no doubt about that for you. But it's like you're allowed to have both. You're allowed to profit from that skill that you have. The nurture we've already talked about. And then the alchemist is great because the alchemist is such a magical...
you know, like idea generating. And again, alchemists really struggle with the idea of being paid for ideas. And that's one of the biggest like mind blow things that I see people on the course is that they go, oh, I'm so terrible at, you know, putting things into action.

It's like, but that's not what you're here to do. You're here to spark things. You're here to like take different ideas and make something magical out of it. And so I always say to alchemists, Just put on your website an idea brainstorming session or a naming session or something because people need your magic that's so easy for you.
You think that you have to get paid to make things happen for people? You don't. You're the spark. You're not the completed finisher, if that makes sense.

00:23:52 - Amber Hawley
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Are you going to share your YouTube idea? Although then I don't know how you'd monetize that. I'm like, which one? The one where you get... Where we have a YouTube channel where you just give people ideas for businesses. Yeah.

00:24:06 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, yeah. I know. I'm like, I just want to give people... Dude, I just have so many ideas and I'm not going to follow through on all of them. Let's just list them all here and somebody take it.

00:24:15 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
That is the perfect alchemist business. That is the perfect alchemist business. So literally just put an ideas generating session on your website. And I've paid for this a million times, by the way. I've paid for... Hey, I need to come up with a new title for a program.
I'll contact an alchemist. And they have like a naming session. And all they have to do in that hour is sit and brainstorm with me. And then I go away and I have to action that. That is a thing. People pay for ideas.

00:24:47 - Maelisa Hall
That is genius. I know. I know. Man, knowledge bombs. Boom. Thank you.

00:24:54 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
But see how that's the thing that's really obvious. And... And we really discount the obvious because we think, nobody would pay me for that. Everyone knows how to do this thing. All that information is out there for free. It's not. People are paying for gaps that they do not have.
And it's okay to charge for something that comes so easily to you. And I guess that's really the lesson of the book. It's okay for things to be easy and obvious.

00:25:22 - Maelisa Hall
And really, everyone benefits when we're all doing that, right? Yeah. when everyone is working in their zone of genius and doing what is easiest for them, then we all win.

00:25:31 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Absolutely. And you know, anything that you think is like super boring, there's someone out there who loves doing that as well. You know, like on the other side of it, sometimes entrepreneurs feel guilty about outsourcing things because they're like, Oh, accounting, who would want to do this shitty job?
And accountants are like, we do. And we love it.

00:25:52 - Amber Hawley
That's, We got over real quick. We're like, yeah, no, we're not doing that.

00:25:58 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
I remember saying to my bookkeeper, I'm like, I'm so behind in my things. How about I just get it like a perfect person, then I'll send it to you. And she's like, Denise, you can send me a shoebox full of crumpled up receipts and it will be like a Christmas present.
And I was like, what? You're afraid. And she's like, no, this is just what I love. And I'm like, yes, of course. We can't all do the same thing. If the world was just made up of alchemists, There would be no bridges. There would be no skyscrapers because we all need different personalities in life to make things happen.
But we feel like we have to be everything to everyone. And that just doesn't work.

00:26:34 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Oh, I can't wait to read this. And by the time this interview goes live, it's going to be March 5th. So your book will already be out. We'll have read it already. front to back, done it all. We're so excited. But you mentioned if people wanted to find out more about their archetypes that you have a course that you offer.

00:26:53 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes. So you can take the quiz for free. That's denisedt.com slash quiz. And then I have 2 options for courses. There's a home study version and then there's a live version starting in April. And it's an amazing course. I can say that because I'm certified in it.
It's It's so brilliant because there is an amazing cost. But what I've taken, I've been certified in the method, but then I've taken it Denise way and I've gone, okay, well, and this isn't in the certification, like, okay, what passive income would work for each of the archetypes?
What kind of business models would work? What kind of marketing would work? What kind of team structure would work for each of the archetypes? And so there's a lot of exercises like that, where you really get really practical in your business and try and design everything in line with your archetype.

So it's super fun. But the other thing is, so for the month of March, I've got a free online book club for anyone who reads Chillpreneur too. Oh, perfect timing. I know. So all the links for that are at chillpreneur.com where you can go... And if you've already pre-ordered from somewhere else, it's no problem.
You just still go to chillpreneur.com. You can put in where you ordered and you can get the link to come and join online book club. And I'm doing two live webinars in March. Yeah. To answer people's questions about chillpreneur. So we can spread the chill vibe around everyone's businesses.

00:28:20 - Amber Hawley
I like that.

00:28:21 - Maelisa Hall
I know. I love it. And I love how it's all kind of full circle. It's all personality related and making things easy and making things based on what works for you because easy is going to be different for every woman.

00:28:33 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Exactly. That's exactly the point of the book. And I think that's why for the last couple of years, I haven't ventured into any type of business coaching because I realized... I was like, it depends. People would ask me, what should I do about this? And I'm like, I don't know.
Tell me more about you. And now that I've got the archetypes there, it's like, well, what's your archetype? Oh, okay, cool. Now I understand what your challenges are. Now I understand where you could go. But that's why I think the last couple of years, people have really struggled in business because people look at my business and they go, oh, well, I'll just copy your business.
And it's like, but we're different. You might hate my business and it works perfectly for me, but it might not work for you.

00:29:16 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and I could see... I think that the part where you give ideas about structure could be so valuable because it sparks... I think sometimes people get so focused in that person they're following or the people in their life are telling them, no, this is the way.
And then being able to say like, oh, wait, there's this possibility and I could structure it like that and not feel bad about it, to feel really empowered by that. I think that's going to be so valuable. I'm excited to hear what it tells us to do.

00:29:45 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yeah. Well, I think of my first year in business and I remember I had a business coach and she said, okay, you need to go. She gave me an assignment. You need to go to every networking event within a three hour radius of your house. And I was like, oh my God, like as an introvert, I was like, this sounds horrible.
And I said, but I don't want to do any networking. She goes, how are you going to find clients? And I'm like, Online. And she's like, Well, I don't think that works. Okay. We've all been there where we've taken advice from someone, thinking that they know better than we do and they don't.
You know best. But you have to do the exploration first, because otherwise you don't know and also you don't know. But also there's a lot of conditioning to undo, especially as women. We've been taught just to go along and be nice to everyone and.

Our boundaries can really suck. So there's some conditioning around that. And I think it's just permission. It's okay for it to work for me first, because then I can show up and really serve the people who are meant to be served.

00:30:53 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, I think that's such a great message. I'm very excited. I think it is a really needed thing, like you said, especially for women with boundaries. Even if you've really done some work and you get to a certain point, it's one of those things that we're always working on and the boundary challenges show up in different ways.
So I think it's something to continue to grow and be thoughtful about. So... I'm very excited for that. I agree. Melissa and I would never have met. I don't think... I mean, honestly, we never would have met. I mean, maybe eventually at something. But so we kind of owe everything to you for writing that book and bringing us together.
So we'll talk to you all night.

00:31:32 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Well, that makes me feel really good. And I think the same thing for me with Marie Forleo. She was such a great mentor for me. And when I joined her B school, I was like, oh, there are other people... like me, who want to do business. This is so cool.
And I think people listening, you can be the catalyst for other people with your business. And it's really nice to hear that. I'm like, oh, that's so good that people have met because of my work. And I think it's really funny because people send me messages about my book all the time.
And they're like, I was reading your book. And then this money manifested and thank you so much. And I'm like, I love getting credit for that. It's got nothing to do with me. The other thing I want to share with you, this is really fun. We just finished a launch and people in my group are like, thank you so much for your cause.
And I was really holding back on saying, I wanted to say to them, well, thank you for your money.

And then I just thought, no, I'm going to say that. Like, thank you for your money. So thank you for buying my book guys.

00:32:33 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. And joining the course this too. Thank you. But yeah, I mean, I, I know, I remember you said that on some call last week and I was like, yeah, it's so true. Like sometimes you do just want to be like, Hey, like, thanks for making it easy for me to go out to dinner last night.
You know?

00:32:51 - Amber Hawley
I know. And you feel that that's might be my nurturer coming up because you feel bad about that. You know, it's like one of those things where you're like, Oh, but if you say that, then they're going to question, did you show up for me because you heard about me or because you wanted just the money?
And I think especially women's minds go to that, which really sucks, because, you know, it's like, no, I mean, I can care and I can enjoy being paid.

00:33:19 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Totally, totally. Well, if we've got a little bit more time, do you want to talk about some of the other archetypes as well?

00:33:26 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. Absolutely. We haven't mentioned.

00:33:28 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Okay. I'll write them down just so I can make sure I get everyone because sometimes I forget the connector and the connectors take that super personally.

00:33:39 - Maelisa Hall
As you can imagine. Well, we already went through that one since that's by far my highest.

00:33:44 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
So, accumulators. Accumulators are the ones who are really good with money. So, these are the people who can be very frugal, never in debt, And what's really interesting when you know about not only your own archetypes, but your clients' archetypes, you know what starts to trigger them.
So for accumulators, they very rarely buy a program that doesn't have a money-back guarantee because they're constantly second-guessing every purchase that they make. And they're also the archetype that has buyer's remorse pretty quickly. Right. Romantics, we've forgotten that we bought something.
Celebrities can't remember that. They don't know where their login details are. They even ask for a refund. But accumulators are the ones who are like, did they give us everything on the sales page? And if not, well, I'm going to ask for my money back and I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

Or they have buyer's remorse and they ask for a refund. So that's super important to know things like that. If you're an accumulator, because you can have... You just go, oh, no, this is just my accumulator kicking in. I really need to do this program.
Great. Or if you are marketing to accumulators, for example. So, yeah, accumulators don't understand why people are in debt at all. You might have some of these people in your life, can be very frugal, but can also be very organized and systematized around things.
So accumulators have a lot of gifts that often they feel like they're shamed for, if that makes sense.

00:35:12 - Amber Hawley
Mm-hmm.

00:35:13 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
We didn't really talk about the Mavericks too much, but the Mavericks are the risk takers, sometimes the rebels. So actually, if you're marketing to Mavericks, for example, having testimonials can sometimes have the opposite effect for Mavericks because they're like, well, if everyone else is doing this program, I'm not going to do it.
It starts to kick in their rebellious nature. They're just like, oh, you can't tell me what to do. I'm not going to join your program just because everyone else is. If it's popular, it's not for me. So that can be really interesting. But on the other hand, Mavericks can be great entrepreneurs because they can be very risk-taking and bold.
They're the kind of entrepreneurs that they don't think about things too quickly. They're just like fire, fire, fire without even aiming, without being ready, which can be good and bad, right?

The connectors, as I mentioned, that Melissa is, these are the people who love... They love bringing people together. They love making connections, like physical connections with people, but also they love seeing people make ahas, create ahas, creating connections for people.
As I said, really struggle with monetizing that skill. They feel incredibly guilty about it because they feel like to monetize their relationships would be to sully them, right? So that's an interesting one to overcome. Nurturers, as I said, the over givers, the big hearts, they just want everyone to be happy.
A lot of nurturers get stuck working in their day jobs because they can't make the leap to actually getting paid for what they do.

And often too, a lot of the nurturers are in nurturing professions. So I see a lot of nurturers who are working full time as nurses, for example, but they want to be like an astrologer. but they can't get paid for being an astrologer because they feel too guilty asking for money for it.
So they get, they're frustrated entrepreneurs very often. The alchemist, as I said, all about ideas that they feel like no one's going to pay them for ideas because it's so easy to create ideas. Why would someone pay for this? Alchemists can also be amazing manifestors and it can be just come so easily to them.
But sometimes alchemists manifest stuff instead of money. So they're like super magical and, And their friends are like, how did you pull that out of the bag? Because they're just manifesting last minute. And a really great thing for an alchemist is to get beyond the feast or famine and they use their magic for other things.

They use their magic to create an amazing life, not just to survive and to pull things out of their butt last minute. It's a big one for alchemists. The romantics love ease and flow. and beauty and they want things just to be nice and easy and chill. The problem is that sometimes romantics can be a little bit lazy and they don't want to face the reality of things.
It's like, you know, oh, I have to market. No, I just want to sit back and have people come to me, which can totally work if you put the systems in place. Mavericks can actually be the archetype that really embraces passive income and once they get over the guilt of it and once they get over the logistics of it, they're like, bring it on.
Passive income me. That's great.

00:38:32 - Amber Hawley
Do you think for romantics, and this is a self-serving question, do you think sometimes they struggle with their teams then? Because sometimes, most of the time, your team makes your life easier. But when you're having to deal with your team's stuff, their interpersonal stuff...
Like sometimes it's like, okay, I just want to chuck this all and be a solopreneur.

00:38:56 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Definitely. And actually, I think romantics do that a little bit. They just, they chuck things, they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Or, I mean, one thing that I did as a romantic early on, I would hire people and then say, just do what you want.
Just do it. Just don't bother me. Just you go and do it. And then they would never do it. They would never do the thing. And I'd be like, just paying people for weeks of them not doing anything for me.

00:39:18 - Amber Hawley
I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:39:20 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yeah, okay, great at all, ever. Yes, so romantics. When we can really embrace that passive income flow, you have to get over your romanticness at the start. To actually put those things into place, we can actually create really lean, beautiful businesses, very easy flow businesses.
Like with my assistant, I speak to my assistant like once a year now because things are just easy, we know how it works, we don't need to talk.

00:39:47 - Amber Hawley
Oh my gosh. That sounds magical.

00:39:50 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Now, the ruler is an interesting one. So the ruler is the empire builder. This is the part of you that's super ambitious, wants to create a big business, wants to just monetize everything. The life lesson for the ruler is about creating ease and flow, which is the exact thing that you'll resist.
Instead of creating ease and flow, you'll start a new business. just to make it hard for yourself. Instead of creating ease and flow, you'll create a new sales page for your thing every time instead of using the old one and making tweaks. Yes, rulers can often procrastinate.
So they have to justify working all night, pulling all-nighters, working really, really hard. And it's like a sickness that we all have, right? The thing that we're supposed to learn is the thing that we resist the most. So rulers always resist ease and flow, even though that is That is our life lesson is creating businesses that are win-win for people but without having to work all the time and not having to monetize everything, right?

It's like some things are allowed to be hobbies. They don't have to be your business as well, which makes rulers really great consultants, by the way, because you can see a monetization path for everything. It doesn't mean that has to be your business.
So you can, like the alchemist, you can give those ideas to other people. without having to do them yourself. Make sense? Yes. Yes. And then the last archetype is the celebrity. So the celebrity is a little bit similar to romantic in that way is that they love beauty and they love ease.
But the celebrity is the one that wants the spotlight on them. They love being a leader. They love being the center of attention. But most celebrities have stunted that part of themselves because they've been shamed for it. from a young age, and you might know people like this who are, they secretly want to be on stage, they want to be in the spotlight, they want to be a leader, but they've been told, you're too much, you're too loud, you shouldn't do this, you know, you're an attention hog or whatever it is, you're an attention seeker.

Whereas really, celebrities can teach so many women the power of self-worth and self-care, and loving yourself, and. And so when celebrities really, you know, overcome that and for them to be okay in the spotlight, that's when they not only shine themselves, they'll lift other people up around them.
The only downside to that for a lot of celebrities is that they're living the celebrity lifestyle on a box wine budget because they don't want to deal with the reality of money. Right. So often they can be very impulsive, they can overspend, they can be in a lot of debt and their lifestyle doesn't necessarily match up with their bank account.
And all of these archetypes, they have a shadow side for sure.

And it's not about not being who you truly are, but it's finding ways to really live in the strength of your archetype and not be in the unhealthy pendulum swing around your archetype. And that's why when we do SMA, We look at your top three because then you can bring in different skill sets from your different top archetypes to balance each other out.
And I also teach people how you can borrow energy from other archetypes temporarily to make sure that you're not getting in the unhealthy side of it.

00:43:19 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, I could see that being hugely beneficial with your biz bestie if they have different archetypes or your spouse, which... I think Amber and I both know which one my spouse is. Oh, you do tell. Accumulator, for sure.

00:43:37 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Oh, yes.

00:43:39 - Amber Hawley
Hardcore. He may only come up as accumulator for the first three. And actually... And then the rest would be something else. It'd be like maybe one, one, zero. Yeah, yeah.

00:43:55 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
You know what? I see that a lot where you have... a kind of an alchemist woman with like an accumulator man. And it's really interesting because they obviously trigger each other a lot, a lot, a lot. I see even accumulators and celebrities, right? Totally different viewpoints on spending money.
What I find really fascinating about this work and why I love it so, so much is because it's not just about who you are. It's really understanding who is around you, whether they're your client, your spouse, your business partner, whatever. who you want to hire in your business.
There's really empowering things around that when you really understand where they're coming from and what their triggers are.

00:44:37 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And obviously, just understanding that allows you to not be as triggered by things and allows you to communicate as opposed to just being triggered and upset and then just feeling like it's incompatible. Whereas it's really about just understanding each other.

00:44:52 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes. And it's about right fit. I find sometimes couples, especially they'll do things that are not the right fit. Like, so sometimes I'll see a couple and even though the accumulator should be looking after the bills, they feel like pissed about it. And so they're like trying to force like the alchemist to do the bills as like a way of showing love.
Like if you really love me, then you'll figure out this spreadsheet kind of thing. That's the unspoken agreement.

00:45:19 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. You don't know. Yeah, exactly.

00:45:22 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
No, it's okay for you to be the right fit and to appreciate what the other person brings.

00:45:29 - Amber Hawley
Absolutely.

00:45:31 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes. It's like, you know, you might have a connector in a relationship and it's like, They're the person who makes sure you have friends as a couple and that your kids have friends and that you see your relatives. And that, again, it's like unpaid labor, right?
But when you really appreciate that, you really see that that's gold that someone's bringing into a relationship that you might not be able to monetize in a relationship, but it's still gold to know that that's extremely valuable. together. So it has so many applications with your partner, with your business, with your marketing, how you set up your business.
And I think it's just been the greatest joy of my business in the last couple of years is to really appreciate that I'm a rule and maverick romantic. That's who I am. And I'm just going to set my business up so I can feel good.

I can win at those things and not beat myself up that I'm not good at the other stuff.

00:46:25 - Amber Hawley
Amazing. Thank you so much for going through all of that because I know that's going to be helpful for people to hear that and kind of start to get an idea of what they, you know, who they are. And again, it's that acceptance as opposed to, you know, fighting against that because you feel like you're supposed to be something else.
a quote that I say all the time is one of my favorite supervisors used to say, it's easier to ride a horse in the direction it's already going. And I tell people that all the time of like, go with your natural tendencies as much as possible so that you do make your life so much easier.
And instead of feeling bad that you're, that you're not, you know, that you aren't something. And so I think, yes, absolutely.

00:47:09 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yeah. And that's where, you know, like being a chillpreneur is not about living in Bali, working from a hammock, but it's, which lots of people do. I, that's not me. That's cool. But it is just about finding, and that's when you just become like, ah, this feels good.
Okay. Feels good.

00:47:26 - Maelisa Hall
So go out and get the book, people. Yes. And take the quiz.

00:47:30 - Amber Hawley
Yes.

00:47:30 - Maelisa Hall
Do all the things. Do all the things. Oh, thank you so much, Denise. Cause I think this was, This is what I love about pretty much all of your resources, no matter what I hear you talk about. It's always about self-reflecting and really digging into whatever part of your life and then finding some aha and how it can relate to your business or to your team or to your relationships.
It's an ongoing thing to do. And it doesn't... I think what I like about the way you present a lot of this stuff is that it is an ongoing thing, but it's not exhausting. It's just like, Oh, hey, I got another aha today. Awesome. Glad I did that work.

00:48:11 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Exactly. Yeah. Don't take it personally.

00:48:16 - Maelisa Hall
Yes. Well, thank you so, so much. Again, you want to give us the link if people do want to take the quiz to find out their money archetype and also where they should go if they want to check out the book.

00:48:27 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes. So the quiz is at denisedt.com slash quiz. And you will get your video of your top archetype for free. And then in the email, you'll see the list of your other archetypes. So you'll know based on what we've sort of spoken about. And then the book is available online.
Anyway, you buy books, Kindle, Audible, all that kind of stuff. But if you go to chillprinter.com, just put in your receipt number. You can put in anything. We can't check, by the way. No, I know. But it's like, go buy the book. Put in your details, your receipt details and you can join our online book club which is open for the month of March and there's some bonuses and all that kind of stuff.
But I can't wait to hear people's ahas about how they're shifting and changing their business because I just think the world is just going to be so much better when entrepreneurs are really just joyfully making money, doing the things that we're meant to do and more people quitting their jobs to finally be live their entrepreneurial dream is amazing too.

00:49:34 - Amber Hawley
Awesome. We're all for that. Thank you so, so much.

00:49:37 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Thank you.

00:49:38 - Amber Hawley
I was like, we forgot. I was going to ask you, what is your love language? Because I feel like if we keep saying nice things about you, it's going to turn you off.

00:49:45 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
What is my love language? Acts of service, I think. Oh, and quality time. But quality time for me is like Mark and I sitting on the couch, watching TV together, not talking. Nice. Because you're an introvert. Hardcore introvert. I'm like, and then bring me food, so it's like, quality time together, not talking, and then you bring me food, and that's my act of service.
Oh my gosh, I love it.

00:50:11 - Amber Hawley
I'm all of that, except I like the talking. So awesome.

00:50:17 - Maelisa Hall
Thank you so much ladies.

00:50:18 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yes bye.

00:50:19 - Amber Hawley
We'll see you next week in boot camp.

00:50:22 - Denise Duffield-Thomas
Yay. we'll see you in boot camp.

00:50:25 - Amber Hawley
Okay, bye, bye, bye.