Finding Your Unicorn: How to Hire the Right Person

00:00:24 - Amber Hawley
Welcome to season three of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:28 - Maelisa Hall
And I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:30 - Amber Hawley
And today we're going to talk about how to find your unicorn. In your business, that is.

00:00:37 - Maelisa Hall
Not your romantic unicorn.

00:00:40 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, I didn't even think of that. That is so funny. Just your magical beast that makes you happy. I don't know. That's what my mind went.

00:00:50 - Maelisa Hall
There's so many ways we could go to make this inappropriate from here. But it's funny. It did make me think right off the bat, though. I feel like that is more acceptable to have a lot of standards, like a high standard for your romantic partner. Like again, you can't be unrealistic, but like we don't do that as much with hiring people.
We just kind of like deal with it and expect, oh, I'll just hire someone and they'll work out. And if you've ever hired someone, that's not how it works. You know. Yes, you know.

00:01:20 - Amber Hawley
You know. It is, I would say, talking to so many people, I think hiring is the number one thing, the number one struggle for business owners, like hiring good people and retaining them.

00:01:32 - Maelisa Hall
Yes, absolutely. Like how to find them, how do you actually keep them, and do you keep them? And I know there's like a million directions we could go there, but we do want to offer some tips on how you can actually find that unicorn and potentially keep them with you.

00:01:47 - Amber Hawley
Yes, because I think it can be so transformative for a business when you find those right people, right? So I will say I have found a couple of unicorns in my business experience.

00:01:58 - Maelisa Hall
Like true unicorns, where there are people who just like are like internally motivated, are problem solving on your behalf, presenting things to you. Like you feel like you can trust them with confidential information.

00:02:11 - Amber Hawley
Care about the reputation of the company.

00:02:14 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. So... This is for all the Gen Xers out there who love movies. So what you do, the first step is you drink a bunch of margaritas and you write down all the characteristics of the person you want. And then there's going to be a lightning storm and it's going to happen.
Witches of Eastwick. that was a reference to riches.

00:02:34 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. I totally like, I was like, I have no freaking clue what movie this is referencing.

00:02:41 - Amber Hawley
Oh, I might be, it might be me and two other people. That movie is epic by the way. Share.

00:02:48 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, okay.

00:02:49 - Amber Hawley
Okay. Yeah. Susan Sarandon, Michelle Pfeiffer, share Jack Nicholson. I mean, hello, you cannot go wrong with that. So good. But anyway, other than that, I will say that the first step, though, they somewhat got right. You actually have to put it out there what you're actually looking for.

00:03:07 - Amber Hawley
So I think I've noticed this before in talking to other people and working with people is they're even afraid to like fully ask for what they're wanting and needing. right? So that writing that list of characteristics. And I think there's something to writing it down because it's like getting it in black and white, really getting it out of your head because then you can see like, okay, is there anything else I need to add to it?
But when you just hold it in your head, it's hard to have that bigger picture.

00:03:33 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, absolutely. And then it's hard to... I think you keep adding to it. Don't expect you're going to sit down and do this once and then... that's everything. You're going to interview someone and realize, hmm, they don't seem like a good fit. Why don't they seem like a good fit?
Oh, this is why. That's a characteristic I want to have. And then maybe you add to your list. But I think this is something where if you come from a corporate background, even if you have a lot of... I hired, I don't know, maybe two dozen people in my corporate career because we actually started up a program and it grew exponentially.
So we hired a ton of people. But I know those unsaid things that happen in an interview that make you think, oh, this is a good fit or not a good fit. But those are not things when you have a corporate job that you put on the actual job description, right?
Like you don't put a lot of those things out there because it has to be this, you know, it's kind of boring and structured.

But when you have your own business, like, yeah, really think about, you know, having a creative name or doing the thing where you have people email you with a very specific subject title and you can make it creative. Like, if you're looking for someone who's creative, like, look for creativity.
And they're, you know, from the very beginning, from the initial reach out.

00:04:43 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah.

00:04:44 - Amber Hawley
And that's the thing where it's... Yeah, some of that stuff, you just learn by doing it and putting it out there. Like you said, interviewing people, both good and not so great. And then also... Having experiences as your business grows, like having people who are working for you and realizing like, okay, this was a deficit, right?
I will say like, I don't know that I had low expectations for my initial unicorns, or they were just fulfilling the need that I had at the time. And I don't think I fully clarified what I was looking for. And I think part of me in the very beginning, when I started hiring out different positions...
And I'm talking about more like administrative stuff, not just because I have other therapists that work for me doing therapy. And so it's like the administrative stuff. I think it was like, I didn't think that they would exist or that there was possibly somebody out there that would fulfill that.

And so it's like, oh, I don't even want to ask for that because then I might miss out.

00:05:41 - Maelisa Hall
Or it's even thinking like, I hate this task so much. There's no way somebody else would want to do that. And I know I've had that where I'm like, oh, like I almost feel bad, like offloading a task onto someone. But that's why we're all different, right?
That's why we talk about the personality test so much. Like there are truly people who love collecting receipts and organizing them. Yes, exactly. Thank God for those people. Yes, you're a saint.

00:06:06 - Amber Hawley
You're all saints, all of you.

00:06:08 - Maelisa Hall
But I think that's like, a big thing is remembering, like, oh, okay, no, like, so that's. My job is to find someone who really likes doing that so that they're feeling fulfilled too.

00:06:20 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and the thing is, and I think that, though initially it's that mindset of it can be, oh, would there be somebody who even wants this? But I still think that, like, I don't want to ask for too much like I, I. Let me just cover the bare basics. And sometimes that works, especially depending on the position you're in or what you're needing.
But then sometimes you realize that you have to keep...

00:06:41 - Amber Hawley
If you're too narrow, you're hiring this person here for just this, this person for just this. And it's like, sometimes at first, you need that more of a generalist person who can do many different things, right?

00:06:55 - Amber Hawley
And again... I think there's so many differences depending on your business and your industry that you've got to figure that out. But I think having clarity of what you're actually looking for, it's like you might decide that, hey, this one, I would love if they could do X, Y, Z, but it's okay if they can't.
That would just be like a bonus.

00:07:13 - Amber Hawley
But why not put it out there, right?

00:07:15 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, because you never know, especially I think if you're hiring in the beginning, but even later, like maybe you have in your head this goal you want to achieve for next year. But you haven't... Let's say, just to use an example I had, videos, doing YouTube.
And so I know editing videos is something I want to hire out eventually. It's kind of a more expensive service usually. So right now, I don't. But I know I want to hire that out one day, right? But if I was looking for someone and creating a job description, I might as well put that out there and see because...
if they're responding to something about assisting me with emails or helping me with website stuff, maybe they love editing videos. Maybe they do this on the side. Maybe their brother has a YouTube channel. And if you put it out there, then they can be like, hey, my brother has a YouTube channel and actually I've helped him out.

I'd love to start helping you with that too. I can do that too. But if I didn't bring it up, they wouldn't bring it up, right?

00:08:07 - Amber Hawley
Absolutely. Yes, that's such a good point. And I think the other thing that comes into what stops us from finding our unicorns is the mindset around money and spending money and hiring people.

00:08:19 - Amber Hawley
And there's a whole bunch of stuff that goes into that. People feeling responsible for people's livelihood or feeling like there's not enough in their business profitability-wise anyway. And so there's a whole bunch of things that we're not going to go into that part of it.

00:08:34 - Amber Hawley
But there are mindset things that people need to work through. But we know that hiring the right person can also free you up and help you make more money it can exponentially change your business if you find the right people because that frees you up to do more of the work that you do.
So if we kind of say like the mindset stuff, like start there, be okay with putting out there everything you want in just at least a document.

00:08:59 - Amber Hawley
You don't necessarily have to put that in a job description, but I think that's like the first step.

00:09:04 - Maelisa Hall
And then... Well, I also think part of that, like the flip side of the mindset thing is being able to recognize a lot of us wait to hire until we're desperate. And I know this also kind of goes into our next point about what are some actual best practices in hiring, but I feel like it's also a mindset piece.
If you are feeling desperate, you need to recognize that and know, I know I should have hired a long time ago. I'm feeling really overwhelmed and constantly remind yourself to be patient because it'll be so easy to just be like, this person's good enough.
Let me take them and then regret it later.

00:09:37 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And I definitely in the hiring process best practices. That's something I was definitely going to bring up because I have made that mistake. And I recently made it again. Although it didn't feel as clear, it wasn't as clear as the first time. The first time I knew.
I went through my whole hiring process and I knew this is not a good idea. But I was like, I really need somebody. And so I did it. And it was for a therapist. And I was like, oh, how bad will it be? Oh, it was bad. So And then firing people sucks and having to go through that.
And so there's just so much, it's so much easier. It may solve like a momentary thing. And I think if that's the case, you've got to figure out a different way to alleviate some of your stress and pressure and give you the space to do what you need to do.

00:10:23 - Amber Hawley
There are so many options out there, right? To not have to go through the process of hiring and firing somebody because it sucks.

00:10:32 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. But I think it's that initial step is recognizing like, okay, this is going to be really easy for me to just hire anybody. So I need to be really, really careful. And I think like having some decisions for yourself, like I'm always going to do two interviews, right?
So even if after that first one, you're feeling that like it gives you a few days or a week or two in between to remind yourself, okay, wait, no, I saw this red flag and I felt that for a reason. So maybe I need to step back and evaluate whether or not I should actually hire this person.

00:11:01 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. So if we're going into best practices, so the first thing, it would be around the job description, right? I've come to learn that making it not... I mean, most of us own our own businesses. we're not another corporate place. There's a unique personality to our business and culture to our business.
And I think as much as possible, getting that into your job description gives people an idea and it attracts people who are wanting some of that. So I definitely started using a little bit of humor and fun in my job description. I made some kind of reference.
I should have it in front of me, but of course, that would be prepared.

00:11:36 - Amber Hawley
So I made some kind of reference about somebody who loves to organize things as much as they love chocolate or something like that. And using some kind of humor in that regard goes a long way just to kind of give people like, this isn't your average office, right?

00:11:53 - Maelisa Hall
Well, yeah. And I know when you were looking for an assistant a while ago, you specifically said in the job description, things like the fact that you are a mom of three kids and you have three businesses and you have a lot of things vying for your attention.
So you need someone who understands that and can take charge a little bit. Yes.

00:12:11 - Amber Hawley
Really getting clear. That's what I'm needing. I'm who can carefully do the carefrontations and guide me, but also can work independently. And so really weaving that stuff into your job description is super important, in my opinion.

00:12:28 - Amber Hawley
And one thing that I started doing that I did in my last round, and I assure you, I found a unicorn. My current practice coordinator, Joanna, is a unicorn. I adore her.

00:12:37 - Amber Hawley
I sometimes think you don't know fully that they're a unicorn until they come in and they've been working for a little bit. You're like hoping, you're like, ooh, unicorn potential. But it's not until they come in And so like she came in and it was really fascinating.
And I don't remember if we've talked about it on this podcast, but so I had a position for a practice coordinator. And in the job description at the bottom, there were five questions you had to answer. And they were very simple, like ridiculously simple.
It's not like that was a trick, right? It was just to see if because I'm looking for someone with attention to detail. And like one of the things was send me an email to this and it listed email address, not mine.

00:13:15 - Amber Hawley
And put in the title or the subject line, amazing practice coordinator position or something like that. And then you had to have a cover letter and you had to answer the other questions. Well, I will tell you, initially I thought, oh gosh, like, 90% of the people aren't following directions.
No, I calculated it.

00:13:31 - Amber Hawley
It was actually, I think it was 98 or 99. Do you remember?

00:13:35 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, I think it was 98. It was something insane.

00:13:37 - Amber Hawley
98% of people did not follow the directions. And I will tell you, that saved me a lot of time because I was able to just disregard. In the application process, they didn't even follow directions like goodbye. And so out of 61 applicants... there were three that followed the directions.

00:13:55 - Amber Hawley
And so my process for hiring is we do that. So we weed people out in the application process because I ain't got time for that.

00:14:03 - Amber Hawley
The second part is a phone screen where typically it would be my practice coordinator that goes through the phone conversation with people to kind of, you know, just like feel them out and reiterate questions and just make sure like there's some consistency there and they sound like they would probably be a good match.
If they make it through that, Then there's an in-person interview with me. And the first interview, I look at that as a general getting to know each other, explaining more about the company and the position, and just getting to know them personality-wise.
And then the second one is more of looking more at skills and talking more about that.

00:14:38 - Amber Hawley
I mean, you're getting all of that anyway. So I always do two in-person interviews. And the second one is always with somebody else on my team as well. And so you got to meet people multiple times because... sometimes those red flags do not show up until later, right?

00:14:52 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, for sure.

00:14:54 - Maelisa Hall
And I think, I mean, that's huge because 61 people would be super overwhelming to go through, but it's really easy if you can narrow it down to three right off the bat.

00:15:05 - Amber Hawley
I know, it's so crazy. Can you imagine if I had to do that?

00:15:08 - Amber Hawley
And I will say because, so normally I have that process, the phone screen and two in-persons. Well, I was super overwhelmed and I was also interviewing for therapists as well at the time. So Because I didn't have my practice coordinator person, those three people, I just interviewed them in person.

00:15:24 - Amber Hawley
So I did make an exception because I was really overwhelmed and busy and I didn't have the time. And so I was like, oh, this is easy. And it was fine because actually two of them were extremely viable and I ended up hiring two.

00:15:36 - Amber Hawley
But yeah, so it wasn't like a significant waste of time. But I think there's something about having a hiring process that helps you find the right people.

00:15:44 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. And I do think it's really helpful to like what you normally do of having someone else do that phone screening initially, because it's saving you some time from the weeding out process. And it's also, I think, if you're someone who tends to be like a feelings carrying type of person, you might like start connecting with someone who's really not a good fit, right?
Like you will interview people who are awesome and you want to go have dinner with them later, but they're not a good fit for the job. right? It's just inevitable that's going to happen. So I think that's really smart. It makes me think about this interview I heard where Michael Hyatt was talking about managing his calendar and about how for him, a game changer was having someone else manage his scheduling because he was the person who would be like, okay, I'm going to have this structured time where I'm always off work at five.

But then if he was the one managing his calendar, he would start making exceptions for people.

00:16:38 - Amber Hawley
Right?

00:16:39 - Maelisa Hall
He'd be like, oh, well, you know, I can cut my lunch short or I can stay a little bit later or I can come in a little earlier or whatever. But when someone else is doing that for you and they just have these guidelines of like nine to five, that's when he's available.
Nope, sorry, he's not available. Yes. You know what I mean? That's a good point.

00:16:54 - Amber Hawley
I think that can give people anxiety too of fearing like, oh, but I want to have some flexibility. And again, but there's so much in having more of that structure. There's so much value in that.

00:17:04 - Maelisa Hall
So I love, that's such a great point. Yeah. And obvious, I'm sure he's told the person like, if Oprah calls, that's different.

00:17:12 - Amber Hawley
I will see her at seven. I will see you whenever. Yeah. You got to have that exception list. Of course, Oprah's always at the top of that list.

00:17:25 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. I think that, yeah, what you were saying, that makes so much sense too, because that's how I felt.

00:17:30 - Amber Hawley
Like, obviously when I'm hiring the practice coordinator, if I don't have any other administrative staff, or if you're somebody that doesn't have anybody else in your business yet, this is like the first step. So it's harder. But once you start really growing your business, and as I hire more administrative staff or other kinds of positions, or my therapist, having that buffer was so good for me because I do care and it gets emotional and it just feels bad sometimes having to reject people.

00:17:58 - Amber Hawley
So it was so nice to have the intake person do the phones and then I would do the two in-persons and they would do the follow-up. So anytime that we give someone a rejection, it's coming from the practice coordinator and it's just very matter of fact, which I think is just really professional and clean cut.
And doesn't make it feel personal, but it makes it easier, right? If you start to write that email yourself, I can see people talking themselves out of it or being a little soft around it or something. So yeah, I think it's nice when you can have someone like that.

00:18:30 - Maelisa Hall
And a lot of people just don't do it. I know I've been in that boat. I can't even remember if we did tell people that they were officially not selected at my last corporate job. They're just waiting. Yeah.

00:18:43 - Amber Hawley
It sucks.

00:18:44 - Maelisa Hall
We've all been there where you're looking for a job and it sucks when you're waiting. So I think it's nice. It's also just a nice thing to do to close the loop, right?

00:18:54 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:55 - Maelisa Hall
Somebody else sends the email saying like, no, you have not been selected or obviously.

00:19:00 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, allow them to move on. And that's true. And I'm pretty sure probably there have been times when I'm super busy and overwhelmed where I didn't get back to every single person.

00:19:08 - Amber Hawley
But I feel like when people just send in the applications, obviously, they don't need to have that because some people you can tell all they're doing is just applying to every job, which is why this... It actually is like 99%. I figured it out. It's like 99.
5%. So it's like people are just blanket applying and that's why they're not reading or paying attention or customizing, which is a terrible application process. But yeah, after we've talked to somebody, we have a rejection email that's a template that's already created at every stage after the phone screen, after the first interview, after the second interview.

00:19:41 - Amber Hawley
So it's so easy. Then we just have to pop in their name, pop in their email, and it just makes it easier for everyone. So because it doesn't feel good. It's stressful. I also imagine if I could see value in... having somebody who helps you with that. I know there are HR people you can hire virtually, do consultation with.

00:20:01 - Amber Hawley
I could see having them help you in part of the process if you're hiring your first person or you're needing somebody to help you with those boundaries. That could be really good.

00:20:11 - Amber Hawley
But I do think just the structure of the interview process alone helps you to weed out people that, like you said, either you just connect with on a personal level, but then to really get real about is this really the right person based on that criteria I was listing for myself initially on Margarita Night?

00:20:31 - Maelisa Hall
Well, and I think the other thing is to whatever the job is, you really have to evaluate that job task. And that might sound like a no-brainer, but it's not. So for you, if you're hiring a therapist... You're not going to have them do like a mock therapy session with you necessarily.
But you are, like you said in that second interview, asking them clinical questions, like questions about the actual job they'll be doing so that you know how they think about things. What are their reactions? What is their gut reaction to things? Because...
like in our field as therapists, you have to be able to react in the room, right?

00:21:08 - Maelisa Hall
When somebody does something. Yes. That could be a real crapshoot too, let me tell you.

00:21:13 - Maelisa Hall
And I know I have been so impressed by people through their reactions. For example, I can think of one person who did end up being a unicorn and was amazing that we hired. Again, this is in my corporate job. And she, we had a few clinical questions and one of them, we all, like those of us who created the questions thought it was easy, but apparently it was not because that one question weeded out a lot of people and it was about different types of diagnoses.
And this one woman, she said, she was like, hmm, and she kind of sat back and she thought, and she was like, can I make, do you mind if I make a couple notes to myself first? And we were like, sure. And then she like sat there for just maybe like two minutes and then she answered the question.
We were like, oh yeah, like that's awesome. And it was the type of thing where, you know, that type of thing, you would have some time to think about it. And I was so impressed by that, by her confidence and saying, you know what, let me think about it before I give you that answer.

And like spending the time to evaluate it. And she ended up being amazing. And on the flip side, we had other people where, again, I thought this was a super easy question. And we were doing the interview, like the whole interview thinking, oh, this person's great.
We're getting along with them really well. And they seem really smart. They seem to have like amazing experience. And then they bomb the question and we're like, ugh. Because it was the type of thing where it was like, ugh, if they can't answer that, that means we're going to be doing a lot of explaining and training with them in the beginning.
Exactly.

00:22:35 - Amber Hawley
And there are times where you make those exceptions, right? But I love that. And that's why I do the clinical question because we want to know how do people think. That's more important than even necessarily getting it right, quote unquote, right? Because there are definitely times where I give people a little bit of leeway understanding that they're anxious because people do get really anxious about this.
And, you know, then there are times I make exceptions.

00:22:56 - Amber Hawley
And then there are those times where, like you said, you realize what this is telling you is this person is going to be a lot of handholding. And that's going to be a lot of extra work for you. And so if you're prepared for that, that's fine.

00:23:08 - Amber Hawley
But if not, and something I do, and I think this is specific, this would obviously depend on the kind of job you're hiring for. But what I do in a second interview is I purposely challenge them just to see how they respond, which I totally love. Because You want to see how people respond because hello, as therapists, we're going to get challenged because it's part of our job.

00:23:29 - Amber Hawley
And that should not, we should be so like steady with that kind of stuff, right? Not that we know all the answers, but that we should be able to handle someone challenging us. And I had somebody who I was really interested in, like kind of freaking melt down about it.
And it wasn't even a big challenge.

00:23:44 - Amber Hawley
I was like, okay, thank God I did that. Because it just gave so much information. And so, yeah, I think thinking about the bigger picture of what are the qualities that you're looking for. If you're looking for somebody who's in a high demand job, who's going to get a lot of challenging and negativity, putting them in that position and seeing how they respond can be really helpful.

00:24:09 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. If you're hiring someone to handle your emails, which I highly recommend, by the way, it's amazing. Know that number one, they're a good writer. And know that number two, they're good at customer service. Because guess what? Not everybody is naturally good at customer service.
And that's so easy to test, right? Like you can just send them a few sample emails of like people complaining or people requesting something or, you know, I'm sure you have plenty of examples of all the people who have emailed you that are super annoying, right?
And then like see how they would answer it, you know? But I think you have to, it's more work to test someone's actual skills in the job. But I think like you have to do it.

00:24:46 - Amber Hawley
Oh, it saves you so much in the long run. So yeah, making sure that you're checking for those kind of qualities that are so difficult. Like everyone's putting themselves in the best light when they're in an interview, which is why I've actually heard that.
I feel like probably other people have heard this story where This one person who does a lot of hiring and I can't think of who it is, but he talks about because people are so ready to... They're used to... If they're in the interviewing space, they're applying for jobs, they're doing this, right?
They're used to going in, going into your office, sitting down, answering the same questions, right? So when you change it up... And I think that's why in the first in-person interview, I'm very different. It's really like a conversation and... It is like getting to know each other and me explaining about the business just as much.
I think it kind of puts them at ease and relaxes them and takes them out of that normal, like, here's my robotic answers.

00:25:36 - Amber Hawley
So then when I come in on the second one, and it's a little more like in depth or questioning or challenging, they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so I get more real responses. And of course, I think if you really are super challenging, you should disclose by the end of the interview that you did that on purpose.
Yeah. so that they know. But like I said, in this one, it wasn't even like a major challenge. It was like a correction or like, well, I see it differently. That kind of thing. But the person I heard talking about this, he said that's why he does interviews at restaurants because people, they have this routine that they get into.

00:26:08 - Amber Hawley
And so he meets them for food and it just relaxes them and puts them in a different mindset and they talk freer.

00:26:15 - Amber Hawley
And I will tell you, one of my practices after I hire somebody is on their first day, we go out to lunch. And I invite as many of the team as possible can attend, right?

00:26:24 - Maelisa Hall
And you pay.

00:26:25 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And I pay, obviously. So it's like this team bonding thing. Because I remember when I worked for this political consulting firm, and they did that for me on my first day.

00:26:34 - Amber Hawley
And it just was so special. I felt special because often we get hired in places and we get thrown in the deep end. And that still can happen. But if you've given them this warm welcome, and like as many people on the team as possible can come in, even if it's just me and that person, because it didn't work out schedule wise, it's still a really nice way.

00:26:51 - Amber Hawley
And that's when you really get to know people. So part of me because I had this kind of not great experience with somebody recently, where in that first lunch, I was like, Oh, crap. I totally made a mistake here. And it was so clear.

00:27:03 - Amber Hawley
And I thought, man, I should really incorporate doing the lunch thing as part of my interview process because holy balls. People, I've had it happen a couple of times where people, because then they relax and they kind of get real. It's like, oh, I just wish they would do that in the interview process.
And so there are times I go to lunch and think, oh God, yes, I'm so happy. And there have been a couple of times where I'm like, oh dear God, this was such a mistake.

00:27:27 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. I think that's so important. It's funny. My husband always says it's Henry Ford. One of his hiring things was that he would take the person to lunch in the interview process. And if they salted their food or seasoned their food before tasting it, they were off his list.

00:27:42 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Okay. That's who it is. That's where the thing comes from. And I was going to mention that too. I remember the salting thing. Sometimes I think about that one a lot because I feel like, well... I get it. I get what it represents. And I also feel like, oh my gosh, but salting is such a different...
It's so personal. And at the same... I think I would have such a hard time with that one. But I understand it because he's saying, if you aren't willing to test something and try something and then... understand what it needs. Instead, you're going through the motions of, oh, my food comes, I salt it, I eat it.
There's no questioning of the process. And so that's what he's looking for is people who are critically thinking, right?

00:28:22 - Amber Hawley
It makes a lot of sense to me. And especially if you think about that, is it Suzanne Evans that said in her book, the way you do anything is the way you do everything. I think that's where that kind of concept comes from. That's who it was. I couldn't remember who it was from.

00:28:35 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, I mean, because I will do certain things and my husband will always, that's how I know he brings it up to me because he's like, oh, Henry Ford wouldn't have hired you. I don't salt my food, but I'll do things like, you know, like put creamer in the coffee before whatever, you know, or know that it needs more creamer before, you know.

00:28:52 - Amber Hawley
Before ever tasting it.

00:28:53 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, but you're basing that on color though.

00:28:55 - Amber Hawley
So I feel like I disagree with Carlos on this one.

00:28:58 - Amber Hawley
Although I do think of it too. I'm like, Henry Ford would not hire me because I like to pepper everything. Nothing is ever spicy enough.

00:29:07 - Maelisa Hall
But I think even having those things where in your mind, you're like, this thing is so important to me that that's going to be my yes or no, right? Or that's going to be my litmus test. And when we think, like you were saying, like, oh, I understand what he means, but I'm also kind of thinking like, oh, it's that FOMO of like, but if I don't do that, will I miss out on the one person who's going to be the best fit?
And it's, I think throughout the whole hiring process, And even when you're later on maybe determining if you need to hire other people or if you need to fire someone, it's remembering that there are plenty of people out there. Yeah. Almost everybody is replaceable.
Maybe not their personality and the flavor they might bring to something, but you can hire someone else who will be amazing and will do a really great job and provide value to your business.

00:29:54 - Amber Hawley
And I think that's such a good point because that goes back to even the desperation that we feel because... that fear of missing out or that feeling of, oh, I'm so overloaded. I need this relief right now. And it can cause us to make exceptions for people where we really shouldn't.

00:30:07 - Amber Hawley
So having more clarity in what you're needing and your expectations is really important. And I know sometimes people think I sound cutthroat. I remember I posted on my Facebook page and there was somebody associated with me who I don't really know. And they had a reaction to me saying how 99% of the people did not answer the questions.
And she thought I was giving them like, I don't know, like the bar exam or something, just making it really complex.

00:30:32 - Amber Hawley
And I'm like, no, here are the questions. Like really simple, right? But getting clear and it helps you. Because I remember there were times where I would look at someone's resume and be like, oh my God, on paper, they're awesome. But they didn't follow the directions.
And so I just knew like they were going to be a problem for me. And because I have so much going on, I don't have time to micromanage people. right? And so I think it's just paying attention to those red flags. That's like paying attention or the yellow flags, paying attention to yellow flags.

00:31:03 - Amber Hawley
I had this one person, it was two years ago when I was going to hire a personal assistant. I mean, an assistant in my business, but not doing intake stuff. I found this woman who I thought she was fabulous.

00:31:14 - Amber Hawley
Her personality was amazing. She did a writing sample. She was so fantastic. But at the time, I was needing somebody who could do... Actually, it was going to be a combo because I needed her to do intake stuff. And my concern was, there were a couple of things she said and did.
And I thought, oh, how is that going to come across to people? Because even though I have a great sense of humor, I really do believe in being super professional, like laid back, but professional.

00:31:39 - Amber Hawley
And I remember at one point, she was saying something and I asked her some amazing question, of course, and... She said, she's like, oh, yeah, well, I just wouldn't want someone to micromanage me. If you give me a task, I don't like when people follow up.
I want you to trust me. And I sat there for a minute and just kind of looked at her. And I'm thinking, well, as a business owner, I'm going to follow up if I want to follow up. And then she, it's almost like she knew and she said, but I understand it's your business.
It's your baby. You'll want to like, you're going to make sure. So she kind of realized her mistake, but it was enough.

00:32:09 - Amber Hawley
Like she was so fantastic. It was enough for me not to pursue her because I just realized I was like, oh, there's, I don't want people to be defensive. Like I need people to be really open to feedback and just like, I don't want any drama in my work life.

00:32:25 - Amber Hawley
Right. And so, you know, I moved on from her and it was hard.

00:32:29 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, I remember. I remember you talking about her and I remember you having that conflict. And I think that's like, if there's any one overarching rule, it's go with your gut.

00:32:39 - Amber Hawley
Yes.

00:32:40 - Maelisa Hall
Pay attention to those gut feelings. And I think it is awesome when you can involve other people in the process so that you're not just going off of those gut feelings and you have someone who can maybe challenge you and say, well, why did you have that?
Why did that response, you know, make you react in such? And it challenges you to really think about, okay, why am I having this gut reaction and kind of, you know, depersonalize it. And then again, that helps you grow and it helps you identify more what you need.
But paying attention to those things is so important.

00:33:07 - Amber Hawley
Yes, it saves you so much heartache in the long run. And that's why having a Biz Busty is so great because I did call you and kind of talk to you and you were willing to do, we were going to do a virtual interview on Zoom with the three of us. And I just never took the next step because I think ultimately, even though I was going to have you help me with that process, I realized like, no, because I already have it in my gut, even though everything...

00:33:30 - Amber Hawley
I loved everything else about her. And I really do think ultimately, she was probably really great. But I just at the time with the size of my team and where I was at with things, it just wasn't going to be something that I could deal with. And to go back to what you said a little bit ago about the fear of like everybody's replaceable and that it's like there are so many people out there, we need to keep that mindset.

00:33:52 - Amber Hawley
And I can't remember if I said this already, but it's the motto I like to think about is if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no. And I would say my first unicorn I had was in my intake position as well.

00:34:02 - Amber Hawley
And I've had some therapist unicorns. I have some currently. And I just think they're so amazing.

00:34:08 - Amber Hawley
But the first person I had, oh, gosh, she just made my life so much better. And it was things worked so well.

00:34:14 - Amber Hawley
And I was devastated when she was ready to leave. And I knew it was coming because she became a licensed therapist and I knew she was going to do therapy. And I just really didn't want her to leave. And I thought, oh gosh, everything's going to go to hell.
And I did go through a couple people in the interim, but then I ended up finding Joanna this summer.

00:34:31 - Amber Hawley
And in a way, it's so much better because even though Angela was fantastic, she had a limited amount of time she could give me because she had so much on her plate, right? And we knew that. And that was where I was like, I'm okay. I'm okay with not having everything I need because she's so great.
And she was. So sometimes you lose somebody. And then I ended up with Joanna who had much more time and availability and all these tech skills. And it's just made it exponentially better. So it's one of those things where sometimes you...

00:34:59 - Amber Hawley
One door closes and it's this other thing that it's not like she's better or worse, or it's just that there's more opportunity and she fulfilled more areas, right?

00:35:08 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. Everything didn't fall apart and it's great now and it was great then.

00:35:13 - Amber Hawley
So great.

00:35:13 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And now she's ticking off all these other projects for me that I didn't have anyone to do. So sometimes that person comes back and you get your new unicorn.

00:35:22 - Amber Hawley
And I guess I meant to define the unicorn at the start of the episode. We actually should make this a drinking episode. If you want to go back and listen to this, every time we say unicorn, I think you should take a drink of something. Oh, I like that.

00:35:34 - Amber Hawley
Maybe a margarita or your coffee. That's fine too. But I want to bring this up. And only because I saw somebody post about this where their concept of a unicorn was finding someone just like you. And I was like, oh, that's intriguing. I never thought of it that way.

00:35:52 - Amber Hawley
Because for me, I don't want to hire someone like me, especially as a therapist, because then they're going to want to run their own business. They're not going to want to work for me. I want to find someone who's an amazing clinician and has different qualities and skills than I do, but isn't interested in running a business.

00:36:07 - Amber Hawley
My unicorns are the people who are going to fulfill that list or they make up for my deficits because there's things I'm just not good at. And so that's kind of how I conceptualize it. I meant to talk about that at the beginning.

00:36:19 - Amber Hawley
But I think you're finding people on your team to help you grow your business to the next level. So I think often they can be complementary. Of course, it's nice when personality-wise they get along with you.

00:36:29 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. I think that's a must when you're building out a team. But especially, yeah, that unicorn has to be someone who's going to complement you.

00:36:36 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. And... I know we have to wrap this up, but one last thing in the interview process. I guess we'll have to do another one where we talk about how to nurture people on your team after they get on board because I think that's a really important topic around leadership and all of that.
The other thing I also do in my interviews is I ask people how they feel about people using the F word because... And I said, I never say it at people, but I drop F-bombs when I'm really stressed out and I wouldn't want somebody to come on board who would be offended by that.

00:37:07 - Amber Hawley
And that's, I mean, I'm not saying say that, but think about those things too, where you know you have these personality quirks that maybe not everybody loves.

00:37:15 - Amber Hawley
And so kind of checking that out because then it's like that way they know like, I just want everyone to be happy here, right?

00:37:20 - Amber Hawley
100%. So there are many strategies around things that you say in the interview to kind of communicate your culture of your company to make sure that you're attracting like-minded individuals. And like we said, I think we're going to need to do another episode where we talk more about best practices once somebody comes on board to make sure you keep those unicorns and nurture them in the right way.
But we hope you found all of the information helpful about kind of starting the process of hiring, how to think about what you're really needing in your business in a way that isn't limiting, but it's also very specific.

00:37:56 - Amber Hawley
And kind of the starting point of that hiring process.

00:38:01 - Maelisa Hall
So whether you're actually looking to hire that team or you have a team that's fulfilling some of those roles, but you still need to outsource a few things, we would like to introduce you to My Digital Maven, which is our new digital marketing agency.
For health professionals. Yes, directed for health professionals. I was waiting for like the huge, round of applause.

00:38:25 - Maelisa Hall
Oh, I'm so sorry. Like yells of excitement.

00:38:30 - Amber Hawley
Strongs of people.

00:38:31 - Maelisa Hall
Yes.

00:38:32 - Amber Hawley
So yes, for all of you who would like to get a little more of the besties and you're a health professional and you would like support around that for all things digital marketing, head on over to mydigitalmaven.com.