In this conversation with Cerita Yvonne, we talk about all the toxic thinking, perfectionism, people pleasing, not feeling good enough and the interplay of how you think about yourself can impact your relationships.
Do you have a big goal for your business this year? How will it feel not to achieve that goal? Not because it’s not important to you but because it's hard to keep your life and business going and stay the course with things when life throws you curveballs or you have too many things competing for your attention.
What if you could have a high level of support, accountability, strategy to ensure you will achieve your goals and keep you on track. The Incubator is the answer to your overwhelmed and distracted prayers! You can still join this week so don’t delay! Check Out The Incubator.
About Cerita Yvonne:
Cerita is a relational trauma expert. She is also a therapist, trauma coach, Certified Clinical Trauma Professional, hypnotherapist, and hope dealer. As a recovered codependent perfectionist, sexual abuse survivor, and retired superwoman transformed into a super woman.
Cerita specializes in helping Black women heal the heartbreak of trauma through authentic self-love.
[00:00:00] Amber Hawley: Business owners are increasingly being pulled in so many directions, feeling like they aren't reaching their full potential in business and life despite their type A ways. With my background as a therapist, entrepreneur, and as a.com dropout with adhd, I interview and coach high achieving business owners like you who wanna stop struggling for.
[00:00:21] Amber Hawley: By using psychological systems strategies and the occasional care confrontation, this is the easily distracted entrepreneur, your place to slay, overwhelm, perfectionism, and shiny object syndrome so that you can get done what matters most to you.
[00:00:40] Amber Hawley: Hello. Hello. My mavens of Monotasking . My word of the year is focus, and one of the things that is helping me focus is monotasking. And frankly, I think we have to retrain ourselves to monotask, right? Like it used to be such a badge of honor to be able to multitask, but we realize at the expense of.
[00:01:06] Amber Hawley: Quality often, and also a sense of peace within our own brain . So that is what I'm working on. . So as part of both focus and having one thing, I have themed all of my months in 2023. Each month there is a unifying theme, and this month it's all about connections. That can be your connection with yourself, your relationships, or it can be networking.
[00:01:33] Amber Hawley: Connection is a core need for all humans in the incubator. This month we have two separate people coming in to do workshops. We have Lexi Soos who did a powerful workshop about connecting and aligning to ourselves. And on February 9th, Jasmine Haley is coming in and talking about how to connect to our audiences in a powerful way when doing public speaking.
[00:01:59] Amber Hawley: Later this month in the Inner Circle, I'm doing a training on creating your Dream 100. It's about intentional connection and relationship building. So you see the theme there, right? ? It's making my life easier, I swear. Something about having. Such clarity really makes a lot of the decision making and scheduling and everything feel super clear, so I'm loving it.
[00:02:24] Amber Hawley: That is also why today's interview is perfect for this month. I spoke with Sarita, Yvonne, and Sarita is a relational trauma expert. She is a trauma coach, certified clinical trauma professional. Hypnotherapist and Hope Dealer . I mean, don't you love that? She is a hope dealer. Brilliant. I love it. So when we recorded this, we, the thought was to release it in December, but you know how things sometimes go and when I realized I was theming February as my month of connections, this was the perfect conversation for this month.
[00:03:04] Amber Hawley: This week the incubator officially started. It is my six month hybrid coaching program with tons and tons of support and I wouldn't be doing my neuro spicy people. Right. If I didn't let you know that you can still join this week, cuz I know sometimes we leave things till last minutes and we forget . So I want you to ask yourself, do you ever say any of these?
[00:03:30] Amber Hawley: I have big goals for 2023, but I'm also scared that I won't actually reach them. I feel like I'm not meeting my full potential. I have so much to do, but I have a hard time of knowing where to start. Or maybe you say to yourself, I'm working way too much for what I'm accomplishing. Or I feel constantly behind and I don't even know what I did all day.
[00:03:55] Amber Hawley: If you're saying any of these things to yourself, the incubator incubator might be the perfect thing for you. And if you feel ready to feel on top of things and wanna follow through on the things that matter to you while still having time for people who matter most to you, or maybe just more time to take naps, then head on over to amber holly.com/incubator for more information.
[00:04:19] Amber Hawley: So let's jump into my conversation with Sarita. Hello Sarita. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:04:27] Cerita Yvonne: Thank you. It's an honor to be
[00:04:28] Amber Hawley: here, . I, I have had the pleasure of meeting you in the last, I guess we've, I don't know. It's only been like four or five weeks. We're both in a group together. Mm-hmm. . And I was just telling you before we hit record, that you are also a therapist, but as you were talking about this, this group that you are doing and kind of working on clarifying how to talk to people about it, you, you said the F word.
[00:04:56] Amber Hawley: I don't know why I just said the F word instead of actually saying it. And I was like, oh, my people
[00:05:04] Amber Hawley: And then as we have been in a group longer and talking about the work we do and the programs that we offer, I was, I just knew you would be the perfect person to have come on, because we are rolling into the holidays. By the time this one, this episode airs and. As a therapist who you know as a couple's therapist and individual therapist for adults, we know what a struggle the holidays can be and what a strain they can put on relationships, and this is your expertise.
[00:05:34] Amber Hawley: So maybe first, before we get into it, can you tell people a little bit more about the work you do? Absolutely.
[00:05:40] Cerita Yvonne: Thank you. Um, so I am a relational trauma expert, a therapist that basically deals in relationships because relationships are such a significant part of our lives. For many of us. It determines our identity, how we feel, how we operate in the world.
[00:05:59] Cerita Yvonne: And I think that many of. , we kind of recognize the value of relationships, but I don't think that we really understand the impact, and that's, that's been my life's journey that has led me to becoming a therapist, to understanding my relationship with myself and everyone else.
[00:06:17] Amber Hawley: Yes. I mean, don't you think as therapists, I feel like I'm talking about that all the time, and as a couple's therapist, I say, The relationship you have with your significant other either helps you become the best version of yourself because it like supports you to grow.
[00:06:34] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Or it causes you so much distress that it, it can really bring down the quality of your life. Right. So I think it's, it's so important. And, and you don't just talk about the significant other, you also talk, like you said, about our relationship to ourselves, where, which we know as therapists is where it all starts,
[00:06:52] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. And then those around us. Yeah. So you know, I guess you talk a lot about you work with women who have been through trauma and you help people heal from toxic relationships, right? Absolutely, I do. Can you talk a little bit about. Kind of what you're seeing in the work that you do, like the biggest struggle, so many of our, most of our listeners are women.
[00:07:19] Amber Hawley: We do have men that listen though and we love them. But can you talk about what is kind of like the number one thing that you see women struggling with? In their relationships.
[00:07:31] Cerita Yvonne: I think it's a wonderful question because it is what led me to becoming a therapist. This understanding. This is what determined my whole spiritual journey and what I, the biggest thing that I've learned is that many of us have adapted to what is
[00:07:52] Cerita Yvonne: We now know is this functional relat. Because so many women have experienced what we call, I know, you know, parentification, meaning we are taught out. Exactly. . I'm not
[00:08:04] Amber Hawley: only a a member. I'm, I might be the president. You too. I'm the president, the vp.
[00:08:11] Cerita Yvonne: Let's just, cuz I know you like to have this conversational style, so let's just do that.
[00:08:15] Cerita Yvonne: Yeah, so many of us have been taught that in order to navigate the world, we have to be independent because many of us were raised by women who, NEC didn't necessarily have agency in their own lives. And so it's like you gotta be able to figure out on your own. You gotta stand on your own, basically. You have to be ultra independent.
[00:08:34] Cerita Yvonne: And so that helped us to have a lot of drive, a lot of ambition, a lot of desires to, you know, achieve in life. But what I had to. The hard way, and after many dollars spent , is that I did not have an authentic relationship with myself, and so therefore I couldn't have authentic relationships with anyone else.
[00:08:57] Cerita Yvonne: Mm-hmm. , I my, I lived my whole life behind this mask of perfection. So it's like everything was about striving, everything was about doing. And so how that showed up in my relationship was my self-worth came from what I did for other people and not for who I was. Mm. But because I learned to strive and to be perfectionist, I didn't even recognize my own denial.
[00:09:21] Cerita Yvonne: And I feel that that is one of the toughest things for us to break. because you know how to strive in the world. You know how to start businesses, you know how to get degrees. You know how to do all these things, , and you don't understand. What has helped you to do some of those things is because you've been able to deny sleep, pain, hunger,
[00:09:38] Cerita Yvonne: You've been able to deny the things Absolutely. That were obstacles. , but then that same pattern shows up in your relationship. So you deny bad behavior, you deny red flags, you deny your participation in allowing these things to happen in your relationships. I know that was a long ass
[00:09:55] Amber Hawley: answer, . No, that was perfect.
[00:09:57] Amber Hawley: I mean, cuz I think you hit on all the stuff that I'm sure so many people are like, oh, yep, yep, yep. That's me. Because, you know, Most of the people I think, who listen are, would identify as like high achieving perfectionistic, type A go, go go. People. Yes. And I think you're right. Like I think that piece of not understanding are part in it too, of like you're in relationships with people and even if you are like, oh, I have a good relationship, and then, but then you're feeling like, but I always have to perform, like I always have to be on.
[00:10:33] Amber Hawley: and I can't really rely on my partner. Yeah. And you're not really sure why. So you're like, is it them? Is it me? Yeah. And there, but like you said, if, if you, if you make mistakes or if you are not doing for them, then there's this feeling of I'm not good enough that comes up. Absolutely. So, and it's so crushing, right.
[00:10:55] Amber Hawley: Because then you feel like I'll never be good enough for anyone.
[00:10:59] Cerita Yvonne: Absolutely. And then if we don't have the tools to be able to work through that, that will just be something else that we will have to hide, that we will have to cover, that we will have to try to achieve through and accomplish more or try to fix in some capacity instead of just being with.
[00:11:18] Cerita Yvonne: Instead of owning the feelings, processing the feelings, or even understanding that a lot of our unworthiness, a lot of these issues that can come up, and I really just say feelings, A lot of them are more emotional flashbacks from the past. A lot of them have nothing to do with your identity, but what you've been through in the past, and now it's being retried in your relationships because you've been hiding behind a mask of perfectionism
[00:11:42] Cerita Yvonne: Mm.
[00:11:43] Amber Hawley: Yes. And you. The neuro divergent community, even though people who listen are not always a part of that community. Mm-hmm. . But there are so many that are, yes. Masking is such a big thing anyway, of already trying to cover up or fit, have their brains fit in. To this way, to this world that really isn't built for them or supporting of them.
[00:12:06] Amber Hawley: So there's already these layers of this shit, right? And then you add in like any traumas or all, like you're saying. Absolutely. All that past stuff. And then you're like in relationship with somebody and yeah, you can feel like. I'm not getting my needs met, but sometimes, like you said, you're not even sure like, is it okay to have this need?
[00:12:27] Amber Hawley: Is that's what's happening? Am I not my need met? Like, you know, that kind of thing. Right.
[00:12:31] Cerita Yvonne: That's it. Absolutely. I think. When you talk about the neuro divergent community, it's . I think that we all are part of this community because it's a part of our culture in a one form or fashion because we are all easily distracted in the age of social media and I mean, how many streaming platforms are there anyway.
[00:12:51] Cerita Yvonne: And so for us, we have the ability to use any and everything in order to distract ourselves from our own. Right. And so I think that is one of our go-tos as human beings, and we have a culture that kind of encourages that. And so, oh hundred percent, we have so many things that we can use in order to avoid our reality and our relationships that we usually have to.
[00:13:19] Cerita Yvonne: Clear our schedules in order to clear our mind in order to get to the root. And I think that can be challenging for some of us because I know I used to get my sense of esteem through how busy I was. Mm-hmm. , even if I was distracted, even if I was half-ass in it, like I was still doing .
[00:13:36] Amber Hawley: Yes. Well, and that's the, yeah, it's on the doing, not the being.
[00:13:40] Amber Hawley: And it's, and it's painful to sit with that stuff. Who wants to do that shit? Like, you're like, no, this feels terrible. Why would I wanna clear my schedule? And I think that's why we have seen so many relationships, even long-term relationships crumble during Covid. Yeah. Because I tell my clients all the time, like, Your normal coping mechanisms weren't really available to you, or a lot of them weren't.
[00:14:02] Amber Hawley: Right? Like a few were, you know, like Netflix and drinking
[00:14:10] Amber Hawley: Exactly. But that's the problem, right? Is. You know, people were used to being so busy and out, and so then all of a sudden they're stuck together and having to spend time together and realizing like this isn't working, which sometimes it's just like they need to work on it. Right? Or fundamentally, we're in.
[00:14:31] Amber Hawley: We have such different values and this probably hasn't been working for a long time, but now I'm faced with it. Right. Have you noticed that too in the work that you're doing with people?
[00:14:40] Cerita Yvonne: Do you mean specifically with
[00:14:42] Amber Hawley: Covid or just general? That that, yeah. In the last couple years there's been like an uptick of people being Aw.
[00:14:46] Amber Hawley: Aware of it.
[00:14:47] Cerita Yvonne: Absolutely. I think that, see, you know, when we are in dysfunctional patterns, I know you know that there's a dance. So it's like there's a way that we behave, there's a way that we react, there's a way that we cope, there's a way that we act absolutely don't deal with conflict. we avoid. And so, mm-hmm.
[00:15:07] Cerita Yvonne: So Covid forced us to deal with our shit in a lot of ways, or really look for some new, uh, easily, easily accessible ways of distracting and avoiding. And so I think that a lot of relationships. who that probably should have ended a long time ago. . Yeah. People weren't forced to deal with themselves in a, in a very different way, and I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing because.
[00:15:34] Cerita Yvonne: We all listen here. If I will say that when it comes to co I was about to be all therapists, you know, therapize you. But the reality is I think our mortality was like front and center with Covid. Yeah. And then people were looking like, do I wanna fucking deal with this for another 30 years?
[00:15:55] Cerita Yvonne: This gonna be the end of the world. Like, you know, I got a second chance at life. I, me, I'm happy I can go be happy and be free and so can this other person. And if that means I got to deal with me, I'm okay with that.
[00:16:07] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. Yes. And what if, and then it's like, what if we had to go through this again?
[00:16:12] Amber Hawley: Like, and you didn't make that change. Right? ? Like . I, I agree. And you know what's funny is you were selling that person for toilet
[00:16:19] Cerita Yvonne: paper .
[00:16:22] Amber Hawley: Exactly. I, I, I even said that this shows up, uh, this showed up for me, even in my team of. Finally hitting like that breaking point of like, fuck it, I am done dealing with shit with like somebody who I should have fired a long time ago,
[00:16:37] Amber Hawley: And so like, it was even in those, you know, realms, right? And it was, yeah, cuz it's just, yeah, you get to the point of life's short, this doesn't, this is just too much and. Yeah. Is it worth it? Right. And like you said, not every relationship is meant to be and yes. And sometimes like you're talking about, we are choosing partners out of our dysfunction, not out of our health.
[00:17:04] Amber Hawley: And so a lot of times, yeah, and, and sometimes I've had clients where they both are willing to work on that and really like give it that chance and they grow together. Yes. But often that is not the case. Often it is like one person is like, okay. I'm, I'm ready to change. Yeah. And, and then they realize like, yeah, this who I was when we got together is not, I have more health now and I need something that
[00:17:30] Cerita Yvonne: fits that.
[00:17:31] Cerita Yvonne: Absolutely. I mean, the reality is, you know, , depending on our life situation and circumstances, a lot of us have learned how to be numb. Mm-hmm. . So if I'm, if I'm shut down, if I am not in tune with my own feelings and I'm just going along just to get along, just to have a roommate, if a person is choosing that, I mean, that is our choice.
[00:17:53] Cerita Yvonne: But a lot of times we don't recognize how we. subconsciously, chosenness. And we know the capacity of the other person. We know that they ain't got it to give . We know that they're not interested in doing the work. I'm just interested in doing what we do or what you do for me. Yep. And sometimes we have to make that that choice to choose ourselves and allow people if they want to be a part of the process.
[00:18:16] Cerita Yvonne: Yes. And if not, we have to be willing to set boundaries and take care of ourselves.
[00:18:22] Amber Hawley: Yep. The B word, we knew it was coming.
[00:18:28] Amber Hawley: The thing that we all, like, we all know, like I think people know on an intellectual level, but then when it comes into practice is like, what does that look like? How do I do that? And like you said, it's scary as hell, right? Because even if you. Trying to like have healthier relationships. The setting boundaries for some people is so triggering to the other person's stuff, and then it just kind of blows everything up.
[00:18:54] Amber Hawley: Right.
[00:18:55] Cerita Yvonne: I, you know, it's interesting because for me, growing up, like no one taught, used the word boundaries. It was like, do what I tell you to do, . Pretty much that was it. And so I did not understand as an adult, because of my own childhood experience, my own trauma. It was not only necessary for me to hold and have boundaries, but it was my right.
[00:19:22] Cerita Yvonne: It was my right. I didn't know that because of my experience taught me how to people please, how to submit, how to sacrifice, how to fawn in order to get my needs met. And it was interesting for me to learn when I learned about trauma that, oh, I was being low-key manipulative because I didn't know how to directly ask for what I needed.
[00:19:46] Cerita Yvonne: So how this, that giving in, that doing this was me, my version of narcissistic traits, of emotional immaturity, trying to get my knees met by trying to be good, trying to be a loyal, trying to prove my love and my worth. And it only about me. Stress, stress, stress and
[00:20:09] Amber Hawley: more. Absolutely. I know I think , I used to jokingly say when I was younger, like, I've decided to use my powers for good instead of evil because , cause it's like you said, it was, it was never with like an intent to hurt people, but it was an intent to.
[00:20:24] Amber Hawley: To get what I want. Mm-hmm. , but through people pleasing through like Yeah. Fawn, like fawning admiration, right? Yes. And being perfect, being like everything they needed you to be. And it was almost like, well, I could be that everything they needed me to be and then everything will be okay, that I'll get the love I want.
[00:20:47] Cerita Yvonne: Right? That is exactly what we're doing, but I don't think we're conscious of it at all. We think that this is who I am. I hear people say that all the time, like I'm an empath. And you might be, I hear them say, I'm loyal and you are. I'm a good, and yes you are, but you've also learned to be invisible in a relationship.
[00:21:08] Cerita Yvonne: You talking about this person that doesn't give you your needs met, you act like you ain't got none, you not there. Yes. You don't communicate what you want and what you need.
[00:21:20] Amber Hawley: Yeah. And you. I guess, well, two things are coming up for me. When you talk about the boundaries, like you said, I don't re, I don't even know when that word was, came into my vernacular, but I'm not aware of it.
[00:21:32] Amber Hawley: But I think growing up. Given the volatility of my household, I what we learned even in like extended family patterns. Mm-hmm. a boundary was really a wall. And I see this a lot with clients. The only boundary is a wall. Like, now you have fucking pushed me to the edge and now here's the wall, right? So I cut you off or you're in my life.
[00:21:52] Amber Hawley: Those are the two, like it comes up and down sometimes like a drawbridge. , but it's a wall. And that's my, that was my, I think that was our version of boundaries, right? Like when we've had enough, we have the wall. Yes. And so putting up a, a healthy boundary that's saying, I still want relationship with you, but I want, but I also need to respect me.
[00:22:13] Amber Hawley: And what's going on for me and my needs is scary as fuck.
[00:22:17] Cerita Yvonne: Well, you say this scary as fuck that I, I agree. But I also think it requires you to know yourself cuz then you have to know what you want, know what you need. You have to be in tune with your feelings or practice. Okay? Because I don't say have to cuz that's perfectionistic.
[00:22:32] Cerita Yvonne: So being aware of your body, of what you're feeling, of knowing what you know. Cuz a lot of times, especially as women, we've been taught to doubt what we know to question. Yeah, because you know, we were taught how to do, and so we feel feelings and then we'll try to justify it or we'll make excuses for other people.
[00:22:50] Cerita Yvonne: So when you know what, who you are, what you want, what you like, what you don't like, when you honor your own intuition, when you honor the gut feelings that said, oh, they just crossed the fucking boundary. You ain't even got to know the word boundary to recognize when someone is hurting you. Okay? Yes, , yes.
[00:23:08] Cerita Yvonne: And when you can call that out within yourself. while not making other people responsible. Mm-hmm. , when you are clear and you say, . If you do this, then I will do this. Cuz boundaries are about what you going to do, about how you gonna respond about if you are going to remove yourself or not. Yes. Boundaries are for you.
[00:23:27] Cerita Yvonne: So when you get clear about you, then you're like, oh, okay, well I don't have to put up with this shit .
[00:23:35] Amber Hawley: I'm making another decision. Yes. And and I think too, it's not just knowing. So I think there is that process, right? And then we figure. This is what I'm needing. This is what, like I'm craving, this is what my soul needs.
[00:23:48] Amber Hawley: And then being able to feel that without then when you're in conversation or in relationship with somebody, oh, that's the good part. Yeah. Saying, oh, I'm too much. I'm too needy. Maybe I'm being unrealistic. Like, you know, like I think that that's the part that comes in that. That like safety part of our brain that's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's, that's not safe.
[00:24:13] Amber Hawley: Cuz if that's not how we grew up, right? Like that experience comes up that like first there's that process of figuring it out for yourself and then it's that putting it out there and then not allowing yourself to be convinced that somehow that makes you like those things needy too much. Whatever.
[00:24:31] Amber Hawley: Which unfortunately we hear all the time as women, I mean, I think we're constantly told this right?
[00:24:37] Cerita Yvonne: Yeah. So this is it. Now, it, it makes, when you said it's hard as fuck, see I've, you know, I've grown a little bit. Okay. We, I, listen, we always have room to grow. And for a moment they're just a brief moment. I forgot when it was hard as fuck for me, but thank you for reminding me,
[00:24:54] Cerita Yvonne: Okay. Cause you know, I, you never wanna forget where you came from and you know, Brene Brown calls that the shame. And even, you know, when you look at, um, any literature on shame, um, going back to like the 1950s, that's a big part of it. And the reason why I'm always talking about trauma is because some of us had childhoods where we.
[00:25:16] Cerita Yvonne: You know, we had our basic needs met. You ate, you had a room, you know, , the lights were on, you had clothes. Um, but we may have not gotten or received the emotional attention, the emotional nurturance, the emotional validation that your feelings, your thoughts, your being matters. Because that's how we learn to feel secure within ourselves.
[00:25:37] Cerita Yvonne: And so what I do talk about all the time is that, and, and this is cuz I. Continue. I, I do. I did the work on myself first, but it's a continuous practice. Let me be clear that I recognize that when I felt like I was enough, when I felt guilty for setting boundaries, that was my old childhood trauma coming up.
[00:25:58] Cerita Yvonne: That was the trigger. That was the part that was the parts of me that learned, oh, no. , you don't get love when you speak up. Oh, no. You have to be quiet in order to be validated. And so these parts of me that are just trying to do what is what they, that part of me learned was best. It's showing up and it's trying to jump in the driver's seat, but oh no.
[00:26:21] Cerita Yvonne: 12 year old Sarita. Cannot run my relationships. No part of me that learned that, excuse me, that you have to do that, you have to give, that you have to be quiet because else you will be punished. Oh, I, I had to learn. And it's a process to love that part of myself and to recognize that, oh, I get to make the decision as the adult how I'm going to deal with this.
[00:26:45] Cerita Yvonne: I can honor my feelings of insecurity or guilt or doubt, and. Set fucking boundaries. . Yes.
[00:26:54] Amber Hawley: Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's the thing, I guess that's the hard part, is those old tapes and voices come up. Yeah. And I think too, like you said, it's always, it's a continuous process, especially when we go through hard things.
[00:27:08] Amber Hawley: Like sometimes we can find ourselves, I don't wanna say like regressing, but we go, we do, we've are vo more vol, more vulnerable and tender. And so that stuff comes up more and, and I think. Like, there are times where, you know, cause I talk about being like a people pleaser too and, and you know, the perfectionism and all of that peace, all of that stuff from my childhood is still there.
[00:27:33] Amber Hawley: But there are some areas in my life I'm really adept at setting those boundaries. And I'm, yeah, I'm good as gold. Like I have that on lock, you know? Yes. And then there's other areas where it becomes harder and it, and that is also influenced by like what's going on in my. Right. Like if you have like a falling out with a major person in your life, yeah.
[00:27:54] Amber Hawley: It's gonna be a little bit harder to set those boundaries with the other people sometimes, because it's like, oh gosh, now I'm, you know, like my, my, my network is less and so I might risk losing any support. Right. So I guess. And, and again, like when you practice it enough, you learn like, okay, I can feel that acknowledged.
[00:28:15] Amber Hawley: I don't have to give into it. Right? Yeah. But I think that's something that people don't talk about and that's where I think like people don't always get the impact of like, we can still be healthy people and grow, but that doesn't mean we're going to be immune from feeling or having those old tapes.
[00:28:32] Cerita Yvonne: No, I absolutely agree with you.
[00:28:34] Cerita Yvonne: I think that, and this is part of, you know, my whole spiel is that we have to normalize being human. Yes. Because being human is complex. Yeah. You can feel happy and feel feelings of grief. Yes. You can feel excitement and out like it is ridiculous to think that, oh yeah, I've done all my healing work and I'm never gonna get sad again.
[00:28:58] Cerita Yvonne: And so you're going to feel complex feelings. And the thing is, if we're numb, we won't even recognize it. We won't know it. And especially if we've got some addictions, like maybe distraction, what you'll do is you'll interpret your feelings, your vulnerable feelings as, oh, I need to binge watch. Oh, I'm having a craving of fill in the blank.
[00:29:20] Cerita Yvonne: So you are not even consciously aware because your protective system is on high alert. Like, oh no we don't. We don't do vulnerable here. . What we do, that's what we do, taco. And so mine, so. Really understanding the, the, the vulnerability is, I think honestly, I think that's key to not just the healing process, but successful businesses, successful relationships.
[00:29:49] Cerita Yvonne: Because when you can honor your feelings and be like, okay, I can feel this sadness and not become, The sadness. Mm-hmm. , you can honor how you feel, you can acknowledge it and still comfort yourself. I call it being the holder and being the held so you can experience yourself, comforting yourself, and holding yourself.
[00:30:10] Cerita Yvonne: While you are the one doing the holding, it is possible. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what it means to be a grownup. Like you can't be support yourself and acknowledge yourself without invalidating, without dismissing, without devaluing. And you can still function throughout the day. Mm-hmm. Or you can say, Hey, I need a timeout.
[00:30:29] Cerita Yvonne: And as an adult I get to take. That's okay too, right? Because you're honoring your own boundaries or your own window of tolerance. And
[00:30:38] Amber Hawley: I think too, when you do that, when you're consciously choosing that, yeah, you're, there's a different level there, but I love that holder and held like you can simultaneously be both.
[00:30:48] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Like, I think that's really powerful because Yeah. The thing is our go-to usually is numbing of some sort. Right. Like to, I just don't wanna feel this shit. And some of our ways of numbing are very like socially acceptable. Like workaholism. Absolutely. Right. Like over care taking for others.
[00:31:07] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. You know, working yourself to exhaustion so you can't even, you don't even have the place to think about it. Absolutely. , but I think that's also why even though we saw a lot of like relationship like, uh, explosion go down the hill in 2020, I actually think the end of 2021, in 2022, we saw more because initially people were numbing and a lot of people, not everyone, obviously some people really got super healthy and worked on their stuff, which was amazing.
[00:31:35] Amber Hawley: I'm so impressed by people who do that in those hard times. But it was like, oh yeah. So like you said, the drinking or, oh, I could smoke pot all day. You know, some, I like thinking about clients say, because it's like, I don't have to go anywhere or drive or anything and you know, or it would be like, or is it sex or is it shopping?
[00:31:54] Amber Hawley: Is it, you know, whatever. Is it Reddit? I don't know. I just had to throw that in there. Some people really spend a lot of time on Reddit and Quora . Yes, exactly. So I think, yeah, it. And even recognizing I have this strong impulse to X, whatever that thing is, like checking it out like, okay, why do I feel that?
[00:32:15] Amber Hawley: Why do I feel that overwhelming pull to do that when I was gonna do like something maybe healthier for yourself or I was gonna make it. Different choice. You know, you start the day, um, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna use like drinking. Cuz that's a very common one, right? And people, you know, there's a million memes about it in this last few years.
[00:32:33] Amber Hawley: But like, I'm gonna start the day, okay, today I'm gonna be, make better choices. I exercise, I did this, something shitty happens and now you're like, fuck that I'm having a drink. You're like, I wasn't gonna drink, I'm not gonna drink during the week. Like I have a. I know a lot of people that do that, and they're like, forget it, I'm gonna have that drink.
[00:32:49] Amber Hawley: Right. And, and realizing, oh, that poll, you could, like you said, you can make that choice, but realizing that habit and that pull is to keep you in a place so that you don't have to acknowledge what's happening. That's it. That's it. Yeah. I.
[00:33:04] Cerita Yvonne: I think when we're triggered, and this is why it can feel hard as fuck as you said, to do the work because when we're triggered, that is an opportunity.
[00:33:16] Cerita Yvonne: I'm not saying it's always easy, cuz I know , that that is an indication that there's something actually, it's an invitation. Okay. Every irritation is an invitation. Hmm. And so when that invitation comes up, it don't feel good. A lot of times it feels uncom. . And so what happens is we, if I've already built the habit of escaping.
[00:33:38] Cerita Yvonne: That's not only, not only on my trigger to uncomfortable feelings, but then automatically my coping skills, my dysfunctional coping skills kick in. So now I have the craving and this, when that craving comes, you don't give a damn. That whole to-do list, what you did this morning, that, that part of you, you the only drive that we have, and this is human, what it means to be human.
[00:34:04] Cerita Yvonne: Mm-hmm. is to decrease the pain, to decrease the anxiety in that moment. Yeah. We can worry about the consequences later and then that's probably gonna trigger me to do the same thing that I just mad at myself about again, . And so that's why I think we have to have a lot of compass. But we also have to have or be willing to get some additional tools in our toolbox for when we do get triggered, because life will always happen.
[00:34:30] Cerita Yvonne: Life. Life, be life in. And so there will be people, our relationship circumstances that will trigger us to feelings that are un. Comfortable. Yeah. But if we continue to escape, we will continue to attract things, sabotage ourselves, sabotage our relationships. Because you can't numb without consequences.
[00:34:54] Amber Hawley: Yes.
[00:34:55] Amber Hawley: And I, you know, like I've had my friend Kate Stillman talks about. , and I'm sure many people talk about it, but I I heard her say it . So she talks about when we're in like addiction, which, you know, is a version of that numbing or escaping, right? Absolutely. It's, it narrows our world. So then our, our world becomes so small that that's all we see because we don't, we aren't utilizing all these other tools and coping mechanisms and, and ways of getting support.
[00:35:23] Amber Hawley: So that's part of it is then we can get so narrow that we don't even see the other options. And then I know like something I became aware of is I diversified my ways of numbing and escaping so that it felt healthier. , because I would, cuz I'm not gonna be a hypocrite. I constantly, I mean, I'm a human right?
[00:35:40] Amber Hawley: But I would say to clients like, You know, you can't just have one coping mechanism because then like, that's like too much of anything is not great, right? Like, and it eventually wears out. And so like, we gotta, you know, cuz you know, you gotta meet people where they're at. So we're helping them on the journey.
[00:35:57] Amber Hawley: Absolutely. And so then it was like, because even I had that moment where all of a sudden I was, I cannot watch anymore tv and I freaking love tv. So I, I mean, I power watched Marvel movies over and over and over in the beginning of the pandemic, and then I hit a point of like, I can't watch shit anymore.
[00:36:12] Amber Hawley: Like I'm done, you know? And so, but it's like if you only have that one thing, and so like initially I think I, not to say I don't have healthy things, I have healthy things I have incorporated that are not escape. Um, and I am fortunate to have friends that I can be so vulnerable with. And not worry.
[00:36:33] Amber Hawley: That's very healing because then I, I get real and they can give me the hard feedback. I think that's help, like it's incrementally building that up. It's being vulnerable with other people that are unknown or untrustworthy or like, or even like, they're trustworthy, but you're not sure. , but, but yeah, like sometimes I think we just diversify our escape patterns.
[00:36:55] Amber Hawley: I don't know. Is that something you see at all? Mm-hmm. or is Edge? Just me. I agree.
[00:36:59] Cerita Yvonne: I agree with you. I think we have, um, I, and I definitely know for me, I've had a few Okay. and so that, how do you think I became a relational trauma expert, honey? Because I had a lot of trauma and a lot of ridiculousness going on that had no other explanation.
[00:37:16] Cerita Yvonne: Yeah. And so I have of. Co I was co-dependent. I was, um, I'm a sexual, sexual abuse survivor, so hypersexuality was in my toolbox and perfectionism. Absolutely. And see the thing is about human beings is I attracted people who were like me, so they were validating my bullshit .
[00:37:39] Amber Hawley: So there were things that, isn't that cause your twenties
[00:37:44] Amber Hawley: Isn't that what we're supposed to do? ,
[00:37:47] Cerita Yvonne: you know, we were laughing at our ridiculousness together, like , . It was normal, you know? It was normal for us. Yeah. And the thing is, what we're talking about is, I wanna be clear, and I know I, I know your listeners know this, but I just wanna say it. Is none of what we're talking about has meant to pathologize what it means to be human.
[00:38:07] Cerita Yvonne: What it means to cope, because survival is like one on one. Like you gotta survive. That's basic. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Yeah. And then you can move to thriving. And so I think that her toolbox, when we haven't been given a proper toolbox, We just have like shit that we make up or things that we're taught or things that we have seen to try to get by.
[00:38:28] Cerita Yvonne: And then you realize, oh, only the only tool I got is a hammer, so I'm just beaten every damn thing and everything doesn't require smashing. You know, so I need some different tools, you know, I might need some pliers, . And so, um, I think we do. Have to create safe spaces where we can truly just be seen and be heard, because I think there's something to be sad for.
[00:38:51] Cerita Yvonne: Self honesty. Yeah. Well, you can just be honest. Like I've been doing some things to try to numb, but this shit is not making me happy. In fact, it's making me feel worse about myself because I feel like I'm completely out of control. So when you can just be honest with who you are, where you are, how you are without shame.
[00:39:09] Cerita Yvonne: Without shame. Mm-hmm. without judgment, that can be so freeing. And then you open yourself up to attract people and to have relationships where you can be vulnerable, because that's what we want at the end of the day. We want intimacy. We want vulnerability. I mean, I just had it with my cheesecake, you know what I'm saying?
[00:39:30] Cerita Yvonne: because there was no other safe space. And so that was my relationship. That was my goal too, because listen, Food for me was dependable. I knew if I ate this cupcake, I was going to feel better. Mm-hmm. , because that's what I was going for. Not necessarily the cupcake, but the feeling that the cupcake gave.
[00:39:49] Cerita Yvonne: And so when you understand that you are, you are wanting connection, you're wanting relationship, and when you allow yourself to have that, it makes it so much easier to fill up your toolbox. It really
[00:40:00] Amber Hawley: does. Yes. Yes. And I like that point you make. Also, we can't put pressure on ourselves to go faster than we can go because no, even those things, like we we're acknowledging it, right?
[00:40:11] Amber Hawley: Like you're aware like, oh, eating nachos every single day is probably not best for my health. Or , you know, doesn't necessarily make me feel good. , but right now that's all I can do. And so that's okay. Right? Like as an example. And then it's like I made shoes. I, I, this is how I always kind of talk to clients about things too.
[00:40:31] Amber Hawley: It's like if 10 times outta 10, you would've chose nachos. That's just the example I'm gonna use right now. , and then all of a sudden, Nine times out of 10 you choose nachos. Then seven times out of 10, that is actually you working towards health. That isn't like, what's wrong with you? Why are you still eating nachos?
[00:40:49] Amber Hawley: Right? Like it's about incrementally growing towards that. No, and you will always, I will always eat nachos. Like that doesn't mean I'm still unhealthy because there's a difference between this being my only outlet to feel good, like you said, to fill me up and being something fun I do for myself because I enjoy it.
[00:41:07] Amber Hawley: Be and. In like a moderate moderation kind of way. Right?
[00:41:11] Cerita Yvonne: Absolutely. And I just wanna be clear and a, and add that these dysfunctional coping skills that we, we all as humans have at one point in our life or another, they do not diminish your self-worth. Yeah. So if you are eating the A nachos seven out of 10 times or 10 out of 10 times, you are still a worthy, lovable human being.
[00:41:35] Cerita Yvonne: Yeah. And when we can detach our worth from all of these external things, whether there's culture, use them as good, whether we view them as good or not. when we can just practice and I say practice cuz I think it's a practice. It is just owning our worth. Because it's fundamental. It's in it's inherent to who we are.
[00:41:56] Cerita Yvonne: Then I think it becomes, you know, easier to recognize, okay, I'm making choices and I understand these choices have consequences, but I'm still worthy. Yes.
[00:42:07] Amber Hawley: Yeah. And, and it's hard to like, well really believing that, I think integrating that and truly saying like, no matter. Choices I make, mistakes I may make, patterns I may continue.
[00:42:21] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Inherently I still have worth and value. And that's, that never changes, right? Yeah. No matter what the external is. And, and I think too, if we're. Because I do see this with, you know, we're very smart, capable people. Sometimes we do things that aren't healthy for us but are socially acceptable. Yes. And so it's so much easier to justify in our mind staying with that stuff.
[00:42:47] Amber Hawley: Because, because it's like, well look it, I, everyone thinks I'm great and so I don't even have to question my worthiness cuz everyone sees. Whether that's, I'm, I'm thinking about workaholism and exercise, especially I know there are others, or care over care taking people pleasing. Yeah. Being nice, you know, that kind of thing.
[00:43:06] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Yeah, I think, I don't know. That's, to me, the, the, it's the integration and like having that be, that's a non-negotiable, like that's a non, that's not even a question. Like that's to me, like when you can get to that place, you know, like you said, life will be life in, that's, I, that's gonna be a, that has to be a quote card on one of our social media posts.
[00:43:28] Amber Hawley: I'm telling you. I love that. And we're human. Yes.
[00:43:33] Cerita Yvonne: Yeah. Yes. And I noticed when you said that you touched your heart. Mm-hmm. . And I think that is important for all of us to connect with our hearts in whatever way feels good and feels right to us. Because even if I have a coping skill that has made me a lot of money, like being a workaholic, oh the, that shit comes with some downsides.
[00:43:53] Cerita Yvonne: You can't tell me you a workaholic and you not stressed. You not exhausted. Your health is suffering. Come on now, .
[00:44:00] Amber Hawley: Our relationships are suffering. Yes, all
[00:44:02] Cerita Yvonne: of it. Big time. Yeah, big time. And so the, and because your relationships are suffering big time, you know, probably you're not the coolest person to be around.
[00:44:12] Cerita Yvonne: And so you will continue to work even more because people may not like you very much because when you're with them, you. Fully present. Yeah. You still working on work even though you're supposed to be off of work. So I think that recognizing that there are your benefits, your pros and your cons to everything, the consequences, and again, I, I.
[00:44:34] Cerita Yvonne: I have to go back to when we're honest about that because when we're honest about, okay, if I'm a workaholic and I've achieved success, am I living life? Am I enjoying life? Mm-hmm. , when I'm on my deathbed, will I say, You know, I wish I would've worked a hundred hours a week instead of 80 . I doubt it. . Yes.
[00:44:57] Cerita Yvonne: Yes. So I think we have to be able to look at ourselves completely, you know, as a, from a holistic perspective about how things are good, the coping skills, and the way that we operate in. or parts of our lives or our relationships suffering. Mm-hmm. so that we can seek balance, not necessarily that you have to change everything, but maybe balancing what is working so that you can have more joy.
[00:45:23] Cerita Yvonne: That's the bottom
[00:45:24] Amber Hawley: line. Yes. And that's gonna look different for everyone, right? Like Yeah. And I say too, I see this a lot, especially as I have a lot of clients going through breakups or they lost a loved one or, or something else. I'm like, well, of course you choose work because you feel, you feel confident, you feel good there.
[00:45:45] Amber Hawley: Like, so I, I'm not even putting that down as somebody who is, I like, I have to really keep in check my workaholic tendencies because that's one place where I could shine and feel really good, you know? And so it's, Understanding there's a reason why we choose it too, not just because you, you're somebody who's like avoiding and whatever.
[00:46:06] Amber Hawley: Like, there's lots of good reasons for it. So, and people are also doing really good work in the world, so it's not, they, like you said, it's not an all or nothing kind of thing. But, gosh, I, it's so funny cuz uh, you were like, what are we gonna talk about today, ? And apparently I did not see your email or phone call or text and I was like, oh, we're gonna just fly.
[00:46:27] Amber Hawley: We'll be good. It's interesting cuz my thinking. As, I feel like the holidays like so much comes up with relationships and boundaries because we feel a lot of sense of obligation. There's a lot of pressure, there's a lot going on, so we're extra stressed. It's harder to like take care of ourselves and say no, cuz people, you know, I get it, I do get it, but I, and I have so many clients and I'm like, that's okay.
[00:46:50] Amber Hawley: If you say you're gonna give into it, it's fine. You get to choose. But it's, they feel like they can't say no to things. So I thought, let's talk about that kind of stuff. , but this was so freaking valuable, where we went, and that's why I said let's go where we go. I do think I have to have you back because I think this would be a great, I think the relationship boundary stuff that we, that you and I could talk about in probably for like a February release, you know, like, oh, that'd be wonderful.
[00:47:17] Amber Hawley: You know, the V-Day . That would be wonderful. I, I'm welcome. You know, I love to theme sheds .
[00:47:25] Cerita Yvonne: Perfect. I am definitely down.
[00:47:27] Amber Hawley: Yeah. This was awesome. I mean, yeah, I think, I think again, like hopefully the takeaway is really. Taking that step back, looking at what's going on in your life, are, are the habits and things you're doing, are they depleting you or are they filling you up?
[00:47:43] Amber Hawley: Yeah. Do you feel disconnected from people? Do you feel like you can't ask for help or, or have needs of others? Does it feel like the relationship is tenuous? Those are things to look at. And then, you know, again, like it doesn't mean you have to throw a grenade in there and change everything. It, in fact, that won't work.
[00:48:01] Amber Hawley: But , but just. Start that self-awareness process and realize the impact, cuz that's something I say all the time and I love that you said it at the beginning. I think we do not understand the impact it has on our wellbeing and our lives.
[00:48:15] Cerita Yvonne: Yes. Everything you just said is I think the essence of. What we can consider when we are on this journey of creating healthy relationships with ourselves and with everyone else, and I think it's, you know, when you brought up the how you are feeling when people are making a request or even the demand and you know, creating that balance.
[00:48:38] Cerita Yvonne: I think as we move into the holiday, and I . This is, you know, tell me what you think about this, because I think it's important to be available, cuz this is a time when people want to be connected. Yeah. They want to, you know, they're open to relationships and relating and community, um, being open to what people are asking of you, but also have that same openness towards yourself and mm-hmm.
[00:49:04] Cerita Yvonne: being willing. If you find that, okay, I don't have the capacity or the energy, or I just don't fucking wanna do it, that you can set a boundary, yes. And you can set consequences to that boundary and you get to say no. You wanna say yes, say yes. And if you need a minute, if you need some time, give me a day.
[00:49:31] Cerita Yvonne: Check in with me tomorrow. You get to ask for that too. So you get to set the terms. So just consider that as we move into this holiday season, because the goal is not to begin the new year exhausted and depleted . That's not
[00:49:46] Amber Hawley: the goal Exactly. But we all roll in that way. We do. This is why I don't do a lot of , A lot of the, the work I do with people around like goals and like, uh, business stuff, I'm like, I don't.
[00:49:58] Amber Hawley: Count those first two weeks of January, because I think people Oh does are just recovering .
[00:50:02] Cerita Yvonne: A lot of us don't even count January at all. We're still writing the previous year's
[00:50:07] Amber Hawley: date. We don't. , touche, touche.
[00:50:09] Cerita Yvonne: We don't even, it takes a minute to
[00:50:12] Amber Hawley: set in . It does. It does. Yeah. You're like, whatever. I mean, there's the real start of the year and then there's like when I'm ready to start the year
[00:50:19] Amber Hawley: So that's a whole separate thing. Right. And then there's summer . Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, uh, I know we have to go, but I could keep talking to you forever. I feel like, uh, you had, you said so many powerful things. I can't wait to re-listen and also like for my team to grab some of those.
[00:50:37] Amber Hawley: Awesome. Like quotables. I love those because I think they are powerful. They speak to us on a different level and get, help us in those moments when we're feeling it, you know? So if people wanted to find out more information about you and the work you do, where can they. So,
[00:50:56] Cerita Yvonne: uh, my website is my name, sarita yon.com.
[00:51:00] Cerita Yvonne: If you are interested in kind of working through some of your relationship stuff, we'll call it stuff cuz we don't necessarily wanna call your relationship toxic right now, . And so if you have some relationship stuff, I am starting this new program that, uh, Amber mentioned initially and you can go there to get on the wait list.
[00:51:18] Cerita Yvonne: It's Heal on purpose today. On purpose today spelled just like it sounds.com. And I will add you to the list and you'll get some notification when it's
[00:51:29] Amber Hawley: available. Hmm. And I've seen the behind the scenes of this program and it sounds amazing. So, and it is the work you do all the time. So like the, you know, this shit
[00:51:40] Amber Hawley: I do. I do. We. all of the links in the show notes so that you can find them if you are driving or doing something else right now. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you again, Sarita, for coming on.
[00:51:52] Cerita Yvonne: Thank you so much for this opportunity and really I wanna thank you because it is conversations like this that help me to realize, cuz you know li listen, I'm black.
[00:52:01] Cerita Yvonne: You're not , but help me to realize all of us, that we are all humans. And when we have these conversations, we realize like, damn, we really are humans. Like we are experiencing the same thing. It may look different, the context. Yeah. You know, maybe different, but we're all experiencing this life together and so I thank you for this opportunity for us to come together as humans talk about embracing humanity and just being more of what we are.
[00:52:30] Cerita Yvonne: So I love you already. I hope we got you soon to say. I love you and I look forward to being back on the show again. Awesome.
