Achieve Business Balance and Consistent Marketing with Jen McFarland

Speaker A [00:00:01]:
Hey there friend. Welcome back for another episode of the Easily Distracted Entrepreneur. I've taken a little hiatus for a few reasons, the least of which was being sick for two months with COVID long Covid and then bronchitis and then getting Covid again on my birthday of all things at the start of September. But luckily it bounced back quickly from that one.

Speaker B [00:00:21]:
My bandwidth was so little that I.

Speaker A [00:00:24]:
Focused only on the core of my business which is showing up in my memberships and for my one on one clients. I also was taking a break because I was revamping how I do the work in my business so that I can show up with the best energy and serve my clients and you, the podcast listener in the most helpful, strategic, supportive way for your neuro spicy brains and your businesses. There have been many up levels in the Inner Circle and Incubator in the last couple months. I share more about that in a different episode, but one big addition that has been Amazing is Jen McFarland joining the Easily Distracted Entrepreneur team as Chief Marketing Officer. Jen is a 20 plus year marketing and tech professional.

She has been providing marketing trainings and coaching in the membership for the last four months and members are loving her easy to understand marketing guidance for even the most tech phobic of you. Jen's next session is tomorrow, Tuesday, September 25th and it's an ask me Anything session where you can get expert answering of your tech and marketing questions. If you ever consider joining the Inner Circle, this is the week to do it. Tuesday is Jen's coaching session, Friday is our Q4 quarterly goal planning workshop and in honor of Virgo season, you can get a whole year inside the Inner Circle community for only $49 a month.

Head over to amberholley.com inner circle to get more information and and or click on the link in the show notes. Jen and I recorded this episode before she came on as cmo, so we don't discuss that here. But it's the perfect episode to talk about something that all of us neurospicy people struggle with and that is consistency.

Speaker B [00:02:17]:
And what does that actually mean when.

Speaker A [00:02:18]:
It comes to our business practices? All or nothing thinking is a common struggle for us neurodivergent people. Either we're extremely consistent and maybe a little rigid about it and and sometimes we can feel like we can't do it perfectly and are overwhelmed and then it goes to nothing. The in between can be a struggle and finding that happy medium is not so natural for many of us. In our conversation we talk about how you can market Your business in a sustainable way.

Speaker B [00:02:54]:
I have an amazing guest with me today who has been on the podcast before, who I love and adore, who.

Speaker A [00:03:01]:
The wonderful Jen McFarland. Welcome, Jen.

Jen McFarland [00:03:04]:
Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker B [00:03:08]:
We can't get rid of each other. We spend a lot of time during every week together.

Jen McFarland [00:03:13]:
We do indeed.

Speaker B [00:03:14]:
Yes, Jen is in my incubator program, but she is also our resident marketing guru and marketing and tech guru, I would say here at the Easily Distracted Entrepreneur. And we just about an hour ago finished your most recent marketing workshop. That was amazing. People did not want it to end.

Jen McFarland [00:03:42]:
It was fun though. We had a great time.

Speaker B [00:03:43]:
Yeah, it was so good. Yeah. It was about looking at your website through your customers eyes. And I think what I love is how you approach it in such a, in such an easy way for everyone to understand like why they're doing something because that helps us be a little more motivated to actually do so. Something, you know, if we understand the why.

Jen McFarland [00:04:07]:
And that could be because, you know, I'm, because I'm neurospicy myself. Like I always have to come up with why, why, why do I have to do this, you know, 100% that's part of it. And so when we were talking about why you need to review your website through your customer's eyes, I mean it sounds like a no brainer, right? Like you don't really write a website for yourself, but it's so hard to do because you put so much time and effort into building a website so you get a little too close to it. So sometimes you have need another, another set of eyes to look at it. And you know, even myself, like that's the thing, like they say how like therapists have therapists, marketers also have marketers. It's an important part of like all of our journeys is to have somebody go like yeah, no, yeah. And help you see it.

Speaker B [00:04:54]:
You know, it's true though, because we do get attached. Like we get very attached. And I find like so many of us, like we can write really well, but when we have to do it for ourselves, it becomes infinitely harder and more difficult. So that's why I liked the way you approached it because it even got me thinking about, oh, okay, this is what I should do differently.

Jen McFarland [00:05:19]:
Yeah, yeah. And that's the whole point, right? Like, you know, a lot of times when we talk about, you know, when, when you and I are working together on my business inside of the incubator program, it's like, no, Jen, like you don't have to do all the things. What can we start with? You know, and it's the same thing with your marketing, right? Like what's the ceiling and what's the floor? Because you can't do all or nothing. You've, you always have to play into that like middle road, you know, and that's like the consistency of like, you know, in your business where you have to check your finances or you have to, you know, tend to your clients or things like that. And then in your marketing it's like, okay, well what's the bare minimum? You don't have to post every day to social media if you're going to use that channel, but you need to at least do something, you know, and.

Speaker B [00:06:01]:
Right.

Jen McFarland [00:06:01]:
And that's really when we talk about the consistency. You know, for me, marketing comes down to business goals. It's like, what, what are we trying to accomplish and why, you know, we always go back to that center, you know, and if we're not really clear why we're doing something, then we really have to stop and, and refocus our energy. And I guess that's why I usually start with, well, why is this important? Why should I even care about looking at my website through my customer's eyes or why should I even care about a Google business profile or setting up a strategy, any of those things? Because if you don't know why you're doing it, then you're not as bought in.

Speaker B [00:06:42]:
Yes. And also that means you probably lack clarity. And for me, I think like that clarity is what makes it easier to execute on things.

Jen McFarland [00:06:52]:
For sure. Yeah. And because marketing is changing so rapidly, people get really overwhelmed. And so sometimes it's just good to have somebody who's like, no, you don't need to do all of that. That's okay, I understand why you're looking at that. But right now this is more pressing. And that's a lot of the guidance that I think you and I both do with people. It's really about honoring people's space and then providing that level of guidance and support so that they can choose a path that's more beneficial to their longer term goals.

Speaker A [00:07:27]:
A thousand percent.

Speaker B [00:07:29]:
And you know, I think for so many people, marketing in general is already a little overwhelming. And they don't, or they don't really understand it like what it is. And we all, I mean, we know that often people will like converge sales and marketing together, thinking they're the same thing when they're not. And so, yeah, so people aren't doing it because they're not Clear. They feel unsure. And like you said, it's changing all the time. So it feels like, how do I stay caught up on that when I have to see my clients do whatever my expertise is? Like you said, finances, all the things. I think that's what becomes so hard for people. And that's why we go into the all or nothing. It's not because we're lazy. Right. It's because there are too many demands hands on us and we don't have that clear strategic plan. So it becomes the all or nothing, which we know then often creates inconsistencies in our income.

Jen McFarland [00:08:28]:
Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And. And part of it too is like, how do you trick yourself into doing things when you don't feel like doing it? You know, and marketing is one of the big things for a lot of people of, like, they don't understand it and they don't want to feel icky. Like, I help a lot of people who don't want to be one of those, you know, hey, buy my stuff. Like, you know, slick marketers, they're not really interested in that. You know, they want to be like, they want to show up truly authentically. And that's scary. You know, there's a little exposure there and it's not necessarily what's taught. You know, people oftentimes in my industry say, be authentically yourself, just like this person. And that's not authenticity. Authenticity is not being like somebody else, it's actually being yourself. And so it causes a lot of confusion. And then there's so many tactics. And especially now with like AI, like there's just a multitude of options. And I think it's fair, it's incredibly fair for people to feel overwhelmed, buy it. And some people are overwhelmed into paralysis.

I would say that that's not necessarily us. You and I seem to be on the opposite end, which is, I'm going to try this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to buy this, I'm going to do it and overwhelm ourselves in a different way. Because we have too many options, we've bought too many tools, and we need to remember to cancel some things that we're not using that really weren't a good idea. And I say that because I do that myself. I don't know if you even know. I used to be like an app tester and I used to do, like, when I was a business analyst before I started my business, part of what we did was develop apps and I did website development and all kinds of Stuff and it was like we were always trying to look at things through the customer lens.

And so then now I'm like, oh, does it do the magical thing that I'm looking for? And then part of the time I just want to test software and it really has nothing to do with anything. And I've learned to rein that in. That's, that's been my, my life's work the last couple of years is like, we don't need to test all the things. That's really rare. I mean, a lot of people go the other direction and I totally understand it, which is like, I don't know what to do. So I'm just going to do nothing because then, like, I'm not going to overwhelm myself. And the problem with that is because marketing in general is about awareness and it's about taking people to the doorstep of a sales conversation. You need marketing so that then people know how killer you are before you get into the consult.

You know, like marketing drops people off at the door and says, you know, here's the product, you know, and everything, you know, and then, and then after that it's about the sales process, it's about what is the buying, you know, if you have a product, like, it's about what is that buying experience. Like if you have a service about how well are you onboarding all of those things? There also are marketing opportunities inside there. Like if you have a great onboarding for a client that is like amazing marketing for what it's like to work with you. But by and large, marketing is just sort of like, hey, I'm offering this, you know, you can explore it here and you can learn more. And if you're not doing that, then, then it's really hard for people to know what you're all about.

Speaker B [00:11:59]:
Absolutely. And the sad part is I feel like so many of us who aren't being consistent in our marketing or are these amazing experts and have these great services are the best kept secrets in their industry. And it feels like the people who are like just more willing to put themselves out there all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean they're better at all, it's just that they're willing to talk about it or they're willing to like do that awareness, you know, piece, right?

Jen McFarland [00:12:39]:
Yeah. You know, like this month I finally hired somebody to help with my social media because I've realized now that like, I'm burned out on it. So I wasn't doing it. Even though it's really powerful when I do it Consistently. And so, like, that's an example of, like, me, I would rather write than do a lot of stuff. But I sat down, she gave me, like, she's like, why don't you talk about this? And I made, like, eight videos. And I was like, why do I stall on this so much? Like, it was like, I made eight videos. I edited them, like, all of it in under an hour. And I was like, what is wrong with me that I can't just sit down and do this? You know, and it's that, you know, sometimes we block on stuff, you know, or we. But having that accountability, I mean, I think that that's what's so powerful about, you know, being part of a group or, you know, having a marketing coach or having somebody to help you with, you know, anxiety or, you know, being neurospicy.

I mean, I think all of that accountability is what can really help. And so for me, having somebody who's like, hey, Jen, why don't you make videos about this? I'm like, oh, okay, just tell me what you want. There's something way easier about that. And I say that as somebody who's dishing out marketing advice all the time. But like many people, by the end of the day, because I'm meeting with clients all the time, I'm kind of like, I don't feel like marketing. I've been doing marketing all day. I don't want to do it. And so it's kind of. It's kind of like that for other people. You've been working hard with clients all day. Sometimes you're like, you're tired. You don't want to do it, but you still have to do it, because that's. You're right. Like, the people who are out there all the time, you know, they're getting, like, the credibility or the notoriety, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're better at what they do than you.

Speaker B [00:14:29]:
Absolutely. And you know what? Your example is so great, because what that totally highlighted is that it's clarity. Because you had somebody saying, this is what you need to create, and you could just create it. Like you said, there's too many options. And this is where I see so many people getting stuck, not just with marketing, but with everything in their business, or, what should I do? What should my goals be? What should I focus on? It's like, there's so many options, but if you just did the one thing and you don't overthink it, so you were able to get it done in an hour, which I Have to say, I'm so impressed by that. That's amazing. But that's the power of not just the accountability piece, but it's like somebody giving you, like, taking away all the noise and giving you a clear direction, and you can just execute.

Jen McFarland [00:15:21]:
And that's the thing, you know, working with somebody who is caring and knowledgeable can clear the barriers. That's really the thing. And so when you know, and it's interesting, I think that a lot of people don't want to talk about the fact that they themselves, within their businesses, have barriers. Like me saying that sometimes I want somebody else to boss me. That doesn't mean that I'm not very capable and an expert in my field. It means that I'm smart enough to know, but I need somebody to tell me what to do sometimes because I'm focused on other things. I think that when you're building a business, it's really easy to go into your genius, into your comfort zone, and forget about things like marketing, forget about things like finance, if that's not really your jam. And, you know, and then all these other. All these other areas of your business are equally important. And if you're not tending to, like, a garden, you know, you can. The weeds can overrun everything else that you're trying to do. And that's the importance of being consistent in several areas of your business.

Speaker B [00:16:27]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, I've. We've said this many times, and I know people say this a lot. It's like, you can't always do your genius or what is now. Now that I say we say it all the time, and I will screw it up, but you can't work your genius on yourself. And like you said, I think that. And I think it does come down to, like, people feeling, oh, are people gonna think I'm not good enough or I'm a bad business owner or I don't have all the answers. And it's like, actually, the smartest people know when they need to get out of the way and stop being the bottleneck.

Speaker A [00:17:03]:
Right.

Jen McFarland [00:17:03]:
Yeah, same.

Speaker B [00:17:05]:
I needed to hire somebody to do what I can do so easily for others. I need someone to help me be accountable and to focus and to clear barriers and stuff.

Jen McFarland [00:17:15]:
And that was the thing. I got some help with my welcome series in the winter, and I put it out right before I went on a big trip, and I was just like, this just needs to get done. And I talked to somebody about it, and I just had them read what I had done before, and they're like, your personality isn't even in here. And I, you know, my. I. I have a pretty big personality. Like, most people think I'm taller than I am. And I think it's because, like, if. If you include the personality, it's much more than five foot five, you know, like, it's just how it is, you know? And so it had to be, like, I had to go through and make it sound more like me. Well, when I led the training to my membership last week about how to craft, like, the most compelling email sequences, I told them, which is very true.

I felt like I almost had to leave my body and write it as if it was for a client, you know, and that could be really hard. But, like, that's kind of how it works with a lot of us is like, I can write copy all day long for a client, I can write headlines, I can do all kinds of stuff. And then I sit down to do my own thing, and I'm like, what? I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. I haven't put two sentences together in my life, you know, and it's really hard. And I think there are a lot of people who feel that way. And I think that part of it is, if you feel that way about marketing, there are people who will teach you how to do marketing in a way that makes sense to you, in a way that's sustainable. Meaning you're not going to burn yourself out and you're not going to feel like you have to do all the things. And I think that is what is one of the most important gems you could find is for some of these areas of your business that, you know, you need support is like, find somebody who can make it manageable so that everything is in balance.

Speaker B [00:19:08]:
Absolutely. It's so funny because I just realized I have not seen you in person since we met. I thought we had seen. We were supposed to be together at a few events and they got canceled during or like, they went virtual or canceled.

Speaker A [00:19:24]:
And I'm like, you're only five.

Speaker B [00:19:26]:
Five. Like that. I'm sorry, that's just a total aside there.

Jen McFarland [00:19:31]:
Yeah.

Speaker B [00:19:31]:
This is why I should write down what I wanted to say. Because, like, that just. I was like, my brain's like, no way.

Jen McFarland [00:19:37]:
What? Yeah, I went and got photos a couple weeks ago, and my friend Nick, they were like, I always thought you were taller. I'm like, because. Because they're walking and they're walking really fast, and I'm like, hey, hey, short legs back here. And they're like, what? And I'm like, you know, and they're from New York and so they walk really fast anyway. And I'm like, I'm only five foot five. And they said the same thing. Like, oh, you seem so much taller. I'm like, that's just my personality.

Speaker B [00:20:07]:
Don't worry about it 100%. Well, so going back to actually the pertinent stuff, even though that was just. I'm sorry, I couldn't not go there. You know, like you said, when you go to write something, I think the other piece of that is we can show up so easily for others, and to show up for ourselves is much, much harder. And I know, like, I'm guessing you had the same experience. It's like when you go to do it for yourself, it's like my brain just feels like kind of overwhelmed and it feels like it short circuits sometimes. Like, I can't. It's not even possible. And. Yeah, so, yeah, that's why.

Jen McFarland [00:20:44]:
That's what I mean. When I was like, I never put two sentences together. Like, it's like you kind of forget. And it's also, you know, and you can speak to this way more than I can. Like, it's all of that emotional stuff that comes in, I think, I mean, experientially in working with clients and working with myself. It's. It's kind of like when you go to like. Like, I remember when I hired movers to move us and they had professional packers come in and they packed our whole house in like two hours and we were gone. But if you've ever gone to move your own stuff, like, don't you go through everything and you have all these memories and you do all of, you know, and it takes a long time, right?

And it's the same thing when you go to do your own marketing or when you are tending to your business. You're like, go through the Rolodex of all the things you remember and, oh, this was really hard once. Or this is how I did it once. And all that stuff can really weigh you down. Sometimes you just need to be like, eh. And like, pretend you're a professional mover or a professional marketer, you know, and just clear it out. But it can be a really big challenge. It can be. It can be difficult. And I think that that's one of the reasons working with people or being a member of a group can really help you navigate that you feel less alone and you also feel like you have the support to like, move through some of that.

Speaker B [00:21:57]:
Yeah. Cut through the noise. So let's talk about some options people have. So we, we know we want it to be sustainable. We, we know we have to. I think we know we have to make it for ourselves. Whatever our capacity is, whatever our bandwidth is. Being thoughtful that if you don't have a team, you're wearing multiple hats. And I find again, working with so many people that it's like, but I'm supposed to do this much. So it feels like a failure again. So that's the all or nothing. But what, where would you say to start for people if they're like, okay, I only have, you know, this much capacity. What should I do to really, what is the best bang for my buck, marketing wise?

Jen McFarland [00:22:46]:
Yeah, I would say whatever you think your capacity is most of the time, cut that by half.

Speaker B [00:22:51]:
Exactly.

Jen McFarland [00:22:53]:
Like, just if I'm honest, like. And that's one of the, that's one of the places where I get a lot of pushback. Like, and we do quarterly marketing strategy planning in my membership. And then I do it also, of course, with individual clients. And I get a lot of pushback because people are like, well, I have this business goal and this business goal and this business goal. I'm like, you don't have bandwidth for that. What's the number one goal? And we just try to clear it because people oftentimes take on too much and it's rare. I mean, there are some people who, you don't ever give the cut 50% because, like, there are some people who like, don't want to do any marketing or don't, don't push themselves hard enough. So I want to honor that. That's a reality for some people. But many people who own small businesses and they have growth goals and they have their.

They do tend to be a little driven and want to like, really push themselves. And they tend to, especially women, which is who I work with, women and femme people, they're pushing themselves really hard and they want to do all of the things immediately. And it's really hard to focus on too much stuff at the same time. If you don't have a team and you don't have a big budget and you don't have piles of support, you have to really be clear about your priorities and what are your top priorities. And then after that, it's like, once you know your priorities, then it's. Then the marketing stuff comes in a lot. That's one of the problems a lot of people have anyway is they put marketing in the wrong order of everything else. Like if you don't, if you're not clear about where your business is going or what it is that you want to do, like, it's. It's not time, you know, that's why, like, when I teach marketing foundations, you know, social media is not the first thing you should do.

Why start talking to people when you don't know your messaging? Why start putting stuff out there when it could be like the wrong, wrong quote, unquote, wrong thing, or not really what you're about? Just because it's the easiest way. Some people think social media is so easy, and it's not really. It's much easier when you know who your customers are, what your key points are and what you're promoting, what's most important.

Speaker B [00:25:13]:
Yeah. And I'm sure you find this, because I've had this with quite a few clients too, where they're talking about social media. Or I'm gonna hire somebody, I'm gonna outsource social media like you did. And then. And I'm like, well, why? Like, they have zero strategy around the social media, and their website's not. Like, they should spend time on their website. Like, I'm gonna say it in a nice way. I'm like, you. Where you send people, it's kind of like doing ads. You know, when I talk to people doing, like, Google Ads, I'm like, if you send it to a crappy site, it's not going to help you. You just have to.

Jen McFarland [00:25:52]:
Right.

Speaker B [00:25:52]:
You're paying more for eyeballs and it's not going to convert.

Speaker A [00:25:56]:
Right.

Speaker B [00:25:57]:
I feel like the foundation is your website. I don't know if you agree with that or.

Jen McFarland [00:26:03]:
Yeah, I mean, it's part of it. I mean, that said, I do know people. I worked with a client who had been in business since 1991. This was during the pandemic, and they had their first website ever that wasn't just a landing page. It is very unusual, though. And actually, when I brought the designer on, they were like, is this guy for real? Like, there's no website here. And they say they've been in business forever. So, like, even somebody like that, like, there are still people who are gonna. Because it's your landing spot, you know. That said, I do think that you need some. And it's the techy part.

You do need some tech tools in place to kind of help you manage things before the website. But yeah, the website's one of the first things. I mean, you need a place that you own that's not owned by a big tech company. Like Facebook or LinkedIn or Google. Like you need a spot that you own where you control the messaging and that you're able to, that you own fully and can edit so that you're able to like adjust the messaging as you, as you go, you know, and can really test what works. And that's the thing that's one of my claim to fame, it got me in a documentary which I think is finally going to be released at the end of the year, is that I wrote this blistering blog post about click funnels because it's like $200 a month and they're marketing to brand new business owners who don't even need a sales page, let alone like a funnel.

And the whole point I made in the documentary is all that a sales funnel is, is your sales process moved online. And it doesn't have to be like something really complicated, but it has to be something so that you send some, somebody someplace that makes sense. And that's the problem with like social media first is that if you don't have a place to send them, like you said, it doesn't make any sense. Ads, you know, you have to have a place where the messaging is clear and you don't need clickfunnels for that.

Speaker B [00:28:01]:
You just don't, you know, where were you in like. Well, let's see, it was how many years ago when I paid a thousand bucks for clickfunnels? I mean, it was a long time ago and yes, did not use it once because I was not ready for it.

Jen McFarland [00:28:15]:
Right. I mean, you know, now you would be more ready for it, but you've since developed like a whole suite of tools, you know. But really clickfunnels is good if you have a team, you know, now everybody's talking about go high level. It's not as sleazy as clickfunnels in terms of their sales tactics, but the product itself is not built for the typical small business owner. And now what you're seeing is the same thing similar to clickfunnels where everybody's trying to do their resell, affiliate licensing.

And it's really making everything, it's really making everything very cloudy and very difficult for people to know what they actually need. When Go High level. Go High level is great for people like me. If you're running like a marketing, you know, agency of some kind, you know, it works really well for that. But it's not a typical business owner tool, you know, and it's being sold that way. And that's what makes marketing so confusing. For people is, you know, everybody's hearing now, well, I have to jump on that tool. No, you don't. You need to have a solid platform where you're communicating your offers clearly with a clear call to action. That's either to schedule an appointment with you or buy the product. And that's it.

Speaker B [00:29:37]:
Exactly. I was like, and that goes back to why there's so many times when I'm on a coaching call with someone and I'm like, well, why are you doing that? My two things I say a lot are, what's your rush? And why are you doing that? Not again. In a very loving, caring way of like, I want to understand why you're doing something. But there are so many times where it's like, but why? And they're like, because I, because I saw something or I attended a summit or whatever. And I'm like, okay, so let's, let's again go back to foundation. My side note is this is my soapbox. Yes, you can have a business without a website and make money, but like Jen said, that is so, like, rare. And I know there for every time you say this, people come out and.

Speaker A [00:30:26]:
They'Re like, oh, you don't need to.

Speaker B [00:30:28]:
I have, you know, I make a hundred thousand a year and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, for the most part, no. And I'm just going to tell you, they don't have consistency. Also, I've come to think, like, many of them are just outright lying.

Jen McFarland [00:30:41]:
But yeah, I mean, this client Sunil's really successful.

Speaker B [00:30:45]:
No, that's some great things.

Jen McFarland [00:30:47]:
But like, but this very. It's very rare, you know, and I look at some of the stuff that they were putting out before and I was like, you know, but it worked. It worked for them. And, but the reason it worked, it works and worked for them is because they have a great deal of charisma and they spend a lot of time getting to know people through networking. Like, that's their whole jam is networking. So, like, they've already made that personal connection. So if, if you're sending someone to a landing page, they've already got the know like and trust factor that many of my clients don't have when they first come to me. You know, a lot of times we make these assumptions that people will leap from a platform like social media straight to buying, when really it's a, it's a dance, it's a conversation that takes a little bit longer than that.

And that's where the consistency piece really comes in, you know, what are we trying to do and why? What's the timeline? Because depending on the timeline, that's where things like paid ads come into play, sometimes a little bit ahead of maybe where you're ready for it, you know. But, yeah, I mean, there is. There is an order. A lot of the work that I've done here with Prosper Portland's Inclusive Business Resource Network, it's a government contract I've had now for five or six years. A lot of that work is about that order of operations that we go through with clients about. Here's how marketing works. Here's the order in which you need to, you know, develop and adopt certain things if you're going to be successful. And it really clarifies things for a lot of people and it makes it a lot easier. Because the thing of it is, like, even though marketing has changed a ton over the last six years, fundamentally how you plan a strategy has not. The tactics for how you get there have changed.

Now, we use AI for some things, and it didn't really exist six years ago, but the idea of how you craft a strategy and how you need to be consistent and sustainable within the bounds of how much money you have, how many people you have, none of that has changed. It's all the same. And everybody says that I'm some beginner marketer. I'm not. But I talk about things in a way that's so approachable that people think that I'm just a beginner marketer. And it's like, no, I think that you need to understand it so, you know the decisions that you're making and the impacts that it has. And I don't need to talk above people's heads because my whole point is I want people to not be overwhelmed or lost. And if your marketer makes you feel like that, get somebody else, because it doesn't have to be that way.

Speaker B [00:33:30]:
Yeah. And actually, I know we had this discussion before because I had a client who had a bad experience with their web developer. And I find the people who are talking over your heads actually know less. And that that's where, like, the more time I spent with you, I was like, oh, damn, you know, some stuff like, you are really good at this. And. And it was like, yeah, if you. You can communicate things in such a clear, straightforward way, and like, people want to be wooed with big terminology, but usually those people have no clue what they're doing.

Jen McFarland [00:34:08]:
Yeah, A lot of them don't. Yeah. Or they don't. Or they know what worked for them. And that's really the. One of the other things before you go hire a marketer is like, can I talk to your clients? Is there, do you have a case study? Do you have like, you know, because you, you want to know. Like, because somebody can sound really smart but if they've never done it and a lot of us stay like in our own lane. Like there are certain services that I can make advising but I would never implement it for somebody. Like I can tell like for example, I can be like, you should do Pinterest ads. I don't do Pinterest ads. You know, like, I mean, but I know it when I see it, you know, like I know when, when something is a good idea and I can advise it, but I'm not going to be the person to, to push all the buttons, you know. And, and that's the thing to look out for too are people who say they can do everything. Like it's, it's such a big discipline marketing that it's not. There's no one expert for everything.

Speaker B [00:35:08]:
100%.

Jen McFarland [00:35:09]:
Yeah.

Speaker B [00:35:10]:
So if we're thinking about okay, the person is like the business owner is saying okay, I need to create a marketing, you know, plan and I need it to be sustainable and they feasibly have a website. And I'm sure then you would also say like does the website do its job? Does it have good SEO? Like let's presume.

Jen McFarland [00:35:32]:
Let's presume it does.

Speaker B [00:35:33]:
Let's presume they took your master class. Which by the way is, is recorded. So if you join the inner circle, you can have it.

Jen McFarland [00:35:41]:
Oh my gosh.

Speaker B [00:35:42]:
Let's say they did your master classes and they have really nailed their customer like speaking to their customer and their SEO, what would be the next thing you would recommend? And I know that's hard given that it's not a. Like I don't have. You can't ask them what is your goal? Probably. But what would you say is the next step?

Jen McFarland [00:36:03]:
I mean after a solid website and they usually run in tandem is email marketing. On average, for every dollar you put into email marketing, small business owner gets $40 back. So and people say, oh, email's dead, blah blah blah. It's not. If you run a product based business or you're going direct to consumer meaning not business, not your clients aren't other businesses. Then you really need email marketing SMS or text messages. Because like Apple and Google, like there have been all these privacy constraints that have made it harder to get into inboxes. If people have a Apple email or Gmail account versus like a Google Workspace or Office 365 email. That said, like, people, if, if they subscribe, which is the only way to do email marketing, they do want to hear from you, so why not email them? They're a captive audience. They've likely bought from you or they're interested in you. Message them and you're still going to get more returns on that than you would if you did social media. And then don't forget to use social media to build your list. Like, I did a, I did a test one month. I do tests all the time, like, to back up what I'm saying. So then I can tell clients, like, I did a test. Like.

Speaker B [00:37:35]:
It'S data.

Jen McFarland [00:37:36]:
Yeah, it's just data, you know, And I'm like, yeah, that's what the stats say. But then like, I did a test on my own social media, and boy, I'll tell you, if once a week you say, subscribe to my email, guess what people do? They subscribe to your email list, you know, and then so it would be like, have a good website, have a solid SEO, make sure you're communicating with your customers, and then back that up with email marketing. And most of the time, if you're not emailing people at all, then it's like, okay, well, can we agree to like monthly? Like, can we just, can we just start there, you know, and then can we build up from there? Because people get really concerned about emailing too much. But most of the time, I find people don't email often enough.

Speaker B [00:38:21]:
A hundred percent. Yeah, I know we feel like we're bothering people, but if people want to hear from you. I have people who email all the time and I never unsubscribe because I do want to see some of their stuff. I just, sometimes I'm like, oh my God, that's too much, you know, But. But I just deleted or whatever. Well, let's face it, I don't delete it because I just scroll down, keep going above the folds. But.

Jen McFarland [00:38:46]:
But I would ask how many emails you have, but it would probably give me heart palpitations.

Speaker B [00:38:50]:
Would give you heart palpitations. But yeah, like, people say subscribe with people they want to hear from.

Jen McFarland [00:38:57]:
Absolutely 100%. You know, I'd also say that, like, you know, having your Google business profile is really important. And then claiming all of your social media profiles and picking one or two, like, you don't have to be present everywhere. That's one of the places where people really overwhelm themselves, is they Feel like they need to do a full omnichannel approach to social media, which is like, I have to be everywhere all at once. And like, most small businesses don't have the energy or the staffing to be good at all of it. So you need to pick and choose. And there are all kinds of places where you can research, you know, where your people are. I suggest, you know, polling your actual customers, too, to find the best spot.

Speaker B [00:39:44]:
That's great.

Speaker A [00:39:45]:
Yeah.

Speaker B [00:39:45]:
And like you said, make sure, though, you actually take the. The real estate. I can't think of the word. What's the word? When you. When you take. Like, if I go on Instagram and I claim it. Claim? Yeah, there's. There's a word that's like, on the tip of my tongue. Stupid. Agnosia. But, like, I claimed all of it. Like, I have my Twitters for, like, the different businesses I've started, I've claimed them. I never use Twitter. It's too overwhelming. I mean, X or whatever, but, you know, it's like, too overwhelming. But I want to make sure that somebody else can't take it.

Jen McFarland [00:40:20]:
Absolutely. Yeah. I can't even get into my ex for women Conquer biz. It's there. I think that at one point it had two factor on it, and then after Elon Musk bought it, now you can't do two factor unless you pay for it. And I'm like, interesting. Not even sure if I can remember the password to set up too fa. You know, like, it's kind of like I'm not going to pay for it just so I can figure out the password.

Speaker B [00:40:46]:
That's hilarious. We were about out of time, but remind me to tell you the story about how I reported myself to Twitter.

Jen McFarland [00:40:54]:
That sounds like a great story.

Speaker B [00:40:56]:
It's so bad. Back when it was still Twitter. But yeah, I'm like, oh, it took me a couple days. I figured it out. I was like, oh, I just reported myself. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, yeah, I feel like this. I like that we're having this conversation about sustainability because I do think it's important because it is. That all or nothing of, like, it's too much. I can't deal with it. So I just want to bury my head in the sand and not deal with it. But as we see as business has been shifting more and more, we need to have consistency in our marketing and our sales processes to ensure viability as a business.

Jen McFarland [00:41:38]:
Yeah. Well, I have a phrase up here. I keep meaning to write a blog post about it and it says, you don't have to do anything. Meaning if you don't want to do video, you don't have to do video, you don't have to do anything, but you have to do something.

Speaker B [00:41:54]:
I love that. All right, I'm going to, you know, as your accountability coach, I'm going to make sure that that's done in the next. Kidding. I'm joking.

Jen McFarland [00:42:04]:
I know. I should do it.

Speaker B [00:42:05]:
You should. I'm going to.

Jen McFarland [00:42:07]:
That's the thing about marketing. You don't have to do anything, but you have to do something.

Speaker B [00:42:11]:
I love that. Well, that is a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much, Jen. And I think you're. Every month Jen is teaching marketing training and is available for Q and A coaching, general coaching around marketing. And next month I'm pretty sure we're going to focus on something email based. I don't know. We still have. Our meeting isn't until the 5th, so. Okay, yeah, so we'll figure that out. But I'm just letting you guys know, you can get a little taste or you can head on over to Jen's membership where she does this all the time.

Jen McFarland [00:42:50]:
That's right.

Speaker A [00:42:52]:
Remember, with the right strategy and plan, you can grow your business without overworking. You don't have to do it alone either. You can join other ambitious business owners this Friday for quarterly goal planning. So grab your spot now and don't delay.