Boosting Productivity Through Effective Delegation with Lesley Pyle

[00:00:00] Amber Hawley: Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren't reaching their full potential in business and life despite their type A ways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a dot com dropout with ADHD, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who want to stop struggling for success by using psychological systems, strategies, and the occasional carefrontation.

[00:00:27] Amber Hawley: This is The Easily Distracted Entrepreneur. Your place to slay overwhelm, perfectionism, and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you.

[00:00:39] Amber Hawley: Hello. Hello, my focus seekers. I am hoping by the time you hear this, you have already put your taxes to bed, whether that's sending it to your CPA, you submitted them yourself, or you just filed that extension. And, uh, hopefully you'll put together a plan so that I don't have to have this conversation in October.

[00:01:00] Amber Hawley: But, uh, I will, because, you know, you're my Neuro Spicy people and sometimes that's just how we roll. But I hope it's a big sigh of relief and that you have actually finished your taxes. And now you can look forward to the next big project on your list. And hopefully it's something that you're really looking forward to, something that's fun or something that will really.

[00:01:27] Amber Hawley: move the needle in your business ahead, help you grow, leverage, scale, and you know, perhaps by not just working more. And that is always the goal. Well, if you would like some support around that, you should join us in Asheville in May for the Get Shit Done Retreat. We already have 15 people signed up, we are so excited, some amazing NeuroSpicy and some not NeuroSpicy business owners who are coming to get a major project or goal achieved in just two days.

[00:02:02] Amber Hawley: And we know you can do it because we have the structure to help you get into flow, to help you focus, and all the pre planning to make sure that you can actually get done what you're trying to get done without overworking. If you would like more information, head on over to amberholly. com forward slash retreat and I really encourage you to do it now like ASAP because the price for the retreat goes up this Saturday, so you'll definitely want to buy a ticket before then.

[00:02:34] Amber Hawley: And we are doing an Encore planning session for our first planning session this upcoming Monday, the 22nd of April. All planning sessions are recorded so if you join after that you can still watch the recording to get all of the good information. But we had an amazing planning session last Friday.

[00:02:58] Amber Hawley: There is a planning session number two happening next Friday. So there's still lots of support to be had live and we know that's always the best. And I'm pretty excited about the varied things that people are committing to working on at the retreat. Some people are doing marketing, websites, doing batch recording or batch writing blog posts.

[00:03:22] Amber Hawley: They are looking at their systems, getting caught up on documentation, all kinds of things. So it's going to be a really amazing environment where people are getting into flow and really excited and I hope you will join us. And like I said, you definitely want to join us before the price goes up. And then you can join us on Monday for that Encore planning session, and we will help you develop the plan to accomplish that big goal.

[00:03:51] Amber Hawley: So on today's podcast episode, I had an amazing conversation with Leslie Pyle, who is the CEO and founder of Encore. HireMyMom. com and since most business owners are struggling with hiring quality people, learning how to delegate, making sure they're hiring the right type of person, this is a phenomenal episode to listen to.

[00:04:15] Amber Hawley: She gives such good advice. And like strategy on how to go about hiring somebody the questions to ask how to vet them. And the her company is amazing for finding really awesome talent for people who maybe either want to work on a project basis or part time and have an amazing skill set. So definitely take a listen to the podcast episode.

[00:04:41] Amber Hawley: And like I said, you can maybe hit pause. And just run on over to amberholly. com forward slash retreat so that you can join us in the GSD retreat because hiring might be the thing that you work on. In fact, we do have one attendee who said that's probably what they're going to focus on is figuring out who they need to hire next.

[00:05:01] Amber Hawley: So enjoy the episode. Welcome to the podcast, Leslie. Thank you so much, Amber. It's so fun to be with you. Yeah, I'm very excited to have you on. When I got the email, I was like, how many times have I been told when, you know, you're talking to a friend or a colleague and you're like, I really need to hire somebody.

[00:05:24] Amber Hawley: I really have to find someone and without fail, they would mention your group, your company. And so I thought, Oh my gosh, this is perfect because as I, you know, have said many times, I think hiring is one of the biggest pain points in owning and running and scaling a business. And so the more support we can get and having experts like you talk about it, I think it's so, so helpful.

[00:05:49] Amber Hawley: Yeah, well, thank you very much. I know it was very scary for me the first time I hired someone, but you know, as you learn, obviously, it gets less scary. So I'm here to help make it not scary for your listeners if they haven't hired. Absolutely. 

[00:06:03] Amber Hawley: And, uh, yeah, so I've already introduced you, but I do sometimes think when I have people share a little bit of their story about how they got started, we get some of those really funny stories.

[00:06:14] Amber Hawley: fun nuggets. So I love the name of your company, Hire My Mom, obviously. I think it's clever. Um, so you were saying that when you started, it was hiring somebody was scary for you. Yes. 

[00:06:27] Lesley Pyle: Yeah. And when I actually first started, if you want to go back to the grassroots day, I had my first baby. She's now 28. So that's how long I've been at this.

[00:06:37] Lesley Pyle: And I soon discovered when I went back to work that it was scary. was not as easy as I thought it would be. I literally cried every single day for two weeks. And so I was like, you know, they're not going to let me work from home. I did ask. But 28 years ago, working from home was not a thing. So I was like, okay, I'm going to just do it.

[00:06:58] Lesley Pyle: So I took the leap and began freelancing when That was really uncommon and of course before that we had to cut our budget because we were a brand new, you know, college grads. I just finished my master's degree. I had no forethought that I would ever be a stay at home mom. I always thought I'd be climbing that corporate ladder.

[00:07:16] Lesley Pyle: So we bought a house. thinking we're going to be a dual income family. So I was like, okay, we're going to have to, we sold one of our cars. We became a one car family. We ate ramen noodles, which we did all through college because we put ourselves through college. And then we, you know, we cut out cable TV and every other bill that we could.

[00:07:35] Lesley Pyle: And it was tough in the beginning. So I did that for a year or two. And then I started a website when the internet was brand new to me. called Home Based Working Moms. And it was basically like an online chamber of commerce for moms that either worked at home or wanted to work at home. Because I was desperate for that connection and to learn from other women, as well as I knew they would want to learn, you know, like, how are you getting clients?

[00:08:00] Lesley Pyle: Or how do you invoice? Or, you know, what does, what does look, what does it look like to build your own website? You know, all of those questions. There was no social media. There were message boards, if you're old enough to remember message boards and forums, but that was about it. So I had that website, and that was such a blessing to me.

[00:08:18] Lesley Pyle: And I did that for about 14 years when I saw that kind of our, our business culture, if you will, started being more open to working from home. And I thought, you know, wouldn't it be great if I could start a website like match. com, but for women who wanted to work from home and small businesses that would hire them.

[00:08:37] Lesley Pyle: So that's where it all began for me. And I launched it in 2007 because I had such a passion to help other women, number one, who had that desire to work, but to have flexibility around their family, but also as a small business owner myself to connect to great. you know, employees or contractors. So it was like, for me, it was such, it just resonated so perfectly in my heart because I was like, okay, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a mom.

[00:09:04] Lesley Pyle: And what if I could just bring these two audiences together? 

[00:09:08] Amber Hawley: Oh, I love that so much. See, this is why I love, I love finding out a little bit more. Yeah, that is to know that you've been doing that Like the working from home thing, like you said, it's so accepted now. It's like, yeah, duh. But back then, I mean, even going back like 12 years ago, the, the attitudes towards things were so different, even though it did still absolutely exist.

[00:09:29] Amber Hawley: Right. Right. It's, I had that same thing that, you know, I went to grad school and I had, I don't know if I had fully thought it through, but there was part of me that always knew, like, I would not be working for someone else because that was why I left the dot com world. Like, I felt very disillusioned and, you know, I had my existential crisis and all of that.

[00:09:50] Amber Hawley: And it was the same thing where I had, you know, my husband and I, you know, we paid for me to go back to school and to go through all of my schooling. And then I had my baby right away. And it was just one of those things. Yeah. Where we cut out everything. And, you know, it was kind of this idea of like, I remember having that conversation being in the kitchen and saying to my husband, like, well, you know that, like, the only way for me to work full time would be as if we put our kid in full time daycare, which in the Bay Area, you know, that's basically a salary, right?

[00:10:26] Amber Hawley: Yeah, exactly. It's more, it was more than our mortgage. Like even, even part time child care. Wow. Well, when we had three, because we have three, three and four and a half years, it was more expensive. It was like double our mortgage payment. Now, granted, we had a low mortgage payment, but still. So I just, I think it's such a great, like, I love that though, that, you know, figuring it out.

[00:10:49] Amber Hawley: And again, I think I had an advantage of being in the dot com world. So there were things about running a business that I kind of like felt more comfortable with that I think people struggle with, like the technology. But at the same time, I'd never, like, I didn't grow up in an entrepreneurial family, like, I didn't get any of that training, you know, it was so, it was like flying by the seat of your pants kind of thing and figuring it out.

[00:11:12] Amber Hawley: So I can't even imagine how it was for you. So that's, I think it's pretty amazing. I love that. There was a lot of flying behind 

[00:11:19] Lesley Pyle: the seat of my parents too because I was learning, you know, it's a pretty much a fresh college grad. I didn't have a ton of business experience. I had a job in PR, which was my degree for like nine months.

[00:11:31] Lesley Pyle: And that was, you know, Everything else was trial and error. 

[00:11:35] Amber Hawley: Exactly, exactly. I know I had more nanny and retail experience than I ever had in anything else. Even though I did work in the dot com world, like I, you know, you learn it quickly. But, yeah, I think that's such a great story. And it's true though, I mean, I think that, That one, there's a couple of pieces that, you know, especially for new moms, but I think any moms really when they're feeling as entrepreneurs feeling so isolated.

[00:12:01] Amber Hawley: And so it's like having that community and that connection is so important. But then finding people that you know, are gonna help support you building your dream and you get to support them having some freedom. I think it's super important. So You started the business, you said in 2007, the, the new, the newer, the newest, latest business, what, I guess we were just talking and you said a lot of this, it's, you know, all of the pieces are still really important.

[00:12:30] Amber Hawley: But the one thing that I noticed with the people that I've, work with is this feeling of, I don't think I can hire. And the one thing I say all the time is, if I could go back, that's the one thing I would have hired fast. I would have hired faster because I think hiring the right people actually makes you money, even though we look at it as like a cost, right?

[00:12:52] Amber Hawley: Yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry. What are your suggestions for, like, people when they're trying to decide, like, is it, is it time to hire? Right. 

[00:13:02] Lesley Pyle: First of all, I would say the one thing you have to realize is you don't have to hire someone full time or even half time to hire someone. Like, we get job posts that are for five or ten hours a week.

[00:13:11] Lesley Pyle: It's somebody brand new. To hiring and they're a little bit afraid to commit to more than that because one they don't know if they have enough work For that person and number two, they may be worried about can I afford someone but I think almost always they realize Okay, now that they're taking this it's typically a virtual assistant as a as the first hire Because they can take off the things off your plate that are keeping you Busy from either growing your business or doing what you love in your business so I think There are signs to know when you should hire.

[00:13:42] Lesley Pyle: One is your customer service is slipping. You're no longer able to give your best to your customers. You're wearing too many hats. You're trying to do it all. And you know, you can in the beginning. You have to sometimes in the beginning, but eventually you need to stop wearing all the hats if you want to grow and serve your customers well.

[00:14:02] Lesley Pyle: You're working too many hours. If your husband's giving you the side eye too much, that could be a clue that, hey, come in here and, you know, spend some time with the family. Or maybe you don't have the capacity to take on new business because you're so bogged down in what you have. And ultimately, you probably want to grow past that level wherever you're at.

[00:14:22] Lesley Pyle: So, Giving some of what you do off, you know, to someone else and like I said, maybe it's a virtual assistant for 5 or 10 hours. Maybe it's a social media person who's going to do, you know, 3 to 5 posts a week for you, you know, it could be virtually anything that's bogging you down and something that either you don't have time for or you don't love doing.

[00:14:44] Lesley Pyle: Um, and then the other way to know is if you do have other team members and they're bogged down and they're not able to accomplish what you're giving them and maybe they're wearing too many hats. Maybe your virtual assistant is doing your accounting, your social media, your email, your calendar, it might be time to say, okay, let's let the virtual assistant really focus on, you know, virtual assistant task or customer service and let's get, you know, someone in marketing or digital marketing to help with whatever else you need.

[00:15:12] Amber Hawley: Yeah, I, and I really, I appreciate that you said when your customer service starts to slip, like that's something where I think we get into a place of just beating ourselves up and I, I actually don't hear people articulating that particular like sign as often, you know, I hear like the burnout and exhaustion and all the other things, but, but it's true.

[00:15:33] Amber Hawley: Like they're, they. There comes a point in which things are falling through the cracks, right? And so it's, it's, and that's where, again, I think the narrative is often like, Oh, I just need to do it better. I'm not doing it good enough. And there's like some kind of failure on their part as opposed to, No, this just means you need support.

[00:15:52] Amber Hawley: Right? Right. Absolutely. And so the other thing that I see too is like, like you're saying, I think there's this idea of, well, if I give somebody more hours, they're going to be more consistent or prioritize me, which there's some truth to that. Yeah. Mm hmm. But at the same time, I find like people will hire a, an assistant in particular, and then have them doing.

[00:16:17] Amber Hawley: all kinds of things that are absolutely not in their wheelhouse or not their strong suits. I guess how, when people are in that place, You know, what are the, what are the recommendations or how do you advise people around, you know, finding what's the ideal like giving somebody enough for they, they say they still focus on you and they prioritize you, but at the same time, you're not just giving them like the kid, everything in the kitchen sink, right?

[00:16:46] Amber Hawley: Right. 

[00:16:47] Lesley Pyle: Yeah, I think, you know, once you find yourself in that place where you're thinking, okay, I'm giving this person either more than, um, they're capable of, or it's more skills than they may not necessarily have. So, I think it's good to kind of step back and review everything you do in a day for your business, you and any team members you have, and then kind of put them in buckets if you can.

[00:17:09] Lesley Pyle: So, these are admin tasks, these are customer service, this is marketing, and Social media, accounting, you know, all the buckets that you have and then align, you know, whatever team members have those skills that shine in those areas, you know, put, give them those responsibilities and a lot of times, like I say, a job might only offer 10 hours a week on, you know, some of the job posts that we have.

[00:17:34] Lesley Pyle: But that's fine for a lot of these ladies because they'll work for two or three people for 10 hours a week. And in one way, that's good because they're learning a variety of skills. You know, so what they learn with employer one, they can take back to employer two and so on. And they can basically improve what they're doing and say, here's, here's, you know, another way to do this.

[00:17:54] Lesley Pyle: And it might be more efficient for us. So there is some value in the freelancer or employee working for more than one person. And of course, if you grow to a point where you need someone in virtual assistant capacity or any capacity for 30 to 40, then you know that works as well. Because some people just like the standard, I'm working for one person and they really feel they excel in that role.

[00:18:20] Lesley Pyle: So 

[00:18:21] Amber Hawley: yeah, it 

[00:18:22] Lesley Pyle: works either way. It really can. 

[00:18:24] Amber Hawley: Yeah, and I think, so this is where I'll, I'll do the, I'll say what I know my, my clients are dealing with and I have dealt with is, The one thing I'm seeing, so maybe this comes down to like how you vet people or the questions you ask is they're bringing on people and when they come to me and they'll, you know, come to a session or come to one of our calls or something and they're like, Oh my gosh, I found this person and they do this and they do this and they and they start listing more and more and more and then talking about the different people.

[00:18:56] Amber Hawley: I'm like, uh, that's, that's cool. That feels like a rest, like that person is probably either in burnout or headed towards burnout. And so, and then sure enough, like they start to have things fall through the cracks and whatever. And so sometimes it's like, I've always said, I think you do have to kind of listen.

[00:19:13] Amber Hawley: And I only learned this through hiring people who I met them and I was like, Oh, this person's amazing. And they were, they're amazing people. And they completely overloaded themselves. And then they just, you know, Then they felt so much shame about it that they just kind of started, you know, ignoring stuff or whatever.

[00:19:32] Amber Hawley: I guess, how do you suss for somebody who's like, really got the energy and lots of varied skill sets, like you said, they learn because they have multiple people and they're really just overwhelms and probably taking on way too much. 

[00:19:46] Lesley Pyle: Yeah, I think you do start looking for signs, like, you know, if they're not responding as timely as they used to, or you're notice, noticing a few more errors than normal, then I think it's time to have a one on one meeting and not a one on one meeting.

[00:20:00] Lesley Pyle: Oh, my gosh, you're terrible messing up meeting. But hey, what's going on? And how can I better support you? Are you taking on too much? Should we revisit the tasks that you have? Do you feel like you're better at one or, you know, this one or that one, however many they have? And let them tell you because if you have someone that you really value, You want them to be happy and you want them to excel and be their best.

[00:20:22] Lesley Pyle: So maybe they really just love the VA stuff and they're really stressed and pulled too thinly on some of the other tasks or vice versa, whichever it is. Maybe they really love the digital marketing and they don't really like the admin, whatever it is. I think just having those honest conversations with your team one on one.

[00:20:42] Lesley Pyle: And I think that you earn their respect even more because I've had Uh, some of my team tell me that they are so like touched because when, when I onboard someone, I have 'em fill out a Google form and I ask them a bunch of questions about themselves, um, because I wanna get to know them, number one. But it's also a cheat sheet for gifts and, you know, things, ways to honor them and, um, celebrate them and things like that.

[00:21:07] Lesley Pyle: And they're not used to that. But those are things that when you pour into your team. you not only get the best out of them, but they become more loyal to you as well. Because I mean, let's be honest, it's so much easier to keep someone long term than to train and replace and train and replace. 

[00:21:24] Amber Hawley: Oh, absolutely.

[00:21:26] Amber Hawley: Yeah, I do the same thing. The, the Google form and kind of find out. It's really nice. And back when we were still a brick and mortar in person, I, It was, yeah, even having snacks or in the office that they like those little things that make them feel cared for. And you know, even something that I did because it, when I worked in the.

[00:21:47] Amber Hawley: com world and started a new job, they would always on your first day, like take you out for like a nice lunch with the team or, you know, like your close, the people you were probably going to work with a lot. Um, now then after then they probably throw you in the deep end and never talk to you again.

[00:22:03] Amber Hawley: Somewhat true. But, but I feel like those little touches do matter. They do add up and, and I agree. I've had that even when I've hired therapists where I like check in and have conversations because things are slipping or things are happening and sometimes you find out like they're not, you know, they're going through major stuff, right?

[00:22:26] Amber Hawley: But, but it's hard. It's a hard balance of like, you know, how much do you, uh, You give understanding, of course, especially when there's somebody who's been so good. But what would you say for, like, if you start to see that almost immediately, like things are slipping through the cracks and you're checking in and somebody's really overwhelmed.

[00:22:45] Amber Hawley: And, you know, if this is a solopreneur who, uh, This is our first hire and they can't really afford to have more than one. Do you have any like thoughts about that? I realize I just threw you in the deep end on this question. That's 

[00:22:57] Lesley Pyle: a great question. And I would say, you know, it's a great time to have a heart to heart.

[00:23:02] Lesley Pyle: I mean, we're people, we're business owners, but we're people. And one of my team members is a single mom. So there have been seasons where she's had to deal with things that are hard, you know, and she'll have to pull back. just a little bit, you know, and deal with some things. And I have, you know, another team member who can kind of fill in for her when those things happen, because I, I understand I was a single mom for a season as well.

[00:23:24] Lesley Pyle: And it's hard. I mean, you deal with certain things. So I think having those heart to hearts with, you know, okay, is this temporary, what you're going through, the things that are falling through the cracks? Or is this just not the job that you thought it was? You know, be honest with me because it's. If it's not, it's better to know now than to get six months down the road when you've invested even, even more time, you know, and sometimes you can do all the right things in an interview and still the person may not be the best fit.

[00:23:53] Lesley Pyle: I mean, that just happens, of course, the better you interview and the better your questions are and the references. Obviously, the better chance you're going to have of that not happening. But, you know, there's no fail safe 100 percent way to make sure that this person's going to be your rock star forever.

[00:24:08] Lesley Pyle: So, I think just having those honest conversation and allowing them, you know, you don't have to pry into their life, but just letting them know, you need to know that, you know, this person is the right fit and that they're going to be dependable and that they want to work with you. And if not, you know, thank you for the service you did provide.

[00:24:26] Lesley Pyle: I wish you all the best, but I do need someone that can do XXX and, and not give me their leftovers. Maybe you say it a little bit nicer than that. Yeah, 

[00:24:34] Amber Hawley: of course. Of course. No, I love that though. It's true. I do think it's just having those really honest conversations. And yeah, I do think it starts in the interview process.

[00:24:45] Amber Hawley: I, but I always tell people I've made every single mistake, even though when I worked, I did internet operations and I would hire people. And so I had the experience of hiring, but it feels so different to hire when it's your own business. You know, there's like an emotional attachment to it. For sure. But I do think that even that structure helped me, like, lay out a good, like, way of, of approaching the interview process.

[00:25:11] Amber Hawley: And I still, still made mistakes. Like, you know, somebody's anxiety didn't show up at all. And then they were so anxious, they, like, couldn't function. Or, you know, so, or like, in one case, I was like, well, that was obviously a lie. But I'm intrigued. Let me see. Turns out that wasn't a good choice. It was more about their capacity.

[00:25:35] Amber Hawley: You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like they were, I was like, Oh, let me take somebody who's a blatant liar. But, but yeah, when it comes to the process of interviewing somebody, what is, what do you recommend people do? 

[00:25:48] Lesley Pyle: Yeah, and when we do that, I also wanted to jump back after this and talk about the job post because I see a lot of errors and that I don't want to forget to mention that.

[00:25:56] Lesley Pyle: But as far as the interview, I think it's good to have some questions, you know, prepared, obviously in advance that kind of really get to the meat, uh, the meat of it. Like, um, you want to know what interests them about this job and what you're looking for is, is this just a job and they're looking for money because they just want to make money?

[00:26:15] Lesley Pyle: Or is this something, is there something about your job that resonated with them? And I look for things like, you know, Did they read anything about our history or our social media? Did they know anything at all about Hire My Mom? Or are they just like, yeah, I'm a great virtual assistant, hire me, or whatever it might be.

[00:26:31] Lesley Pyle: So that's one thing. Um, then I also like to know what other virtual jobs they've held, what their responsibilities are, and kind of learn a little bit about what that was like, what they liked about it, what they didn't like about it, because What they didn't like about it, you're looking for anything that you would have them do, and you're like, okay, she didn't like that, and that's like a big part of what this role would be.

[00:26:50] Lesley Pyle: So that's going to be a telltale sign, and if what they loved is what you need, then that's a good sign. Also, what's your top tip for a successful virtual working relationship? You know, That sometimes is a different one for people because they're like, Oh, gosh, I don't know. But you know, I'm like, take your time, like, think about it.

[00:27:11] Lesley Pyle: What do you think is so important? And obviously one of them for me is communication. Like I don't need to know everything you're doing all day long, but I do want to be in communication to be updated on this project or that project or this customer. You know, I'm having an issue with this customer for this reason.

[00:27:29] Lesley Pyle: Like I want to be aware of things, but I don't want to micromanage anyone. For me, that's how I. You know, that's what I value. So, I'm looking for what they value in a virtual relationship. And then what do they like and not like about working virtually? Because, you know, there are pros and cons. I think there are a lot more pros, personally.

[00:27:47] Lesley Pyle: But, you know, what do they dislike? If you learn that they really struggle with isolation or something, you know, is that going to be a barrier to them? Succeeding long term in a virtual working relationship and then ask how, how did the skills that I'm looking for fit your past? So I like them to kind of tell me what they've done and how that matches what I'm looking for.

[00:28:11] Lesley Pyle: And it doesn't, you know, it's never gonna be 100%, but I'm looking for at least 50 percent match on what they've done before and how it will work with what I'm looking for then also ask about disruptions because a lot of People have young kids and I have no problem with that But if you're going to be working for 30 hours and you have young kids i'm like, okay What's how are we going to handle that even though you're probably not supposed to ask specifically.

[00:28:37] Lesley Pyle: Um, I just like to see what the How do they handle disruptions? Do they have someone who helps with the kids or do they have to constantly leave to care for others? Um, if so, those are fine, but a 30 hour a week job may not Be the best fit for someone that has a ton going on at their house Then I also ask what makes them think they're the best candidate and then to describe themselves.

[00:29:00] Lesley Pyle: So those are just some of my favorites in an interview 

[00:29:04] Amber Hawley: Yeah, I like those. Um, the one where you mentioned like their talent, I do think it's important to know like what people don't like just as much as what they do. I remember I had this person who was, I thought was perfect. Loved the energy, like, similar vibes.

[00:29:21] Amber Hawley: It was all great. But then she was describing, basically, I'm not a micromanager. If anybody knows, I'm like the opposite. I'm like, can I just give it to you and you just do it? Like, I don't want to have to deal, but you do need communication, right? Like that, like you said, and she was like, I don't want people to like, Checking in and asking me like, why, what, where things at.

[00:29:42] Amber Hawley: It was basically like she didn't want someone checking in and like questioning her. And I'm like, the way it was worded was so like, I just couldn't hire her. And it sucked because I loved her so much, but I just knew I was like, Oh, there's going to be pushback. And that's like, to me, the one thing knowing me and my personality, that's the other part.

[00:30:00] Amber Hawley: It's like, I'm going to get really irritated if I'm like, following up with you because you haven't told me how something's happening. And then you have an attitude like I already know that's going to be a problem. Right? Right. So I think it's also like understanding yourself and especially working with, you know, so many, I say, neuro spicy business owners.

[00:30:20] Amber Hawley: It's like there, we can be like highly sensitive. We can be, you know, we can be a little scattered. And I always say like, I'm very, I'm very Understanding if I've forgotten, I'll own when I forget something, but I think it's also understanding how knowing you and your personality when people say certain things like paying attention to that.

[00:30:39] Amber Hawley: Don't just like, Oh, it'll be fine. Like, I think that's the mistake we make so many times, right? 

[00:30:45] Lesley Pyle: Right. Yeah, because you are looking for someone complimentary to you. Not someone exactly like you, but not when someone polar opposite either. So I think those are clues to look for as well, because it is good to have someone who compliments you and, um, you know, has skills that you don't have.

[00:31:01] Lesley Pyle: But who's not going to constantly like have friction like, okay, um, I should be able to ask and, uh, you know, check on this project because I haven't heard from you all week like, hey, is everything going? Okay. What's the status? Like, that shouldn't be a big, like red flag for the person that should be like, Oh, yeah, I should have updated you because we haven't talked in a week.

[00:31:20] Lesley Pyle: Exactly, exactly. 

[00:31:21] Amber Hawley: And you know, in my it could have been that they had a You know, she had a boss that was a micromanager and felt really belittled or something, but the way it was expressed, I'm like, well, I'm just not willing to take that risk, right? Right. 

[00:31:34] Lesley Pyle: Yeah. 

[00:31:35] Amber Hawley: Okay. So I love those questions. Those were some really good ones.

[00:31:40] Amber Hawley: And you said, though, even before the interview questions, you see that people are having some missteps in the job descriptions. 

[00:31:47] Lesley Pyle: Right. Yeah. So that's kind of step one for me is having a good job post because we get everything from one sentence. I need to hire an assistant, please apply. Like literally that'll be the job post.

[00:31:59] Lesley Pyle: And then we have from that we have like a 45 page book. And I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's somewhere in the middle. And I tell people it doesn't have to be difficult, but you know, start by sharing a brief description of what your company does. So, you know, if you are a florist, you know, that might really resonate someone just knowing what you are and what your business does.

[00:32:22] Lesley Pyle: So I think not just putting what the job is, but what your business is and what your business does is important. If you have a mission state, if you have company values. Those are also going to align with certain people and bring the right, hopefully, people to apply. And if you have something in your mission statement that's just like, oh, that's not really how I roll, then, you know, you're hopefully preventing someone who's not a good fit from applying.

[00:32:47] Lesley Pyle: So that helps attract the right candidates. And then obviously list the roles, responsibilities. and requirements, more than just I need an assistant, like give a brief overview of what types of things the person would be doing or what tools that you might use, um, to give the person a good idea of, okay, this, this is what the person's looking for.

[00:33:06] Lesley Pyle: Um, share the benefits of working for your company. Like I see, um, Sometimes they'll say, you know, we invest in our employees and do training quarterly or um, we have opportunities to grow Um, we take off these days or these holidays We celebrate these milestones and accomplishments We value independence or we value growth Lots of collaboration.

[00:33:31] Lesley Pyle: We have a very fun and lighthearted work environment, or we have a more serious and, you know, let's do the work, like any kind of clues that give people an idea of what it's like to work for you. Again, I think helps you attract the right type of candidate. And then. You know, provide enough information, but don't overwhelm because I think when you write too much people do not read the entire job description, and I know sometimes people say apply with, you know, times point, you know, whatever fine and that's fine.

[00:34:01] Lesley Pyle: But if you're going to have. Someone um, you want them to take tests and things like that. I feel like those are better in round two Because if you put too many requirements in the initial job post A lot of times people are like that's too much work and I don't even know if they will like me So i'm just going to go to the next job post So you have to kind of balance that out like if it's important for you to know that they're detail oriented Then yeah put something in there that you know initially gives you a clue whether they read through it and have that detail oriented personality, but don't make it so hard that you're going to turn away people that might have been a good candidate and keep them from applying.

[00:34:40] Amber Hawley: Absolutely, and yeah, I did that, uh, the one time that it really stood out to me was I had in there, Uh, when you apply the subject line of the email, put most awesome, uh, assistant, and that was just the subject line. It literally eliminated 97 percent of the applications, which I was like, it was great because I was like, good.

[00:35:03] Amber Hawley: I don't have to read. And I did read a couple of them and thought, yeah, that's great. You know, when you read it, you're like, Oh, gosh, they sound so great. But to me, I'm like, if you can't, when you're supposed to be putting on your best, you know, best foot forward and you don't do that, you know, and I ended up hiring two people from, from the, of the three that actually made it through, it was like 30 something people who didn't, you know, and, um, Joanna was with me for years and just a rock star.

[00:35:32] Amber Hawley: And so it's like, I even felt that pull to ignore that. But I, it was that little thing that just makes such a difference. But yeah, I could see where, yeah, you don't want to make it insurmountable for people as well. 

[00:35:44] Lesley Pyle: Sometimes they'll tell you to write an essay or, you know, do a lot of stuff. Like what you had to do, the subject line is Perfect.

[00:35:50] Lesley Pyle: Because then you know if they read the entire job description. Exactly. And okay, are they paying attention? And are they really interested in this job? Or are they applying for 50 jobs today and they just bam, bam, bam, bam. They don't really care. You know, so those little ways to, you know, I just had somebody last week, in fact, um, messaged me on LinkedIn and she goes, I just want to give you some feedback.

[00:36:10] Lesley Pyle: Um, I've got some great candidates, but over half of them who applied did not follow the instructions. And I think it was something similar. So she was like, I mean, it saved me time because I was able to just delete half of the applicants and I only had to go through half. So that's word to the wise for anyone applying for work too is read the job description two or three times and make sure you're cluing in on everything they're looking for.

[00:36:35] Amber Hawley: Yeah, and I agree. I think most of the people, it was literally, they're just like, like it was on Indeed, I think, and so it was just like, boom, apply, apply, apply, apply, and like, they didn't even have some of the basic criteria, but, but it was, it is helpful, you know, to have that, just that little, little thing, but I also do understand what you're saying about not putting too much, I guess, being a therapist, I've worked with so many people who, and You know, as their therapist who were like amazing people, but they lacked the confidence or they felt like, Oh, I don't know if I can do that.

[00:37:08] Amber Hawley: And I'm like, What are you talking about? Especially when it was something they had a degree in or something. I'm like, you are totally qualified. You're an amazing person. Like, you have to just apply like, let them, you know, You know, let, let the process like uncover that. So I like that idea of being thoughtful about managing the overwhelm for people as well.

[00:37:30] Amber Hawley: Right. Yeah. What, um, so if you're, you know, thinking about the people, so many, um, business owners when they're starting out and they're like, okay, I, you, like you said, I want this stuff and I need some accounting help and I need some. I'm getting help and I need this and that and you know, personal chef, whatever.

[00:37:46] Amber Hawley: I don't, you know, they have all these things. Where would you say the line is or how, how should somebody approach that when they're like, Oh, here's my unicorn. If I could have somebody that embodied all of these qualities versus let me put something out that is appealing and is probably Yeah, absolutely.

[00:38:04] Amber Hawley: Going to get like good candidates. What would you say? Where's the line in that or how would you approach that? So I think 

[00:38:11] Lesley Pyle: there are two ways to approach that one is if you do have multiple roles that you're looking to fill I would say okay Which one's the most pressing which one's taking the most of your majority of your time and does Has the task that you dislike the most that's probably who you should hire first And I wouldn't recommend hiring, you know, several people at once i'd hire one kind of get them rolling then hire the next You Or another option that I know it works for some is to just hire an online business manager.

[00:38:37] Lesley Pyle: And that person is somebody who basically would be your right hand woman or man, and they would know all of those roles. So it could be that you hire that person to learn the VA role, the digital marketing role, whatever other roles that you have, and that way they can even create SOPs for you. Like, here's what a virtual assistant has to do.

[00:38:58] Lesley Pyle: We're going to create the SOP for her and for, you know, the email marketing person, the social media person, the accounting person, whatever roles you need. And she can help organize all of that and then also help you in the hiring process. If, like, you don't like the interview process, maybe you have her or him Begin that process and then you review her top two or three candidates.

[00:39:20] Lesley Pyle: Um, so that's another great way I did that actually not she wasn't my first tower But I did have an online business manager who set me fully up in asana Who got me so much more organized than I was and had You know, different boards created for different team members, some that were for the full team.

[00:39:36] Lesley Pyle: And it was so nice to have all of that done for me. And she knew a little bit about every role. So if somebody couldn't, like, you know, had vacation, she could step in if needed, you know, for that person. So that's another great option. Of course, you're going to pay that online business manager a higher fee than you would pay, say, a VA or something.

[00:39:56] Lesley Pyle: But that is another great option for somebody that's like, I need help in all the places. And I want to do it now. 

[00:40:03] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, the operations part, you know, I've had somebody that didn't call herself an online business manager, but it was that same type of thing. I think it's nice, not only because it's somebody else who's thinking strategically for you, because it's, I mean, that to me is, you know, A distinguishing difference is the online business manager versus a virtual assistant is they are a lot more strategic and thinking about things and like you said can help you kind of create those processes.

[00:40:33] Amber Hawley: I also think it's nice if you know that you tend to get. Like attached to people and you feel bad rejecting or saying no to people, um, whether or not it's a operations person. I always found it was nice to have, um, like I had my assistant when we would be hiring for like therapists or anything, she would be the one we had like little blurbs written after each session.

[00:40:57] Amber Hawley: process that she would send out because I would feel terrible and then I would not reply and say, I'm sorry, we've gone a different route. And then I felt terrible for not replying to them because you know, they're waiting. So it's like, I feel like sometimes having that buffer, even just for you to like be able to stay, stay in your zone and not get too emotional about all the decisions can be helpful.

[00:41:20] Amber Hawley: Yes. Awesome. Well, I mean, gosh, this went so fast. Uh, I want to be mindful of time. But so yeah, so, so many people, I think it's the feeling of, Oh, I can't, I can't hire. I'm not ready. They get nervous about like, yeah, can I afford it? Is it sustainable? And I'm usually of the. You know, that's my biggest lesson is constantly saying every time I have hired and I realized like they save you money because you're also not losing clients because things are falling through the cracks.

[00:41:56] Amber Hawley: Like they're taking care of things and it frees you and your energy up to do the like bringing in more business or doing the things that matter more for that. And so it's like Is there anything you would say to people when they're in that place of like, Okay, I am kind of on the cusp. Things aren't necessarily falling through the cracks.

[00:42:17] Amber Hawley: I'm not worried. I'm not like overworking per se, but I, but I know that I'm not, I'm not able to grow because I'm in this place. Is there any other advice you would give to somebody around like how to check in with themselves to know if they're ready? 

[00:42:32] Lesley Pyle: Yeah, I think, you know, anytime you're meeting any of those criteria, we talked about.

[00:42:37] Lesley Pyle: earlier, being overwhelmed, burned out, um, wearing too many hats, all of those. If you find yourself in any or all of those places, then it's probably time to step back and review and just think, okay, where am I spending the majority of my time? If it's answering emails and scheduling calls and things that an admin could do for you, then what if you could then, you know, Give that to someone else and then you could actually be more present in, you know, growing your business and soliciting new clients, whether that's going out networking or doing more on social media or just being visible more.

[00:43:12] Lesley Pyle: I think you'll see quickly that you'll more than make up for the amount of money that you're paying out. And as your business grows, you just give more hours or you hire more people. So it doesn't have to be scary. You can start small if you're like, okay, I think I can afford. 10 hours a week or five hours a week, then start there.

[00:43:30] Lesley Pyle: Because I promise you, there's somebody out there that's like, I have a newborn. I can only work five or 10 hours a week. And she'll be like, ding, ding, perfect. I want that job. So I'd say, just take the leap. You have really have nothing to lose. If it doesn't work out, then you're not tired to it forever.

[00:43:46] Lesley Pyle: You can learn what you've learned. Trial and error. We both went that route. We had to learn, you know, as we went. And um, I think you'll, you'll see quickly that it's a blessing. And like you said, you'll, you'll look back and say, man, I wish I'd done that sooner. It's not so scary after 

[00:44:03] Amber Hawley: all. Absolutely. I love it.

[00:44:05] Amber Hawley: So if people want to find out more information about you and get, uh, I know you have a good little freebie for the listeners. Where should they go? I'm Fletcher 

[00:44:16] Lesley Pyle: Yeah, so I have a couple of freebies. I can give you the link to put in the show notes. We have the top interview questions. And then we also have a template for your job post.

[00:44:25] Lesley Pyle: And if someone's interested, like I need all the things, we do have a short course on hiring made easy. You can also find that on Hire My Mom's website under post a job. So we have several resources because we love serving the small business owner, the entrepreneur, the solopreneur. You know, we even have a concierge program, um, for those business owners that are like I am too busy.

[00:44:49] Lesley Pyle: I don't like hiring Can you do it for me? And I was asked that like three years ago and I go, oh, I don't have time either What do you mean? And then the light bulb went off and I thought well, I don't have time but I could hire someone Who's an HR person. So we have a couple of HR people who will actually do the whole process for you.

[00:45:07] Lesley Pyle: So we try to be, you know, every way that we can serve the small business owner and the woman, man, anyone looking for remote work. We really try to meet them where they're at. Oh, 

[00:45:17] Amber Hawley: wonderful. Well, I, I'm glad you mentioned the concierge thing because I sure know a lot of people who are in that place of like, I am totally overwhelmed and I don't want to do it.

[00:45:26] Amber Hawley: So yes, that is wonderful. Well, thank you. Thank you again. It was so great to officially meet you. You as well. And, uh, this was really valuable. I, I think that's going to be a helpful process and, uh, we will have all of the links below. that you mentioned in the show notes for people to go check out and get those questions and those templates and, and get, get some people hired.

[00:45:47] Amber Hawley: Yes. Wonderful. 

[00:45:50] Lesley Pyle: Thank you so much, Amber. Thank you.