How Having an Arch Nemesis Can Help Your Personal Growth

00:00:24 - Maelisa Hall
Welcome to the final episode and season two of the My Biz Bestie podcast. I'm Melissa Hall.

00:00:30 - Amber Hawley
And I'm Amber Hawley.

00:00:32 - Maelisa Hall
Just a quick note that at the end of today's episode, we do have some adult language, so make sure you don't have those little kiddos in the car. Today, we are talking about the benefits of having an arch nemesis.

00:00:44 - Amber Hawley
First, I feel like I just need to acknowledge how sad I am that this is the last episode of the season. When you said that, I was like, aww.

00:00:53 - Maelisa Hall
I know it's a bit odd. It doesn't feel like it's the end already, but it is. So we will be taking two months off and then we'll be back.

00:01:03 - Amber Hawley
Yes. Although maybe some special treats in the middle. Like we like to do that. We like to maybe change it up, but yes, getting back to our arch nemesis.

00:01:13 - Maelisa Hall
And we actually, we talked about this episode, like, is this too negative to have at the end? And then we put it out there in a group and so many people were excited about the topic that we were like, oh, okay, I guess we have to do it. So now I'm even more excited to talk about it because it seems like people want to know about having an arch nemesis.

00:01:33 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, of course, we'll always have our BizBestie fun take on things, but I think that, you know, it's something that we kind of deal with in our business worlds, having people who kind of see things very different than us. So yeah, I think it'll be good.

00:01:51 - Maelisa Hall
So let's talk about what is an arch nemesis, Amber.

00:01:57 - Amber Hawley
Yes, this is kind of my little baby because I love superhero stuff. I'm all about the hero's journey. So yeah, and I jokingly but seriously have acknowledged a few different arch nemesis throughout my lifetime. It's what I like to call them.

00:02:13 - Maelisa Hall
And I have been racking my brain and I cannot think of an arch nemesis that I have. So we will just have to go with Ambers. But I also love superhero stuff and definitely can see examples of arch nemesis. Okay. I don't know. Multiple nemesis everywhere.
But why don't you break it down for us and tell us, you know, what is an arch nemesis versus just like a regular old enemy?

00:02:40 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and I will say, I think you can't have more than one arch nemesis at a time because that would take a lot of energy. But how I see it is, how the way I'm kind of contextualizing it is an arch nemesis is somebody who you have this relationship with and often it could be this really good friendship or it could even be a sibling or you have a close relationship with somebody and there might be this competitive relationship aspect to it or not.
But then as time goes on, your ideology or your values are so vastly different that it causes a break or a rift in the relationship. And obviously in superhero lore, that can mean you're out to destroy each other.

00:03:22 - Maelisa Hall
Or one of you is trying to destroy the world and the other one's trying to save it.

00:03:26 - Amber Hawley
Always, always. Of course, we all want to believe we're the protagonist. We're always the hero in this journey. But the reality is, I think, a little bit less hyperbolic, of course. But yeah, I mean, that's what it is. It's having somebody in your life that you have this relationship with and probably even a lot of respect for.
And then you kind of go your separate ways. And then there's a lot of conflict or opposing viewpoints. Yeah.

00:03:49 - Maelisa Hall
And that's why I like when we were talking about this beforehand, you brought up the example of Professor Xavier and Magneto. And I like that example because those are two people who were kind of on board together and were friends and were trying to do this good thing together.
And even though we look at Magneto as like the evil person in X-Men, he actually does have like good intentions, right? His goal is that he wants to save the mutants and he thinks that the mutants should be kind of more glorified, whereas Professor Xavier wants there to be a lot more integration.
So it's not that Magneto is just totally evil. He thinks he has this best intention in mind. But those two ideologies, because they're two really strong leaders and two really strong personalities, they got to a point where they couldn't work together anymore.

00:04:43 - Amber Hawley
Yes, absolutely. And, you know, yes, of course, again, they take it to an extreme. And by the end, he feels very evil because he wants to crush mankind and we should worship him like a god. But and like, how can you try to kill Professor Xavier? That's just so wrong.
But at the same time, yeah, that's the thing. It's it didn't start out that way. And it started out as, you know, just two friends who really saw things in a very different viewpoint and both had their valid views. you know, reasoning and perspective for those things.
And that's kind of what we're looking at because that's probably how it's showing up in our businesses and in our lives is more like that. We're just seeing things in a very different way. And so, you know, we wanted to talk about what are the benefits of that.
So the first benefit I think is, number one is it can give you some clarity about your own values and about the way that you look at things or what are the things that are important to you.

00:05:40 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, and I would say... I think I've had this with different interactions with people where you realize, oh no, that doesn't seem right. And then you think about it more and then maybe you engage in a disagreement, but it's more than just a disagreement where you realize like, oh, this is more than just us disagreeing on a particular topic.
This actually means that I don't think I can have an ongoing relationship with this person. This probably happens a lot with dating. And the benefit is that it does help you clarify. Like sometimes it's something you may not have thought of or you may not have thought of in that way.
And it helps you be like, oh, okay, yeah, no, this is a strong value of mine. This is where I have to take a stand.

00:06:21 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And normally we love to give examples, but everything I keep thinking of feels very divisive. And so I don't want to put it out there. I don't want this to be a political show or anything like that too.

00:06:31 - Maelisa Hall
Well, and in case any of the arch nemesis are listening to this podcast.

00:06:36 - Amber Hawley
I know. One at a time, Melissa. I'm telling you, it's one at a time. We'll get to that. We'll talk about what do you do if you have an arch nemesis in your life. But yeah, I'm sure that people can come up with examples for themselves because like I said, the goal is not for us to take a stance on something and to create new arch nemesis out there.
But to just say, again, it would be more like you're in a relationship with this person is kind of how we're guising it, right? So the other thing is, I feel that if you're really open to it and you have this growth mindset and your goal is to learn and evolve as a person, it can help you recognize your own shortcomings and grow as a person.
I really do believe that having somebody who triggers you, you know, in a certain way, right?

And who just views the world in such a different way from you can help you kind of re-examine some of your own beliefs.

00:07:36 - Maelisa Hall
Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think, and you can have a lot of different things. You don't only get that from having an arch nemesis, but if you are willing to look at interactions and think, why am I having this reaction? And instead of just reacting to people and disagreeing or wanting to do something different, actually look at why is that happening?
Why is this a big deal for me? Why are some people, we're all triggered more by certain people than we are by others, right? And what is it that's going on? Then you can learn a lot about yourself. and understand how to avoid things like that in the future.
You can understand what's important to you. You can understand how you might be able to react better to things. I know I have learned over time that I need to sometimes back away from Facebook and not comment on things.

But it's only after having like, you know, some negative interactions that I've been like, okay, you know what? I need to do this a little bit differently. And it's only from actually looking at what's going on, why is this so freaking triggering for me, right?

00:08:38 - Amber Hawley
Exactly. And sometimes it's a highlight of, okay, here's an area that I need to look at and work on in my life. If I can't be disagreed with, if that's really what it is, and maybe it's not, maybe it's more than that, or is it a trauma that I need to heal?
Those are different kinds of things, right? But yeah, I think it's one of those things where I'll give an example of, you just reminded me of somebody who on Facebook, because I normally wouldn't think of it. This is a person I don't have a relationship with, so it's unique, but not, it's similar.
But this person is really involved in a Facebook group that I'm really involved in. And I swear that it feels like every time I post something, they have to post a contrary or dissenting viewpoint. And it feels like every single time.

And It would be so upsetting because it just always felt like I couldn't have an opinion of something. And then I was being told how I was wrong or whatever. And this person clearly spent a lot of time planning out their answers, which is not something that I generally do.
I'm just in there interacting and being off the cuff most of the time. They irritated the hell out of me. I will tell you that. Like this person made me nuts. Like every time I saw like so-and-so has commented, I was like, oh my God, now what? Like what now?
You know, and I went through and of course, you know, you have to do a little Facebook stalking if you have an arch nemesis on there. So I went through and like would look at their responses to other people. And it wasn't just me, but I can tell that if we met in real life, our personalities would not click at all.

Like I clearly trigger this person a little bit too. Because I often will be like kind of shorthand and use humor. And this person is very literal. So that's hard for people. That's always a hard one. When people are really literal, it's hard for me. And I have many literal people in my life that I love dearly.
But it's like a little extra effort reminder to myself. But so I look through and, you know, this person actually came from a good place. I could see that they're being very thoughtful. Like sometimes I think it was a little too much. Like just... Sometimes it felt like worrying for the sake of worrying kind of thing where you're like, oh my gosh, does it all have to be this hard?
But I did look through and see like this person was very thoughtful. So I could see the positives in what they were doing. And then I will say in that group, I'm more thoughtful about my responses now because I realized like in that venue, off the cuff humor, although sometimes I still do that because that's me and it would get a good response because it's clearly I'm being funny.

Yeah. But when I'm trying to do the humor with a nugget of information, I am way more thoughtful about that now. So this person still irritates me, but do I think they're a horrible person? No, they're probably like clearly a very thoughtful person who cares about people.
We just personality wise wouldn't get along, right?

00:11:31 - Maelisa Hall
Right, right. And that might be a little different. Like, I don't know if you necessarily have to have a friendship with your arch nemesis beforehand, kind of like in our superhero examples, but I think it could look very different in real life. There are some different things that can happen.
And so I do think it's a little different, like we were saying, than just disagreeing with someone. It's kind of like these fundamental differences instead, like ongoing fundamental differences.

00:12:00 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And that's, to just clarify, this person, that would be their responses. Because it wasn't like I'm always joking. Sometimes I'm saying, okay, this is the viewpoint. This is the answer. And when you think, oh, clearly this person, you know, Mr. Boundaries, Mr.
like everything by the book is going to agree with this. And he would still choose the opposite, which was like, oh my gosh, like really, are you just messing with me? And I just feel like this over thinking sometimes. So yeah, it was, we just clearly saw the world very differently.
And so, you know, hey, it's okay. And then I realized like there was no point. So because he wasn't in a relationship with me, I guess I don't give it as, it doesn't impact me as much. Whereas when I've had these people in my life, it's much more different, right?
When I've had people where I consider them my arch nemesis, jokingly, that I feel more impacted by them and I feel like I'm going to have to respond or I'm going to just have to take in a little bit because I have no way to avoid it.

00:12:54 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. Yeah. Which is another benefit is that they motivate you to take some action usually, right? Because there's something that happens and at that parting of ways or in that fundamental difference that usually either requires you to take action or maybe just motivates you because you're like, you know what?
I've been thinking about this for a while and this is the catalyst. Like this is what did it. So I'm going to go take this action. And that's a benefit to you.

00:13:21 - Amber Hawley
Yeah. I think that's how mine have showed up more is that kind of thing where we see the world very differently or this negative interaction has happened. And then I say, okay, well, you know, I'm going to go do this thing that was already that I want to do, or I'm going to, it's kind of like that, let your haters be your motivators thing of like, I'm going to show you, you know, you're going to tell me I can't do this or that's not the way to do X, Y, Z.
All right then.

00:13:50 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah. Yeah. But instead of just like an immature, like I'm going to do this stupid thing just to show you, it's more like, you know what, I've been thinking about this thing and I think it's really important. And this situation happens. So yeah. Okay.
It's time. I need to take this action.

00:14:05 - Amber Hawley
Exactly. It'd be more, I guess if we're going to use it in business terms, it'd be more like, oh, I'm going to start this new endeavor or I'm going to try out this thing in my business. And the person is like, well, you can't do that. And then gives you just a lot of negativity and all the reasons why and blah, blah, blah.
And then you're like, no, I'm going to. So I think of it that way.

00:14:27 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We interrupt our regularly scheduled programming for this very special announcement.

00:14:33 - Amber Hawley
How would you like to spend three days and nights in a luxury setting in La Jolla, California? This will be an epic version of a GSD retreat.

00:14:43 - Maelisa Hall
Join us and four other women as you work on a major project for three days totally uninterrupted and all while having access to feedback and support along the way.

00:14:54 - Amber Hawley
You don't have to worry about a thing because everything, and I mean everything, is going to be taken care of for you. All you have to do is show up and be ready to be pampered and get in the zone to get all your stuff done. It's all happening September 20th to the 23rd, 2018.

00:15:12 - Maelisa Hall
For more information, head on over to mybizbestie.com forward slash retreat.

00:15:17 - Amber Hawley
But don't delay because there's only five slots and you know people want to hang out with us. So you better head on over. Plus, we're offering a super special discount for those of you who sign up before June 15th. So then you have your arch nemesis and this person who's in your life and you have very different viewpoints.
Then what do you do?

00:15:40 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, because I think one thing we haven't covered is that usually your arch nemesis is not someone who is totally going away.

00:15:48 - Amber Hawley
Right, like this dude on Facebook.

00:15:54 - Maelisa Hall
So yeah, so how do you handle that? I mean, I think the biggest thing is like you have to have some kind of limits, right? Like you have to determine what are your boundaries around it.

00:16:03 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, and I think what it comes down to is the degree in which you have your... Arch nemesis like, how severe of an arch nemesis is this, right? Like, in my way of when I've said it before about somebody and I've said jokingly, it's more like the somebody that maybe personality wise, we don't always connect.
But I definitely want to put my best foot forward. So I feel like I get very motivated by that. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna go do this thing, I'm gonna grow or I'm gonna not. Even if they told me not to, right, it's not even just that, it's just this idea of like.
I'm going to be the best version of me possible. And I'm going to go and I'm going to do that with the way that I think is the right way for me. And so they kind of, I definitely can get motivated by that.

00:16:48 - Maelisa Hall
Yeah, me too, for sure. And I think I will also, I think it will really help me, I guess when I think of circumstances that might kind of be similar to this arch nemesis thing in my own life and They are things that have actually, the action I've taken has usually been setting some kind of boundary or limit.
So a lot of times it's been like, okay, you know what? This group is not a good group for me to be in because I'm so triggered. So one of the limits I'm going to set is just to not be involved in this. Or like I said, a lot of times I used to get triggered by certain things and like I have this very strong sense of justice.
So it's like if this inaccurate information is out there, I cannot let it be. And I could keep persisting. And now I can honestly say, I did that just this morning. I'm like, oh, okay, no, moving on.

There are just certain limits I'm setting so that I'm not letting myself get worked up and continue with different things.

00:17:42 - Amber Hawley
Yeah, because at the end of the day, you got to say, is this worth it? Is this worth continuing to fight that fight? And sometimes it will be depending on what the subject matter is, right? And sometimes if it's just misinformation, you can't educate the masses.
So you got to manage your energy because it does take a lot of an emotional output, I feel.

00:18:01 - Maelisa Hall
I think this is where you can use your support system too, because you can tell someone that you're close to, like, hey, this person really triggers me. maybe they're in your networking group or whatever it is. It can be helpful if someone else knows, like not in a gossipy way, but you're just saying like, look, this super triggers me.
So don't give me random updates on what they're doing, you know, because I don't want to know. And if you see some interaction happening, like just give me a look or, you know, invite me to come do whatever or something so that you have someone that's helping you like move beyond and just ignore whatever you need to ignore.

00:18:41 - Amber Hawley
Yes. And I think that is great advice. And, you know, sometimes like this is the reality testing thing that we've perhaps talked about before of, I know, like, I'll come to you and say something if something happens and you'll give me a different perspective.
And often it is a very different perspective because we do see things differently. And so that helps me because it helps me calm down sometimes when I'm feeling particularly irritated. And sometimes I still feel very strongly like, no, this is how I'm perceiving the interaction and this is why it bothers me.
But it's still a good place where I can get a lot of that energy out, like just kind of vent and move on kind of thing. The other way in which I would say if this person's closer to you is setting boundaries around... your time and interaction with this person.
I think if somebody is really my arch nemesis and I realize we see the world in such a different place, sometimes people can feel compelled to still, like we said, educate and just share, constantly share, like this is how I'm seeing it.

And I think realizing agree to disagree sometimes and know like that's not the person to go to when you want to, you know, share your win or be vulnerable or, about kind of your endeavor or what's going on, I don't think that you're going to get the response in general that you're needing from that person.
So I do think it's about being thoughtful about that. And I've seen this with people like clients that I've worked with where they have this person and they probably would have called them like a frenemy or something. but they have this person, but they still care for them and they have this history with this person.
And so they'll feel compelled to like go have a lunch every six months or so and really dissecting, is that necessary? Is that even valuable? Because why would you take that time out of your life?

Life is, there's so much going on. You should be putting it into positive things, not going and having this obligatory lunch. If you need help with those boundaries, I think the book, The 80-20 Principle is a really good one for that.

00:20:36 - Maelisa Hall
Well, I think that's a really important point because you mentioned siblings at the beginning and I don't have this relationship. with my siblings, but I do think a lot of people do where there's been kind of this sense of competition. And as adults, you live very different lives or have different ways that you parent or have different ways that you view the world.
And it can be difficult. But with siblings, I feel like people have a lot of that sense of duty and like, oh, well, I do have to do this. And no, you don't have to do anything.

00:21:06 - Amber Hawley
Right. And if it is a sibling, let's say, and you go to those obligatory family events, functions, then do that. Do the family functions, maybe not the one-on-one stuff. But that's where I would say you keep it about the things that you know are not this big point of contention.
Because I think if our goal is always, I need to constantly get this person to agree with me or educate them, you're going to beat your head against a wall. And so when you have an arch nemesis like that, that you're interacting with a lot, it's important to just say, you know, not my monkeys, not my circus, and just focus on yourself and know that You feel right in the way that you look at things and you don't need to convince this person otherwise because, you know, I'm telling you, Professor X is never going to convince Magneto that integration is a safe space for mutants.
It's just never going to happen.

00:21:54 - Maelisa Hall
No, it's not. It's not. And I know that one has been really, really hard for me. Yeah. That is hard for me to let that stuff go. And I think this is where my husband has been really great because he is on the opposite end of the spectrum for me. He is like Mr.
Boundaries. Yes. And nothing is getting in his space that he doesn't want in his space. And he's really good about that. And I have benefited hugely from seeing that in him.

00:22:19 - Amber Hawley
And I would agree because my husband, I feel the same about him. And I do tend to see this more in men, but I still see men get impacted. So I'm not trying to say that their way is the right way. Oh, yeah. But there is a balance that comes when that's why I think having those people in your support network where you can bounce ideas and they have different viewpoints.
My husband and I disagree a lot about things, but I appreciate his viewpoint because it does help me come to the middle more, I would say. Because I would say even for you, we're still on a spectrum. I'm definitely on the right side is, you know, being impacted by other people's shit.
Like I'm definitely more to the right than you. You are better at zero fucks. Like I aim to be a zero fucks person. And there are people in my family who consider me to be that person. Absolutely. Boy, this is going to be some, hopefully no one's listening in the car with their children, but, but I aim to be that person.

And in some areas of my life, absolutely. And then in others, I get emotionally impacted and I still like, you know, that's just who I am. You're more towards the middle of that. And definitely our husbands are far to the left. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, hopefully, you know, we want to do this little final send off episode and kind of talk about the benefits of having an arch nemesis, because whether you call them frenemies or haters, or you just have those difficult people in your life or in your network, you know, we all have those interactions and, and, Maybe you can see some of the upsides to that and let them motivate you while still having good boundaries.

00:23:48 - Maelisa Hall
Yep, for sure.

00:23:50 - Amber Hawley
Awesome. Well, it has been a pleasure to be with you all in season two. We are going to miss you all, but it'll be lickety split. You'll be enjoying your summer. Next thing you know, more My Biz Bestie episodes will be coming out. It'll be fabulous. We already have some interviews done for season three that we are super excited about.
So we can't wait to see you all then. But in the meantime, head on over to our website and sign up for our email list so that you don't miss our launch, of course, and then all of our exciting new things that are coming our way. We don't want you to miss a thing.
So head on over there or definitely subscribe so that you don't miss when the next season starts.

00:24:34 - Maelisa Hall
And that's www.mybizbestie.com.