Brilliant Small Business Networking Ideas from Ramon Ray

Maelisa Hall [00:00:23]:
Welcome to season 5 of the My Biz Bestie Podcast. I'm Melissa Hall.

Amber [00:00:27]:
And I'm Amber Hawley.

Maelisa Hall [00:00:28]:
And today we're so excited to share what I know is going to be an amazing interview with Ramon Ray. Ramon, welcome.

Ramon Ray [00:00:37]:
Hey, thank you all so much for having me. I appreciate it, Amber. Appreciate it, Melissa. It's always good to reconnect, be here, and share with your awesome community. So thanks.

Maelisa Hall [00:00:45]:
Yeah. And we, we met Ramon the first time at QuickBooks Connect. Yeah, they actually do an event at QuickBooks headquarters.

Ramon Ray [00:00:52]:
Not on the CD, you're on the online in the cloud somewhere.

Maelisa Hall [00:00:55]:
Yeah. And I don't even remember what you were speaking on, honestly. He was definitely the highlight of the conference, or it was like a one-day event. Definitely the highlight for, I think, for both of us. And that's saying a lot because Michael Phelps was there that time too.

Ramon Ray [00:01:11]:
Well, that's easy. He's just a swimmer.

Amber [00:01:13]:
I know. Whatever.

Ramon Ray [00:01:16]:
Michael Phelps.

Amber [00:01:17]:
Gold medals, blah, blah.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:19]:
I mean, but it was just like your energy and everything just blew us away. I think You know, I think you were talking about something with like email marketing or reaching out to people in that way. Maybe funnels.

Amber [00:01:32]:
Like multiple streams of income. 'Cause I remember asking something.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:35]:
Or I could be way off and it could be multiple streams.

Ramon Ray [00:01:37]:
Probably not off. Email, multiple streams.

Amber [00:01:40]:
Something. Something email house related. But it was wonderful. So we had that. And then we ran into you again at Social Media Marketing World. So we, you know, fangirl stalk you a little bit.

Ramon Ray [00:01:51]:
It's mutual.

Maelisa Hall [00:01:54]:
But Ramon's energy is just like amazing. But it's not that, it's not just that, because there are people who are like really inspiring, which is what I felt like. You go to an event like QuickBooks Connect and they kind of bring in these big names like Michael Phelps, and these are people who can be really inspiring. But I also don't think of Michael Phelps when I'm like, I want to get like in-depth marketing advice, right? So it's like, okay, there's a little bit of that inspiration. Yeah, awesome.

Amber [00:02:17]:
Right.

Maelisa Hall [00:02:18]:
But when you are talking, you're always really, really bringing in these amazing points. So you have both of those things going for you. So if you ever get the opportunity to hear Ramon speak, do it, because he's an amazing speaker. But Ramon, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Ramon Ray [00:02:36]:
Sure. Other than the fact that I like burnt pancakes and bacon every Saturday morning with high fructose corn syrup and 2 glasses of cold milk, other than that fact, really 2 things, I guess, about me in a nutshell. One, I have this community, as you all do, community of budding entrepreneurs, small business owners, very small business owners that look to me for advice on how to start their businesses, how to grow their businesses. That's one side of what I do. The other side is I work with large brands who want to reach small businesses and often they engage me to do Twitter chats, Facebook Live interviews, represent them in some way or another. A little bit more about that. That's what I do today, but I have started 4 companies. I've sold 2 companies. I probably will sell 1 or 2 more before I die, which may be in 20 or 30 years. I've authored a few books. One is called Celebrity CEO. And really, I just, I love having fun. I love hanging out with cool people like Amber and Melissa and sharing. I think that mutual sharing of knowledge and information to help small businesses grow, it's tough, it's not easy. I go through my own challenges, as I'm sure you all have. So, this mutual sharing and not taking ourselves too seriously, that's in a nutshell what I'm all about.

Amber [00:03:39]:
I love it. I also love that you're such a planner. You even like predict your death date. I think you need to give yourself a little more time on the opposite side though, like— Fair enough.

Ramon Ray [00:03:49]:
I did say 20 to 30 years. Let me rephrase, 30 to 40 years. I misspoke, 30 to 40.

Maelisa Hall [00:03:54]:
Yeah, manifest that.

Amber [00:03:56]:
Yeah, we got to manifest a lot later. So, we need this much longer. This is good. Awesome. In addition to being the king of social, you also are a master networker, which is why we wanted to have you on because to have people who— sometimes I think small business owners don't really get how important networking is. And there's so much value in it, I just, mean, even for building your business, but like you said, sometimes it's a struggle. So having that support in that and also the opportunities it brings you.

Ramon Ray [00:04:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's so important. I mean, I think that networking is an art and a science, I think. And then we can go to this however depth you want, but I think that I love networking. I think, A, I love people. I must say, I think that's first and foremost. Maybe that's part of why it is. I just, I love people. I'm the kind of person that construction's something I enjoy. I don't know how to do it. You can tell when I build things, it's crooked. And OSHA will shut it down. But point being is that I just love people. I love finding out how things— I think that's where the networking starts. But then also I just find the serendipity. I don't know who I'm sitting with, who I'm speaking with, who they are, or maybe I can just help them. So it's not just also how can you help me, but also maybe I can help them in some way.

Maelisa Hall [00:05:06]:
Yeah. And it's so— we had an interview with Betsy Furler last season who talked about networking and she said exactly the same thing. She's someone who's one of our friends. And last season we were like, hey, let's talk with Betsy about networking. 'Cause she's kind of a master networker. And that's exactly what she said. I just love people. And so, I really want to talk with people. But can you say more about that? Like, what does that mean for you? Like, if you are, and how does that look like? Are you kind of in that mindset when you're going to a business event? Are you like that when you go to the grocery store? You know, how does that play out in your life on a daily basis?

Ramon Ray [00:05:41]:
Great question. So, I think on the personal side, just, and again, you can help me illustrate this better. My English is bad, Melissa and Amber, and my brain is fuzzy sometimes. You all can help me How do I align this better to make it make sense? I think on the personal side, to get some anecdotes to be clear, you know, again, in my community that I live in here, I'll see the guys, few gals, guys in construction and doing what they do, pouring cement. One, the curiosity, how does it work? How does cement work? How does it pour? You know, that happens to be my interest. I'll just stop and ask them. Or my Uber drivers. Do you know how many drivers I've met? A guy had no fingers, but like, he was missing several digits and driving the steering wheel. We had a 30-minute conversation on him being an interpreter for the US forces in Afghanistan. So that's an example, I think, of the personal side. No business at all, this was just in person. Or maybe the 17-year-old at the local grocery store. When did you start working here? Or, hey, I noticed you didn't look me in the eye and say thank you. Just a tip, you may get more tips or you may not get fired if you smile. So that's the personal side.

Amber [00:06:42]:
I love that.

Maelisa Hall [00:06:43]:
That's awesome.

Ramon Ray [00:06:46]:
And on the business side, we can go back to that if you want, but on the business, so that's the authentic, I think everybody has to, I think sometimes we're our worst mirrors, but I think it's the authentic love of humans. So that's the one angle, that's just who I am, everybody's different. And I think on the business side, let's take the anecdote, I think Amber saw one of my latest email newsletters on the plane. I don't do it purposely now, oh, here's my card, I can't really, here's my card, sir. If I'm standing in line, the United Airlines doesn't yet know they should roll out the plane and have me have my own chartered flight. They don't yet know they should do that for me. Till they know that, I have to fly with other people. So I fly with other people, sadly. But while I'm flying commercial flights, I'm tongue-in-cheek in case those didn't hear, understand it. But the point is, is that there's a guy behind me, gal in front of me. We're in line for 10 minutes, 12 minutes, whatever it is, standing in line. Why am I not turning around, just smiling? Not in a creepy like that, but, you know, turning around and saying, "Hey, I'm Ramon. I'm going to San Francisco or going to Austin for South by Southwest. What brings you here?" "Oh, one of a few things. I'm going to South by Southwest too. What brings you here?" Whatever. Or, "Oh, that's good. Okay." Or, "What's South by Southwest?" My point being, that's why I do it also. It's just that interest of people, but you never know who you're gonna meet and how they can— you can add value to each other's world. So, that's kind of what I go through on the plane. That's another example. I don't do it on the train. Train so much, train is different, but on a plane, I'm gonna be sitting with another human for 3 hours, 4 hours, 8 hours. Come on, the least I can do is just turn, "Hey, I'm Ramon." I used to say, you know, "What's your name?" But I stopped that because I realized, "Hey, my name is Ramon, welcome." That's enough for any sane human in a good way. Everybody's different. "Hey, I'm Bob, I'm Melissa." And that's all I expect pretty much. If they want more, we can go further, but you can sense that. And I don't talk their ear off because I wouldn't want that, but that's kind of the essence of me with networking. I can go on to other scenarios. Especially in a public setting, that's how I do it.

Amber [00:08:42]:
Well, and what you're talking about is the art. And I think this is the thing you where, know, there are so many of us, I I mean, think Melissa and I consider ourselves people people people persons. Absolutely. too, I don't know how to say that.

Ramon Ray [00:08:53]:
How we met.

Amber [00:08:55]:
Yeah, exactly. ENFPs, that's, like you know, we're going to put ourselves out there. We talk to all the strangers, everything. But there are people out there that it really does overwhelm them, the thought of that. And they may like people, but they feel very scared to do it and put themselves out there. And I think they do worry about coming across creepy, but that's why I do think it's an art of you have to listen to people and pay attention to their response. You can't just launch into your, you know, here's my spiel. And so I think what you're talking about is that authentic, like, connecting with people. Yes.

Ramon Ray [00:09:27]:
And I think that if it helps people, you know, talking to those who are shy, let's say we can go there if you want, you know, let's pretend, let's say that scenario. I think there's a few different types of networking. Maybe this is not a, you know, I'm not a doctor in it, but this is my personal observations of what I've gone through. There's event networking, which maybe we can talk about a bit. How do you do that? Because that I think is a must-ish. You're going to your local Chamber of Commerce, you have no time, in my opinion, you're wasting your membership, wasting the $300 a year you're spending, whatever, if you're going there just sitting, waiting for, you know, Melissa to talk about whatever she's gonna talk about, or Ramon or Amber. You're wasting your time. You must, with a caveat, network there. In fairness, on a plane, on a train, in an Uber, I wouldn't ding you too bad of not opening your mouth there. That's just me, but I think we can talk about the first one if you want about at a business event, what I would do there, if that's helpful.

Amber [00:10:15]:
Yes.

Ramon Ray [00:10:16]:
Okay, cool. So at a business event, I would say a few things. I would say, one, why do you want to do it? Of course, you're meeting people. Two, it's not just who you can suck money from, but what's the other human, how you can help, how they can help you. So I think we've covered that you enough, know, but overall why you're doing is important. And my quick tips, I would be, I always like to start with my challenge, my problem, who I am, and going back to, as I said, any sane human, I said kind of jokingly, but any decent person, they're gonna automatically share back. So Amber's there, she's kind of nervous, she's eating her stale you bagel, know, with the butter just, she just put on it and she thought it was butter, it really was mayonnaise, whatever it is. So I've done that I before. put, by the way, I put jelly, it was so depressing. I had just got a Whopper from Burger King. Please, Melissa, bring me back to reality because I'll lose track quickly.

Maelisa Hall [00:11:03]:
But I want to hear this.

Ramon Ray [00:11:04]:
Okay. I was hungry. I went to Burger King, got a Whopper. I opened the hot sandwich up, the steam was coming. There was ketchup on the package on my table because we had Popeyes biscuits the night before and I had ripped open the package, squeezed all of it on. And of course you suck the edge of the plastic a you bit, know, because you want to get every bit of that ketchup down. It was jelly. So I don't know how I got there.

Maelisa Hall [00:11:28]:
Amber had made a similar mistake at a networking event.

Ramon Ray [00:11:31]:
Yes. I jest a bit. But the point being here is that Amber's there standing by herself, you know, whatever it is. I go up to Amber, hey Amber, my name is My name is Ramon. I produce content for small businesses, and I'm here today to learn about how to use Twitter better. I don't know how to use it that much, and I'm here to learn. I'm looking forward to Melissa, who's going to be speaking in an hour. And what brings you here? That simple way to open it. Maybe it's too much for people, Amber, as you hinted, but we can different levels. But something like that, just you have to start, of course, to want to do it. But just do that and just share yourself. That's usually how you can open up some basic conversations to have a conversation going.

Maelisa Hall [00:12:07]:
Has this always come easily to you? Like, is this kind of just part of your personality that you've done since you were young? Is this something that you worked on building up?

Ramon Ray [00:12:15]:
Yeah, I wish I could say I was shy growing up and I had to work out how to tell people, Ramon, yeah, we get you. But no, for me, it's always been that way. In fairness, yes, I've— you're talking to the guy— you want to hear a story or two of embarrassment?

Amber [00:12:28]:
Of course.

Maelisa Hall [00:12:28]:
Okay.

Ramon Ray [00:12:29]:
Talking to the guy— the better.

Amber [00:12:30]:
Okay.

Ramon Ray [00:12:32]:
Well, I'm going to leave one of those out the conversation. But, um, but CES, those who don't know, what does it have? 100 billion people in it. CES, the Computer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, I think every whatever it is. So, you know, zillions of people every year. Michael Dell was speaking in the main theater. I had a question because I'm Ramon. So I stood up in my seat. Now this is where the billions of people, Mr. Dell, I have a question for you. I didn't know that the real bloggers and real journalists were in the back where they're supposed to be. 'Cause you can't see, and he walked away. I'm the type of person, I remember back in the day, Bill Gates, when there was Gateway Computer, some people may remember Ted and Bill Gates were at an event, launch event years ago. I had scrolled a note to Bill Gates himself. I was so proud of myself. His handler scrolled the note and took the note and threw it away. Point being, yes, Melissa, I've always been an extrovert out there. That's me, but for those who are not, you can get over it. You don't have to be as eccentric as me, standing in the rain to see Colin Powell, the former Secretary of State, you know, That's just me screaming and getting a video interview with Hillary Clinton. That's a whole story about that. But this goes back to networking. This is what I've done. But I think if you make small steps to see the why do you want to network, because you never know who you're going to meet. And on a small level, I don't believe in luck. If I'm at the Billionaire Conference of America for billionaires who make a billion dollars in a— and have billions in the bank, Do you think if I'm at the bathroom peeing in the urinal, the guy next to me has a billion dollars? Yeah, that's not luck. You follow what I'm trying to say here, you know?

Amber [00:14:09]:
We do.

Ramon Ray [00:14:10]:
Okay.

Maelisa Hall [00:14:11]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, and it kind of along those lines, so you, I would imagine, are a busy guy. You have, you know, a few things going on, right? What are you like, how are you making those decisions? Because one thing I get from you is definitely like when you attend something you're maximizing that event, right? Like, you're maximizing those opportunities, but how are you deciding which of those opportunities to invest time in, time and money in?

Ramon Ray [00:14:35]:
That's a great question. Opportunities overall, I'll talk about it. So I think there's two things, is that one, who is it? I like people, and I think that anytime you think you've arrived, you're making a mistake. Some people have arrived, Oprah, I mean, you know, whoever the example you want to give, but I think, who is it? These are my peers, my peeps, you all, right? We don't golf together or eat dinner every day, but we know each other online. I want to work with you, you want to work with me, we support each other. So I think that's an automatic yes. Who is it? I think point 2 then, what is it? So I'll give you an example if it helps to go with a no, for example. I'm often asked, I'm asked less, but Ramon, can you be on a panel? That for me is always a no. At this level of my business, a panel, it's too short amount of time for my own selfish interest, especially if it's not paid. If Amber wants to give me $100K to be on a panel, or $15K, you know, Amber, $7K too, $7K to be on a panel, I'm there. My point being, you know, is that on a panel, that, that's something I could say no to because I know it's just not worth my time, not worth the experience and maturity I have in the industry. So, if that helps kind of, I do thoughtfully look at things, but in general speaking, I guess, if it's something that I can, nonprofit work, I volunteer in the Bronx. There's an organization called NPower. They help underserved kids. I can feel myself getting ready to cry as I speak about it. Boy, I don't mind crying, but I'll just, you know, I prefer not to right now. But I think of the underserved kids there, 5 kids in a room. Nobody hardly, you know, I don't talk about it a lot. I'm sharing with it now, but it's small. So does that help kind of understand, yes or no? Who is it? What is it? Is it something that I can help a friend, help peeps do? Probably minimal for me because often I, you know, as you can imagine, I get asked to speak quite a bit, interviews and stuff. Ramon, you can get a client. I don't have clients. I want nobody at your event to reach me because most people think I have a client to do coaching. I don't. I only I only work with large brands. So that's kind of how I decide to do it, because you're right, if you don't decide and put some barriers, you'll be going crazy. But the other thing is that if I can't say yes, it's let me say yes, but not now. Literally, my team is working on stuff for March, May, April, November 2020 for me. My schedule's that packed.

Amber [00:16:58]:
I was just like, I was thinking like you put the extra in extrovert. I just love it. There's so much energy there. I mean that as a compliment.

Ramon Ray [00:17:06]:
I hear it. I take it all.

Amber [00:17:08]:
It's like, I just love it.

Maelisa Hall [00:17:09]:
But yeah, I need to make him a shirt that says that.

Amber [00:17:12]:
Yes, exactly. That'll be our next business. You know, it's important what you're saying is— I hear you saying finding the value in it. Is it a value as far as like what I've achieved in, in life and in business so that I can see that that's the right platform for me? Or is it something that's near and dear to my heart? And so I'm I want to go do it because it fills me up in that way. So it's about figuring out what gives you value.

Ramon Ray [00:17:36]:
Yes, for sure. And my other fellow speakers, I've heard people say, talking about money now, oh, I don't do this for free, or I don't do it if they're not paying this, stick to your rates, talking about things like this. And I have a lot to learn from others and I must, you know, everybody has their own way of doing things. But for me, I try to work, and maybe this goes back to networking, from a status of abundance, if that makes sense. So it's just, if I can say yes, Even if it's marginally helpful, I just believe to say yes if I can. I'd rather not go from— and some people do do this, I'm sure you've interviewed, or maybe you all do it, or you have friends who work more from it's no because I'm very detailed in my calendar. Me, I tell my team, baby, fill it up, fill it up, let's do it. That's just how I roll.

Maelisa Hall [00:18:20]:
Yeah, and I guess that's maybe where, like, if someone was an introvert, like, if you're an introvert, that might be one of the biggest differences, right? Because you're thinking more about like managing your energy. And so you're like, okay, here's my limit for how much I know I can do and still be at my best. So that's kind of just something— And I respect that.

Ramon Ray [00:18:39]:
Absolutely respect that.

Maelisa Hall [00:18:40]:
I'm also interested to hear, like, because you work with these big brands, most of our listeners are, you know, more in the small business category. And so how is— and I think it's kind of easy to see how like going to your local Chamber of Commerce or these smaller business events, how you get clients that way, right? How is your networking impacting your business working with these large brands?

Ramon Ray [00:19:05]:
Sure, absolutely. And I will address going to the chamber and networking. Just one more thing I will add is that kind of a— I wouldn't say ninja trick so much, but let me— I'll just say what it's meaning. And remind me that other question too, but going back to the chamber, the way kind of around that is that You can network with the people there, but let's say you're adding value to the chamber president, chamber executive, chamber team. That's how you get invited on the board. That's how you get invited to keynote next year. That's how you get invited to do things that everybody else is not doing. Going back to the Hillary Clinton thing is that everybody else was mobbing Hillary. I didn't go for Hillary. I went for Hillary's assistant. Everybody ignored her. There's not too many gals there who have all black on with 3 handbags, 10 BlackBerrys. I exaggerated a bit, you know, not those the little skinny heels that are uncomfortable, but those pumps that, you know, you got to work for somebody all day, you know. So I look— I, I checked her out in a good way. This girl, I was like, you know what, that's got to be Hillary's girl. She's just— and I went to her. So anyhow, I just— I chamber, you know, that's how can get you it.

Maelisa Hall [00:20:08]:
Yeah, that's the strategic part. Yeah.

Amber [00:20:10]:
Yes, that's that's the, the strategy. I was going to say, to add to that, this is something I've always said, is I— when I go to a new place or I'm joining something, or like, I I just joined a new coworking space. I always friend in a genuine way, like the maintenance staff, the office staff, the like whoever's running things because they go out of their way for you because you're so helpful and wonderful to them. Or like whoever's running an event or something like that. We always, I find there's so much value in that. And you just, I, yeah, it's maybe not the most obvious connection, but I.

Ramon Ray [00:20:44]:
Feel like it's a great name because most people also won't. So, even sometimes just a smile, you know, passing by, I was talking to somebody about that today, just passing by and saying, "Thank you for your work. I appreciate you. Thank you. You know what? Here's my trash. I really appreciate you being here and doing that." You know, I don't say all the nasty job, but that's the implied. "Thanks for being here. Thanks for taking my trash. I appreciate you. I notice you." As you said, Amber, and that's not just because, but trust me, when you're locked out or when, you know, you had a big office party, whoever is gonna come by your office and clean it up or do whatever a little bit extra for you. That's gonna happen.

Amber [00:21:16]:
I also find bringing people Starbucks helps a lot. That's actually one of my ploys. I also got their order.

Ramon Ray [00:21:22]:
Okay, but Melissa, you had asked about the working big brands. I'll address that as well. So here I think it is, Melissa. Here's how I do it and what I do. This is an anecdote, but I believe it's an anecdote that best encapsulates my funnel building, lead building, whatever you want to call it. Big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big brand. Did I say big? Yeah, big brand. The essence of what they said, Ramon, we saw your videos about burnt pancakes and bacon. I kid you not. Could you please host our big, big, big, big conference live, this, that, and the other. Point being, yes, a lot of the work I do that you all see me do, email newsletters, all that, is for my community and to educate authentically. Some of it's for us, the community that, you know, people who follow me, I follow people. I'm very cognizant of the fact that the brands are watching the 5, 10, 30 people that— so to answer your question, it's the content I produce. Brands are looking for who makes a difference. Everybody can talk about how to use Twitter. Everybody can talk about how to do this, how to do XYZ. And if somebody says, hey, we need somebody to talk for 3 hours about LinkedIn, I'm not your guy. I know tons of people, probably you all kick my butt in that. That's just not me. But we need 30-minute presentation on digital marketing, All day, because that's my specialty. So point being is that that's how I work with the brands. And going back to networking as well, similar process in networking. The sales cycle is longer, but I'm very cognizant that the brands are human and that, you know, let's say it's Melissa. Melissa's in charge of, I'll just, you know, let's call PayPal. You know, she's in charge of the marketing PayPal. If you don't like me, Melissa, Know me, trust me, maybe we laugh a little bit. I'm not doing it intentionally, that's my style. And and I, to those listening, you may not be a humor type person, that's okay, this still works for you. But for Ramon, that's how I roll, as you all know, it's humor, a little fun. So, Melissa, we make that connection. Now, when you're evaluating the 4 other people to work with, I'm gonna be at the top of your list. I probably sent you a thank you card as well. I'm probably reminding you in 3 months, in 6 months. So, if that kind of makes sense for the big brands, That— it's a similar philosophy, it's just a little more strategic because it is a brand that just happens to have a human representing it. That makes sense.

Amber [00:23:35]:
I love it. I love when people talk strategy. Can you do this all day? Well.

Ramon Ray [00:23:41]:
Listen, I don't know where this is going, but I'm going to leave it at that.

Amber [00:23:45]:
This is much better now, people, if you actually see the video on our new YouTube channel. So this will be— some of our stuff will make much more sense.

Maelisa Hall [00:23:53]:
I know, I know. You brought up follow-up, which is, I think, a huge part of networking and something that, you know, we've mentioned on the show before that that's kind of where extroverts can tend to not do as well. So maybe we're great at doing that initial connection, but the follow-up, you know, you hear the phrase, the fortune is in the follow-up, right? And that's how you're making those ongoing connections. So what are your strategies around follow-up? How are you determining— because I'm assuming you meet a lot of people when you go to an event.

Ramon Ray [00:24:20]:
Sure, absolutely.

Maelisa Hall [00:24:21]:
You're doing that on purpose, right? So, who are you choosing to follow up? How are you choosing who to follow up with? How are you doing that?

Ramon Ray [00:24:27]:
Sure. And let's talk about, I'll go back to my case, but again, those listening, you can make this for whatever you want, but I'm gonna go back to my case, the brands, because rarely would I follow up to the end user, but let's, but people can extrapolate this. The lawyer who's in a group, follow up, etc. So, here's two ways I think, and you can help me unpack this better, but two ways I think I do follow up. I've met, I'll go back, I think I've picked on Melissa enough, I'll go back to Amber now. I met Amber at a conference, she's in charge of in of charge whatever account. She's in charge of the Concapino Company, whatever that is.

Amber [00:24:56]:
Okay.

Ramon Ray [00:24:56]:
She's in charge of the corn company. Point is, what I'm trying to say is that one, Amber says, Ramon, send me a proposal, or Ramon, I'd like to work with you. I'll follow up 3 or 4 times. Now, if you're interested, of course, that goes on and we start a relationship and you pay me or we engage, whatever it is. But let's say you haven't got back to me. I probably— some people say don't do this. But I'll stop directly emailing you 3 or 4 or 5 times. But my secret weapon now is my email newsletter, because if I've correctly identified you, more likely than not, you're still going to want to receive my email newsletter. Because if you don't, then I just haven't targeted you right. You're moving on, you're out of the, the place you're working, there's no use me even going to you. But the point is, if you're still on my email list, which is very important for me, that means my name is still in front of your face. When you're ready you will buy. There could be some ways I have to switch that around, maybe I should follow up directly, but Melissa, that's really how I do it. I'll follow up with you individually. Hey Melissa, you said you want to work with me. Hey Melissa, you said you want to work with me. But if you're not getting back to me, 10th time, I don't keep doing it. Now, if you've said, if you've given me permission and said, Ramon, let's follow up later on, I don't have the budget yet, that's good, I'll keep the one-on-one. But that's kind of the two ways I handle it. It's either I'm directly emailing you or at least in my email list or you're following me in some other way because when you're ready and I know, and again, it's for me the same way, email or somehow those who I want to keep in touch with follow. That's why I may not hire them today. Maybe I won't hire them next year, but at some point, because we forget, I'm going to see them, if that makes sense. That's how I do it.

Amber [00:26:36]:
I'm going to get nitty-gritty and say, okay, do you have a CRM or do you use like old school Excel spreadsheets? Spreadsheets.

Ramon Ray [00:26:42]:
Not even spreadsheets, actually. I have Rolodexes outside of my garden, and when I want to talk to people, I just dig up— no, yes.

Amber [00:26:49]:
I have a composition notebook and I write with little letters.

Ramon Ray [00:26:52]:
But great question, I'll tell you how I use it. So I do have CRM, customer relationship management software, and there's two ways I do that to get nitty-gritty. I enjoy it, you can geek geek out, out on it. So I use one software tool, happy to talk about names if you want, but for now I don't want people to zero in on the tool because I think the tool is less important than how you're using it. So one of the tools I use is for my community management, whether it's my events or other things, you know, if they click, wait 5 days, then do this. If they don't, you guys know all that, you know, your audience may know it. For those who don't, we can dive into it. But marketing automation, one tool I use for that, because that's really marketing automation and leading people through a journey. So I use for that, that's kind of the tool I use to manage tens of thousands of people for any venture things. For my direct clients, let's call it the big brands, I don't automate them. I just can't afford to. Maybe if I learned a better way I could, but it's just for only— I have a list of about 400 of the biggest brands in the world who all know my name. You know, any tech brand, especially 80%. It's a purposeful typed email newsletter that I don't have time for. It's only when I think of something very useful for them. For example, "Ramon will be in Austin, Texas. If you'll be there at South by, shall we meet up?" Or, "Hey, listen, I was at a conference last week. 4 ways they talked about to sell to small businesses." Those gems I only put in there, and I have a high open rate. So to answer the question, I use one CRM tool to keep track of the deals I'm sending them, the proposals I'm sending. It's a very personal, kind of like my little black book or whatever example you want to— so one tool for that. The other tool, just repeating myself, is the tool more marketing automation funnel building. For the small business owners, as it were. So that's helpful. That's how I do it.

Maelisa Hall [00:28:33]:
Oh, that makes a lot of sense. And that's— I'm just like, you know, my mind is going. I'm like, thinking of all the different things you can do.

Amber [00:28:41]:
I'm a marketer, just use tools.

Ramon Ray [00:28:43]:
I'm sure you guys have a lot of ninja tools.

Maelisa Hall [00:28:47]:
But no, I think it's really— I think that makes a lot of sense too. It's something I know I didn't do in the beginning, even think about like, I started like You kind of learn about funnels and you start thinking about how to automate certain things and follow up with people in that way. But really focusing on who are those top people, who are those top people who are most likely to be my customer in whatever way that is, right? No matter what type of business you have, who are those people who are super interested in really keeping them on a more targeted list and sending them, it sounds like slightly more personal emails. Like you said, like, hey, I'm going to be in whatever state. Do you want to meet up, that kind of thing.

Amber [00:29:26]:
Right.

Ramon Ray [00:29:27]:
And that's because of how my business is, in fairness. You know, let's say a coach, she or he has, you know, 3,000 people on their email list that you can marketing automate. You know, you have a few, 3 or 4 clients you need a month or whatever the numbers are. So please do marketing automation as you wish and do what works for you. It's just for me, you know, it's, it's since the higher dollar value, let me put it that way, I think maybe the less automation really personal focus. You know, if a client's paying you $100,000 a year, trust me, call me, I'll walk to you, I'll bring you the email, you know. But you know, it's a $19 program. I think most people would agree that you can do some automation. Hey, thanks for signing up, things like that. And people still feel special. It's the communication that matters.

Maelisa Hall [00:30:11]:
Yeah, well, and I'm kind of on this whole like super fans kick because Pat Flynn released his Super Fans book. And then I've just kind of been like like, you know how you, you follow certain people and then you kind of go back to certain people? And Seth Godin, I've been like seriously diving into like every possible thing I've never looked at of his before. When you listen to smart people talk about how they've been really successful, a lot of times it's that discernment and focusing on the right customers, right? You know, and really focusing on like, this is how I can serve people, and I'm just going to keep contacting and staying in touch and focusing a small, small subgroup of these people who you might, know, be in contact with me or know who I am.

Ramon Ray [00:30:55]:
And it's important because I think you have to realize that business is in seasons, correct? I mean, you take a look at any group, A, people don't have the budget today, but they will use you next year. Some people are not a fit for you. Some people are ready to use you right now. Some people have the budget, but they already hired somebody. So I think that's the importance of funnels and marketing is that, assuming you're right, everybody won't need you all the time or at this time. Pardon me, hence the reason for, I think we said before, follow up, follow up, follow up. It's so essential, assuming you've targeted right. If you're the guy who's talking to the girl who hates shaved head guys, dude, just stop talking to her. It's just not gonna work.

Amber [00:31:29]:
Time to move on.

Ramon Ray [00:31:30]:
Yeah, it is, time to move on. I feel sorry for those guys. I was on the train once, this was years ago, and this guy was talking to this girl, talking to this girl in a nice way, nothing stalkerish borderline. But afterwards, I couldn't help it. I just had to ask her, And she just told me, she said, you know what, the moment he opened his mouth, I wasn't interested. Because it was just interesting watching the dynamic for about 10 minutes. He was— every joke was the one. She made one mistake, I think, at her point. She kind of giggled a bit. So I was like, no.

Maelisa Hall [00:31:58]:
You're like, you just gave him a crumb.

Ramon Ray [00:32:00]:
Yes, exactly.

Amber [00:32:02]:
Nervous laughter.

Ramon Ray [00:32:03]:
Exactly.

Amber [00:32:05]:
Exactly.

Ramon Ray [00:32:06]:
It probably was. But you know, as guys, that was like, yes.

Amber [00:32:09]:
He's like, I am in.

Ramon Ray [00:32:11]:
Yes, exactly.

Amber [00:32:14]:
Yes, and that's why people people need to learn how to read other people. That's a good skill to facilitate.

Ramon Ray [00:32:19]:
Very true.

Amber [00:32:21]:
Oh, I love it.

Maelisa Hall [00:32:22]:
Well, do you have any, like, kind of— I feel like, you know, we could talk about this all day, but thinking about kind of wrapping up, do you have any, like, final tips for, for that person who is feeling like this is something they need to focus on and, and like, okay, this is my goal, I really want to work on putting myself out there more That ended up being like a huge focus of last season was just like the more you're putting yourself out there, the more opportunities you're going to get. And you never know where that's going to be. And one thing I get from you telling your failure stories, right, is that it doesn't all— you can't expect that you're going to put yourself out there and just constantly get this positive reaction. Like sometimes someone's going to rip it up and not pass your note on to Bill Gates, but it's still worth doing. Right? So, so for that person where that fear is kind of what continues to hold them back, know, you do you have any tips for them?

Ramon Ray [00:33:15]:
Sure. I think a few things. I think one, do start. And kudos to you, person listening to us, Amber and Melissa, today for being willing to take that step. So do that. I think that's one. Two, be yourself, assuming you're a decent person. If you're like a psychopath, don't be yourself. But if you're just a regular nice person, be yourself. If you're not, you know, hey, I'm not like Ramon, don't be me. If you're not like Amber, not like Melissa, be you, you know, and you'll be more comfortable doing that too. I think 3 is important to make it not about you. So, if you're just yourself and thinking just how can I be human and smile and connect with another human, that's 3. 4, I don't believe in serendipity or luck. I believe in serendipity, but meaning my point, the closer you are to being in the right pool where people can help you or you can help them, the more times you talk to people will be a success, if that kind of makes sense in a convoluted way. That's 4. I think 5, it sounds corny, but I have some pretty cool business cards. I think I have them behind me, so I'm not gonna get up because I'm not sure what I have under on there. Oh yeah, here it is. That came out wrong, but anyways, so this is a card, and I have 5 of these cards with my face and different pictures. Point being, sounds small, but in networking, every time I go like this or go pick a card, you know, because most people, as you know, have the boring card. I won't pull up one. Well, here, I'll pull up one from Norwegian Cruise Line. Just, you know, it's kind of, point being, it's just, It's hard to say. What's that?

Amber [00:34:41]:
Who cares if they're pissed?

Ramon Ray [00:34:42]:
Exactly, you know, sorry Norwegian, it was a great cruise I had with you. Please send those free tickets to me, Amber, and Melissa, 'cause I'm on their show. But the point being is that, have a good collateral, but those are the 5 things I would say. Be yourself, know why you're doing it, it's not about you, be helpful, I think breathe, be in the right place to do it as well, and just make the step. And I think if you can find what makes you comfortable, how to start, maybe that's the biggest one big tip, like I do in the airplanes, I just simply turn, hey, my name is Ramon, "Have a great day, and it's good to be here." You never know. You know, start there, maybe. So that's what I would say.

Amber [00:35:16]:
I think that's a good note, just practice. And maybe if you practice on just quote unquote regular people, because everybody is, but if you practice where the stakes aren't high, it just builds that confidence, and it builds that skill set. And then hopefully when you're trying to stalk down Hillary Clinton or whoever, you have a little more finesse.

Ramon Ray [00:35:38]:
Right. And remember that you will be disappointed. People will ignore you. You will fail. So I say that because if you go into it knowing, okay, I'm gonna start networking. This is my first time. Ramon's gonna say, I don't wanna talk to you. I hate people in blue sweaters. I hate you too.

Amber [00:35:53]:
Move on. Yes. I have failed many a time. And like, I couldn't get very close to Martha Stewart at the first QuickBooks Connect. I really tried, but I did take a selfie with her. She was like not looking at me, but I was— she was like signing a book and I was like, "Look, I'm with Martha!" She was way back there. I mean, sometimes you just got to take it, you know?

Maelisa Hall [00:36:16]:
Like a— maybe we could call that like a photobomb selfie?

Amber [00:36:19]:
It was a photobomb selfie. She photobombed me.

Ramon Ray [00:36:22]:
I'll tell you— should I tell you a 30-second story, Melissa? Is there time for one more?

Amber [00:36:26]:
Of course.

Ramon Ray [00:36:26]:
Okay. I was in India about 2 years ago with Ivanka Trump. I first interviewed the president. That's one thing I did. President Barack Obama, I should say. And I was with Ivanka Trump. So I go all ways, politically speaking, just do that. But point is, is that she was there on the stage. She was leaving the stage. Indian security was here, and I'll show you, you can look at the picture later. American security was there, and I'm there. I'm strategizing, right? My Hillary Clinton moment. I'm always strategizing. How do I get past? Okay, this Indian, do I go like this? Namaste, what do I do? American security, hey, what's up, dude? Don't shoot me. You know, so I'm thinking, how do I do it? Bottom line is she got off the stage. Guess what I did? I screamed her name out in front of 500 people, 1,000 people. Ivanka, I was raised in Brooklyn. Can you come back and take a selfie with me? She was halfway off the stage. She smiled, said sure. She came back. I pissed off all the Secret Service, all the security, took my selfie, and she walked away. I was like, boom, there it is. That's my story. I'm done.

Amber [00:37:18]:
Oh my God, this is why I love you. That is epic.

Maelisa Hall [00:37:26]:
You got to put yourself out there, people.

Amber [00:37:31]:
Oh, you might need to do a little sub-series about how to potentially embarrass yourself but still win big.

Ramon Ray [00:37:38]:
We can do it together. Seriously.

Amber [00:37:40]:
I have plenty of embarrassing stories. I love that. But you got it.

Ramon Ray [00:37:47]:
Indeed.

Maelisa Hall [00:37:48]:
I would say that's your challenge from this episode is put yourself out there. What is like the most embarrassing thing you can do for you, right? Your level may not be screaming Ivanka's name in front of hundreds of people, but what is the most embarrassing way you can put yourself out there knowing that if it like went horribly wrong, you're still like, hey, I did it.

Amber [00:38:08]:
And you wouldn't be arrested.

Ramon Ray [00:38:09]:
That is so, so true. So, so true.

Amber [00:38:11]:
That's a good, that's a good challenge for today. Okay. But so if people want, I mean, because I mean, who wouldn't want more of this? And they want to experience you live. I know you have a couple of things coming up, but where can people go? Where should people go?

Ramon Ray [00:38:25]:
I'd be honored. Listen, anybody wants to reach me, you can go to ramonray.com, not Ramoncito, not Ramon, not Raymond. It's Ramon, R-A-M-O-N, ramonray.com. smarthustle.com, feel free to go there and sign up. My book is out, Celebrity CEO. On October 25th, I have a big, big, big conference. I think it's big. October 25th called the Smart Hustle Conference, smarthustleconference.com. And listen, if you mention Amber Holly, Melissa Hall's name. Maybe I'll give a treat to you. Maybe, you know what, the first person to email me right now, I'll just send you my book. Heck, I'll just send my book for free. I'll even pay for the shipping. So there you go.

Amber [00:38:54]:
Mean, I if it comes from one of us, does it still count?

Ramon Ray [00:38:59]:
I'll send you guys two of them already.

Amber [00:39:04]:
We're like, hey, I was first listener.

Maelisa Hall [00:39:10]:
Thank you so much for doing that.

Amber [00:39:12]:
Yes, and we will of course have all this information in the show notes, but thank you so much. You have an infectious energy, and like we said, you put the extra in extrovert, and we just can't get enough.

Ramon Ray [00:39:23]:
I appreciate it very much. All honored, honored to be with you all. Thank you.

Amber [00:39:27]:
Thank you.